Landlord selling

quadrifoglio verde

So our landlord in the past few weeks has informed us verbally that he has to sell.
Property isn't on the market yet however we have found a new rental from the start of July so we have given him notice to terminate our lease from that date which he was very agreeable to.

I have so far let in two auctioneers to value, both of whom suggested that we ask for a reduction in our rent while it is for sale as it makes things run smoothly on their end. Didn't take the piss or anything and asked the landlord for 15% off over the next two months.

He has came back and refused to do so. Just wondering do I have to allow viewings. RTB have said I'm entitled to peaceful enjoyment and don't have to let anyone in except for him or the agent who acts on his behalf. This agent is not the auctioneer selling.

However our lease says that in the 4 weeks prior to the termination of the tenancy we have to allow the landlord or his agent and not more that two other persons access to view the property at reasonable intervals and a date and time agreeable.

So which takes precedence. The advise from the RTB on the back of the RTA that we don't have to let anyone view while we're here? Or the lease that we've signed.

We were originally happy to have viewings but since the landlords attitude has changed, so too has ours.

dennyk

Generally your lease would govern there, as there's nothing in the RTA specifically prohibiting landlords from conducting viewings and the terms provided in your lease are probably not unreasonable enough to violate your right to peaceful and exclusive use of the property (unlike, say, if the lease said the landlord could enter at any time without prior notice to conduct viewings). It would up to you to decide on an agreeable date and time, though, so I suppose you could just happen to find all of the times the landlord suggests "inconvenient", and there's really not much he could realistically do about it since your tenancy is ending anyway (he could in theory sue you for damages, I suppose, but that's pretty unlikely). However, assuming the landlord is acting in good faith and is being reasonable about working with you to arrange a reasonable number of viewings at mutually agreeable times, going along with it will prevent your relationship with your landlord from becoming adversarial and probably save you some stress in the end.

4ensic15

Agree viewings. Stay in the property during the viewings. Keep the TV or radio on loudly. Cook during the viewings. Wear weird clothes during the viewings.
keep the windows closed as much as possible before and during viewings.

Who2

That’s going to help everyone, maybe stand stark bollock naked chanting when he has viewings.
If your landlord has been reasonable throughout why not just be reasonable back, you seem scorned when he wouldn’t just drop 15% off the rent when you approached him. Or maybe he seen it as give me x amount or else, either way you agreed to a price and it’s fair you stick to it, there was no harm chancing your arm, but that’s all it is.
Do the decent thing and try to be reasonable with him, will you really gain anything by being an arse with him.

quadrifoglio verde

Who2 wrote: »

That’s going to help everyone, maybe stand stark bollock naked chanting when he has viewings.
If your landlord has been reasonable throughout why not just be reasonable back, you seem scorned when he wouldn’t just drop 15% off the rent when you approached him. Or maybe he seen it as give me x amount or else, either way you agreed to a price and it’s fair you stick to it, there was no harm chancing your arm, but that’s all it is.
Do the decent thing and try to be reasonable with him, will you really gain anything by being an arse with him.

Think is he hasn't been reasonable for a significant period of time. Originally agreed to a reduction and has now come back and said no reduction.

overkill602

good reason to have vacant possession when selling...

whisky_galore

What goes around comes around.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

Agree viewings. Stay in the property during the viewings. Keep the TV or radio on loudly. Cook during the viewings. Wear weird clothes during the viewings.
keep the windows closed as much as possible before and during viewings.

And people wonder why LLs are selling when rents are so high.

garhjw

OP, just use common sense. Agree to viewings but on terms agreed with the landlord - only certain days and times for example.

Samuel T. Cogley

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Think is he hasn't been reasonable for a significant period of time. Originally agreed to a reduction and has now come back and said no reduction.

Is this in an RPZ? If so he can't reduce the rent without compromising the value of the property.

_Brian

So his reward for being a good landlord over the period of the tenancy is people are advising you be a dick now for no reason other than you’d like a discount your not entitled to.

If you do this it just increases the chances he will be less accommodating to following tenants.

It’s how the relationships spiral downwards, he’s been decent but you still act the dick.

Had a similar experience myself, treated tenants well with below market rents and they still left the place a mess when they left. Bumped the rent right up by 35%, never doing that again.

ekimiam

_Brian wrote: »

So his reward for being a good landlord over the period of the tenancy is people are advising you be a dick now for no reason other than you’d like a discount your not entitled to.

If you do this it just increases the chances he will be less accommodating to following tenants.

It’s how the relationships spiral downwards, he’s been decent but you still act the dick.

Had a similar experience myself, treated tenants well with below market rents and they still left the place a mess when they left. Bumped the rent right up by 35%, never doing that again.

Where did you get that they were a good landlord?

Fol20

OP it seemed like you wanted to block him from viewings as he wouldnt decrease your rent. Normally at the end of a tenancy, its generally accepted that you allow people to view the place. Normally its for new tenants but in your case its for new buyers - its the same thing generally speaking. It isnt the norm to get a reduction just because of viewings for an hour a week.

Have you had a good relationship with him up until now?

CountingCrows

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

We were originally happy to have viewings but since the landlords attitude has changed, so too has ours.

How has the landlords attitude changed?? The only thing that changed is you received unsolicited advise from auctioneers that you should look for a rent reduction.

ogsjw

4ensic15 wrote: »

Agree viewings. Stay in the property during the viewings. Keep the TV or radio on loudly. Cook during the viewings. Wear weird clothes during the viewings.
keep the windows closed as much as possible before and during viewings.

Cook garlic and fish specifically :pac:

dennyk

Or the OP could be an adult about it and work with the landlord to accommodate a reasonable number of viewings in the last few weeks. If the landlord was being unreasonable about it and demanding access at any time without notice or something, then yeah, **** that, but the terms in the lease, which the OP already agreed to, seem perfectly reasonable to me. Why should the OP not cooperate as agreed?

GGTrek

dennyk wrote: »

Or the OP could be an adult about it and work with the landlord to accommodate a reasonable number of viewings in the last few weeks. If the landlord was being unreasonable about it and demanding access at any time without notice or something, then yeah, **** that, but the terms in the lease, which the OP already agreed to, seem perfectly reasonable to me. Why should the OP not cooperate as agreed?

A minority of tenants just sign any lease presented to them knowing full well that enforcing it in Ireland is really hard except in the first 6 months or at the end of part 4 where a tenant like the OP would probably get the boot.

tvjunki

Don't forget you may need a reference in the future. Leave on good terms.

SteM

Your new rental is in 2 months, anything can happen during that time. What if it's delayed for a few weeks and you need to stay on for a while? Just act like a bloody adult and agree viewing times that suit you and the landlord like you agreed to in the lease you were happy to sign, it won't kill you.

Lux23

I would accommodate the landlord as much as you can OP, just ask for 24/48 hours notice for each viewing.

handlemaster

The OP is been deliberately difficult in order to try and get reduced rent. This is what this is about not fulfilling the contract that was signed and trying to screw the landlord. Dickie bow it up how you want , it's no wonder LL are dropping like flies with they kind of carry on.

10pennymixup

handlemaster wrote: »

The OP is been deliberately difficult in order to try and get reduced rent. This is what this is about not fulfilling the contract that was signed and trying to screw the landlord. Dickie bow it up how you want , it's no wonder LL are dropping like flies with they kind of carry on.

Agree.

Tenant has already received compensation. When the rent was originally set, it was at a price that considered the fact that viewings would take place in the 4 weeks prior to termination.

I don't know why people are being hard on the OP.
They are presumably paying their rent and would be happy to stay on. Having people looking around and having to be available is a pain - especially if you are paying for that privilege.

I was in a similar situation last year - we refused to allow viewings and negotiated a date for us to leave instead. As it happens the sale has gone smoothly and we probably would have had to be out even earlier if we had accommodated the viewings.

On one of the original proposed viewing days we all had a vomiting bug.

Edit: what exactly does your lease say about the viewings?
If you were the one breaking it it would be reasonable for the landlord to want to show it to get it let as quickly as possible.
Given that it is the landlord wanting to end it it is not unreasonable to want compensation or to not want the disruption.

Edit 2: I think you made a mistake by giving your notice effectively unilaterally.
You should have agreed the date and then asked the landlord to give you notice.

Woshy

I always find these threads strange. As a landlord about to put my property on the market I wouldn't dream of asking my tenants to allow viewings/visits by estate agents etc. I've arranged to meet the EA a few days after the last day of their tenancy.

For starters I feel bad enough they are likely scrambling to find a new property and are stressed as it is - asking if people can look around what is still technically their home is like a slap in the face. Secondly I would rather people be viewing a vacant property that I have had time to check over and make sure is in proper condition etc.

As a landlord I wouldn't expect it of someone and if I were a tenant I wouldn't be keen on allowing it.

As above I argued with the landlord that the house would probably be easier to sell if vacant and with a fresh lick of paint and flexible viewings instead of cluttered with the paraphernalia of family life.

SteM

Woshy wrote: »

As a landlord I wouldn't expect it of someone and if I were a tenant I wouldn't be keen on allowing it.

That's fine and I'm sure the lease you ask your tenants to sign doesn't request viewings but the OPs does. As a tenant the OP had an opportunity to ask for that clause to be removed before they signed it.

mrslancaster

SteM wrote: »

That's fine and I'm sure the lease you ask your tenants to sign doesn't request viewings but the OPs does. As a tenant the OP had an opportunity to ask for that clause to be removed before they signed it.

In fairness, viewings are very disruptive for tenants or owner occupiers who are selling and tenants can get caught due to their lease agreement.

Another poster pointed out (maybe another thread) that many tenants do not bother to read the contract before they sign it. That might have been ok in the past when there were less rules, more places available and shorter rental periods.

IMO, things are very different now for both landlords and tenants and anyone entering into a tenancy agreement/contract needs to read and understand what they are signing up to and if necessary, get legal advice. Both sides need to protect themselves. The days of doing things on a wing and a prayer and hoping everything will work out are gone.

Woshy

SteM wrote: »

That's fine and I'm sure the lease you ask your tenants to sign doesn't request viewings but the OPs does. As a tenant the OP had an opportunity to ask for that clause to be removed before they signed it.

The lease does have it in it - so I could do it if I wanted. I choose not to.

I'm not disputing it's in the OP's lease and therefore legally he should abide by it. I just think it isn't a great thing for landlords or tenants and, barring financial time pressure I can't think why either side would want the hassle of it

Fol20

Woshy wrote: »

I always find these threads strange. As a landlord about to put my property on the market I wouldn't dream of asking my tenants to allow viewings/visits by estate agents etc. I've arranged to meet the EA a few days after the last day of their tenancy.

For starters I feel bad enough they are likely scrambling to find a new property and are stressed as it is - asking if people can look around what is still technically their home is like a slap in the face. Secondly I would rather people be viewing a vacant property that I have had time to check over and make sure is in proper condition etc.

As a landlord I wouldn't expect it of someone and if I were a tenant I wouldn't be keen on allowing it.

You shouldnt be in the industry if you feel bad that they have to move. Its a business transaction and moving RENTED accomodation is normal.

I agree that if im selling id prefer it empty as you can out a lick of paint on it or do whatever you think will help sell it. You are dealing with hundreds of thousands of euro after all however for some ll, their finances might be very tight where they need to sell with tenants in situ to keep the cashflow going.

Fol20

mrslancaster wrote: »

In fairness, viewings are very disruptive for tenants or owner occupiers who are selling and tenants can get caught due to their lease agreement.

Another poster pointed out (maybe another thread) that many tenants do not bother to read the contract before they sign it. That might have been ok in the past when there were less rules, more places available and shorter rental periods.

IMO, things are very different now for both landlords and tenants and anyone entering into a tenancy agreement/contract needs to read and understand what they are signing up to and if necessary, get legal advice. Both sides need to protect themselves. The days of doing things on a wing and a prayer and hoping everything will work out are gone.

I honestly dont get the big deal of viewings. I have sold my previous house where i would be in the house working or doing whatever and people would pop in for a look. I just told the ea to give me a 24hours notice. Its not like their going into your drawers searching for your underwear. Whats the big deal?

How are they caught out though, tenants have the opportunity to read their contract and its their iwn fault if they dont. No one is trying to catch anyone out, its on the contract which would usually be fairly easy to understand for rental leases.

Fol20

Fol20 wrote: »

I honestly dont get the big deal of viewings. I have sold my previous house where i would be in the house working or doing whatever and people would pop in for a look. I just told the ea to give me a 24hours notice. Its not like their going into your drawers searching for your underwear. Whats the big deal?

How are they caught out though, tenants have the opportunity to read their contract and its their iwn fault if they dont. No one is trying to catch anyone out, its on the contract which would usually be fairly easy to understand for rental leases.

As the person selling the house you presumably had a strong financial incentive to facilitate the process.

What benefit comes to the tenant for facilitating viewings?they are paying rent for the use of the house - why should they put up with any disruption?

handlemaster

Woshy wrote: »

I always find these threads strange. As a landlord about to put my property on the market I wouldn't dream of asking my tenants to allow viewings/visits by estate agents etc. I've arranged to meet the EA a few days after the last day of their tenancy.

For starters I feel bad enough they are likely scrambling to find a new property and are stressed as it is - asking if people can look around what is still technically their home is like a slap in the face. Secondly I would rather people be viewing a vacant property that I have had time to check over and make sure is in proper condition etc.

As a landlord I wouldn't expect it of someone and if I were a tenant I wouldn't be keen on allowing it.

That is your choice if that is what you choose to do. There are enough laws been dreamed up by government now without adding its a forbidden to have viewing towards the end of a tenancy. It would mean the property taking longer to sell. More cost to the landlord

mitresize5

good luck with trying to get a reference off him next time

ekimiam

mitresize5 wrote: »

good luck with trying to get a reference off him next time

next time ? ?

The_Conductor

ekimiam wrote: »

next time ? ?

Its now common practice to seek references from a tenants last *two* landlords- in recognition of the fact that many landlords are giving tenants glowing references just to get shot of them.

ekimiam

if they dont care this time i doubt they will be asking again.

Fian

Woshy wrote: »

I always find these threads strange. As a landlord about to put my property on the market I wouldn't dream of asking my tenants to allow viewings/visits by estate agents etc. I've arranged to meet the EA a few days after the last day of their tenancy.

For starters I feel bad enough they are likely scrambling to find a new property and are stressed as it is - asking if people can look around what is still technically their home is like a slap in the face. Secondly I would rather people be viewing a vacant property that I have had time to check over and make sure is in proper condition etc.

As a landlord I wouldn't expect it of someone and if I were a tenant I wouldn't be keen on allowing it.

The mortgage must continue to be paid between the termination of the tenancy and the sale, assuming that there remains a mortgage outstanding. This is a cost that most landlords simply cannot afford to wear for any longer than necessary, particularly since generally if the property is being sold it indicates that the landlord needs to liquidate the asset. This is why many landlords are anxious to progress the sale process as quickly as possible and do not want to wait until the tenant has vacated before the property is even shown/viewed.

ekimiam

Fian wrote: »

The mortgage must continue to be paid between the termination of the tenancy and the sale, assuming that there remains a mortgage outstanding. This is a cost that most landlords simply cannot afford to wear for any longer than necessary, particularly since generally if the property is being sold it indicates that the landlord needs to liquidate the asset. This is why many landlords are anxious to progress the sale process as quickly as possible and do not want to wait until the tenant has vacated before the property is even shown/viewed.[/QUOTE

Tennants might have to take time off work to accomodate the viewings to ensure their property is safe. LL should take their costs into account too.

If LL wants it done quick, offer a carrot .

ekimiam

ekimiam wrote: »

offer a carrot .

Like a good reference?

overkill602

lets call it as it is this jerk wants compo