5 year old behaviour

Makapakka

Hi just looking for opinions on my 5 year olds behaviour. She will be 6 in the summer.

For the last while, I've had real trouble with her cheekiness. She talks back to me about everything, gets very frustrated and screams and shouts all the time. If she's told to do something, like keep her voice at "level 3" (something she was thought in dance) because someone is still asleep or you just don't need to be listening to shouting, she ignores and continues to do it. The minute I collect her from crèche, she's giving out and moaning. I've asked if she's ok in there AND in school, and both have said she's doing well.

It's come to a stage that I'm afraid to say anything that might cause a tantrum or I'm dreading collecting her because I have to deal with the tantrums. I feel so guilty for feeling this way.

Would you consider this behaviour normal?

shesty

It doesn't sound a million miles off some of my four year old's behaviour (girl-almost 5).LISTEN is the mantra in this house.Stop shouting, I am right beside you also gets used a lot.Wait til person X has stopped speaking then take your turn.A lot of very dramatic strops with a lot of cheek involved-which gets very short shrift from me.

It would drive you to drink.....in fact it has done some weekends....

skallywag

Makapakka wrote: »

It's come to a stage that I'm afraid to say anything that might cause a tantrum ...

:pac:

Mine started the same carry on around about the same age. It has also gotten steadily worse since!

Baybay

Maybe try this: tell her, repeatedly if necessary that you can’t hear her if she shouts. Respond when her voice drops to a suitable level for you. Or speak very quietly to her when she’s shouting & she may drop her voice in an attempt to hear you.

Rechuchote

Reward good behaviour, ignore bad behaviour, don't bring her anywhere she can show off.

shesty

Also don't engage with her when she's talking back, just hold your line and say very little.Don't be drawn into arguments with her.
Hard as anything when you are mentally dying to say "f&%k off" to them, but being an adult you're supposed to be above that....!

farmchoice

Makapakka wrote: »

Hi just looking for opinions on my 5 year olds behaviour. She will be 6 in the summer.

For the last while, I've had real trouble with her cheekiness. She talks back to me about everything, gets very frustrated and screams and shouts all the time. If she's told to do something, like keep her voice at "level 3" (something she was thought in dance) because someone is still asleep or you just don't need to be listening to shouting, she ignores and continues to do it. The minute I collect her from crèche, she's giving out and moaning. I've asked if she's ok in there AND in school, and both have said she's doing well.

It's come to a stage that I'm afraid to say anything that might cause a tantrum or I'm dreading collecting her because I have to deal with the tantrums. I feel so guilty for feeling this way.

Would you consider this behaviour normal?

depressingly normal I'm afraid, our little madam is the same, quite as a mouse in school, oh the best little girl in the class, so placid, so mature.
at home an absolute nightmare, constantly giving out wont do a thing she is told, starts fights with her brothers and then blames them (older and younger).

if she can turn it off and on then there is nothing wrong with her, out from the fact she is a little......

Makapakka

Thanks for your responses. Thank God it's not just me. We are just home from new day of school 5 mins and there has already been screaming and shouting. Oh god help us..

Call me Al

I used to just ignore this type of carry on, and remind them that if they wanted attention that it would only be given if they spoke to me in a quiet voice. And I followed through.
Every. Single. Time. And if I wasn't giving in to whatever it was they wanted, and they were giving out and roaring I used to tell them to stand in the hallway until they were ready to calm down. For some inexplicable reason they did it too:-)
Painful and slow at times, but we got there eventually. The screeching stage stopped eventually.

shesty

First day back in playschool over and we have had several "conversations" about cheek-yes, and a "if you can't speak without being rude, you can leave the dinner table and stay in the hall until you are ready" one too.She is spoiling for a fight.
But underneath it all, she's absolutely exhausted.

Edited to ask,while we are on the topic, is anyone else's 4/5 year old very dramatic?We are having massive performances lately...every bump and scratch, spilled cup, broken biscuit or and bang from a sibling is an Oscar-worthy performance of wailing and howling and just noise.It is exhausting and LOUD, and by the time we reach the 20th one of the day, I am totally fed up.Is it just us??

Makapakka

shesty wrote: »

First day back in playschool over and we have had several "conversations" about cheek-yes, and a "if you can't speak without being rude, you can leave the dinner table and stay in the hall until you are ready" one too.She is spoiling for a fight.
But underneath it all, she's absolutely exhausted.

Edited to ask,while we are on the topic, is anyone else's 4/5 year old very dramatic?We are having massive performances lately...every bump and scratch, spilled cup, broken biscuit or and bang from a sibling is an Oscar-worthy performance of wailing and howling and just noise.It is exhausting and LOUD, and by the time we reach the 20th one of the day, I am totally fed up.Is it just us??

No, we are the same. She banged her toe off my shoe and started to cry but there was no tears, and once she saw her nana the cries got louder and more fake.. it is exhausting. I am glad to hear I'm. It the only one and that she doesn't hate me haha

Dardania

Our eldest is 3.5, and she gets like this at times. Shesty’s point is what we see also - underneath she is just exhausted.
What we find helps is to give her her own time, to watch cartoons for a while, or set her up colouring, until she’s ready to engage with people.
They need to recharge their brains after intense days.

shesty

100% this.Reluctant as I am to use the TV too much, she definitely has two points in the day when she needs to just sit and stare blankly-around lunchtime, when her nap used to be (she took a long time to drop her nap) and again around 4:30/5, before dinner for a bit.My second is just over three and still gets very tired around midday, although she doesn't sleep everyday.No more than ourselves getting tired at the end of the day I suppose.

Makapakka

Yeah, maybe I should take that on board and just let her sit and unwind for a bit!

Dravokivich

My son is 5 and about 2 years ago I started showing him how much whinging isn't tolerated. My go to line is "what does daddy do for whingers?" He knows the answer is nothing. And after a bit he'll settle down when he sees his demands arent being met.

He tries to hit me now. So I've a second line when it comes to that, "do you want me to hit you back?" Helps cut that out too.

You need to show them that they'll achieve nothing with that behaviour.

Digs

My eldest turned 6 this month. We definitely had a similar phase probably from 4.5-5.5
Looking back I can see it was a power struggle. She was pushing as far as she could to see where it would get her. I remember my Mam at the time telling me a lot of it was attention seeking, any attention good or bad would do her. So we ignored a lot and also calmly repeated that we weren’t going to tolerate that behaviour etc etc
Certain times when she was wrecked I would encourage her to take to the couch with a blanket and preempt the meltdown also.

We’ve definitely come out the other side now. She certainly cheeky and pushes our buttons but she now knows what behaviour just will not be tolerated so she doesn’t go there anymore. Consistency is key and also working as a team. Both parents have to be on the same page and stand firm. Kids are talented at sniffing out a weakness! There would have been a tendency to let me play bad cop and Dad was the “fun one” so she’d run rings around him but once we adjusted and sang from the same sheet she was hit with a wall and knew there was no going round us.
The last 6 months have definitely been much easier with her.

3DataModem

OP, it's a normal developmental phase, or so I'm told.

A lot of the advice above is good advice, but you have to follow through. The minute whining is rewarded ("fine then just this once") you are back to square one.

drunkmonkey

I tried an app last night where you have to shout to play, think my guys were tired of shouting by the end of it. Chicken Scream.
I'm thinking if I can get them to associate screaming with the game they won't do it if there not playing. Could backfire spectacularly but I'll try it again this evening if they kick off.

Toots

One of my friends said that as well as the terrible twos you get the "f*ck you" fives, and she was right.

My son certainly went through it, but the one phrase that really worked for me (and has already been said in this thread) is "I can't understand you if you're shouting/whinging/being cheeky" I think a lot of it was down to tiredness, it seemed to coincide with starting primary school. They'd really press your last nerve, though. There were times I'd go and sit on the loo just so I could get away and take a deep breath :pac:

I think my little boy is drifting in and out of what I'd call the "sh*tehawk sevens". Most of the time he's a lovely sweet child, but by god sometimes he gets so cheeky. I assume it's another developmental stage, but I'm really sure I wasn't that lippy with my parents at that age. He was having a go earlier and I very calmly told him that if I'd spoken to my parents like that at his age, I'd have been smacked so hard I wouldn't have been able to sit down. Had no intentions of doing anything of the sort to him, but it stopped him in his tracks and he goes "Grandma and Grandad used to hit you???" and just looked utterly appalled. I thought it best not to mention the wooden spoon

afkasurfjunkie

If the behaviour you see at home isn’t happening in school, then it’s either because they have you over a barrel and know they can get away with it at home or also sometimes because they are wrecked from holding it in and keeping themselves under control all day in school and basically need to get it all out of their system in a safe place. Which happens to be with you.

Hal3000

If you can bring them to the park and run the legs off them.

Bawnmore

Toots wrote: »

One of my friends said that as well as the terrible twos you get the "f*ck you" fives, and she was right.

My son certainly went through it, but the one phrase that really worked for me (and has already been said in this thread) is "I can't understand you if you're shouting/whinging/being cheeky" I think a lot of it was down to tiredness, it seemed to coincide with starting primary school. They'd really press your last nerve, though. There were times I'd go and sit on the loo just so I could get away and take a deep breath :pac:

I think my little boy is drifting in and out of what I'd call the "sh*tehawk sevens". Most of the time he's a lovely sweet child, but by god sometimes he gets so cheeky. I assume it's another developmental stage, but I'm really sure I wasn't that lippy with my parents at that age. He was having a go earlier and I very calmly told him that if I'd spoken to my parents like that at his age, I'd have been smacked so hard I wouldn't have been able to sit down. Had no intentions of doing anything of the sort to him, but it stopped him in his tracks and he goes "Grandma and Grandad used to hit you???" and just looked utterly appalled. I thought it best not to mention the wooden spoon

We have both a terrible two's and a ****ehawk sevens (stealing this :pac:) going on at the moment. The ****ehawk seven is fine, as like you said is so good the vast majority of the time and has little bouts of out of character cheekiness.

I'm about ready for the terrible two's to be over now though - at this stage we're merely suggesting things to her rather than telling her to do things. Whether she takes our advice seems to be completely up to herself

shesty

Well if my four year old and I make it to bedtime intact today it will be a serious achievement (mainly on my part).I am cooling a bottle of wine in the fridge for myself for later at this point......

Of course if she slept past 6am every morning, she would be doing us all a huge favour, herself included.

drunkmonkey

Stairgate and ignore her at 6am or just tell her go back to bed, had to do it with all mine. One now has to be woken and the other 2 are half 7, all of them tried the 5/6 waking.

shesty

Oh she stays in bed.It's just that she's awake, so she's exhausted by lunchtime.

gogo

I have a just gone, six year old that was like this... it was eggshells every day.

The only thing that worked with him is a marble jar.. we started it well over a year ago.. basically he gets marbles for good behavior, good words inc vocabulary, anything and everything good basically. We tried a reward chart but it’s just wasn’t a fit for him.. some days with the chart he’d get no stars and his older brother would, of course, get a full chart. Used it really knock him and I’d end up giving him a star to make him feel bette, which defeats the purpose. A Reward chart is so limited for this age group.
Marbles work better as I can decide when he gets one or two for any behavior that’s essentially good and tailored to his behavior. He also has increased his vocabulary because of it .. regularly says some random big word and look for a marble
Full jar gets him a huge present.. it took them a full year to fill there jars, and they both got new Nintendo d.s.’s.. the prize is worth the behavior and they earned them.. I do threaten that they can ‘lose their marbles’ for bad behavior but try not to as it’s counter productive as they feel they earned them in the first place. My husband also nearly ruined it by giving twenty marbles some days.. they are supposed to be hard to get. They also aren’t allowed touch them only to pick them out and put in their own jars when they are earned.. they are ‘treasured’ things. Anyway might be if some help works well in our house, he still no angel but it deffo helped, I only have to say the word ‘marbles’ now and he either thinking of winning one or losing one x

P.S you can pick up marbles on dealz for 1.50.. nice fancy ones that they love picking through to get certain colours etc

shesty

That is such an excellent idea.Reward charts have limited impact here too.

Sunrise_Sunset

farmchoice wrote: »

depressingly normal I'm afraid, our little madam is the same, quite as a mouse in school, oh the best little girl in the class, so placid, so mature.
at home an absolute nightmare, constantly giving out wont do a thing she is told, starts fights with her brothers and then blames them (older and younger).

if she can turn it off and on then there is nothing wrong with her, out from the fact she is a little......

In the majority of cases this is true. But there is also something called Oppositional Defiant Disorder. And often they will save this behaviour for the parents, and be good in school. It's worth a read.

https://childmind.org/guide/oppositional-defiant-disorder/what-is-it/

Hannibal_Smith

Not sure if it's been suggested already... But we had a similar experience here. We tried all sorts... Rewarding good behaviour... Ignoring the not so good. Nothing worked. When he kicked off nothing would bring him back. In the end I videoed him and showed it back to him. That's the only thing that worked. He couldn't believe himself. So everytimehe he would kick off I would record it. I only showed it back to him the once... I hadn't the heart to keep showing him... But the thought that he might see it was enough. The day he went to kick off and stopped himself when I reached for the phone was the best day of my life.

Dardania

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Not sure if it's been suggested already... But we had a similar experience here. We tried all sorts... Rewarding good behaviour... Ignoring the not so good. Nothing worked. When he kicked off nothing would bring him back. In the end I videoed him and showed it back to him. That's the only thing that worked. He couldn't believe himself. So everytimehe he would kick off I would record it. I only showed it back to him the once... I hadn't the heart to keep showing him... But the thought that he might see it was enough. The day he went to kick off and stopped himself when I reached for the phone was the best day of my life.

Very clever, and very introspective / self aware child you're raising - congrats!

Akrasia

shesty wrote: »

Well if my four year old and I make it to bedtime intact today it will be a serious achievement (mainly on my part).I am cooling a bottle of wine in the fridge for myself for later at this point......

Of course if she slept past 6am every morning, she would be doing us all a huge favour, herself included.

Have you tried blackout blinds for this time of the year because It's so bright in the morning and because the kids can't tell the time yet, they don't know if it's almost time to wake up or if they can go back to sleep? Before we got ours, my my 2nd child was always up at the crack of dawn. It was tough.

When she was 5 I got her a clock for her room that projects the time onto the ceiling so she knows whether it's still really early, or almost time to get up. It works great because she can decide herself whether to snooze, or get up and play with her toys or come and wake us up. But most 4 year olds probably still can't figure out even digital clocks. The blackout blinds helped a lot though.

It's really really hard when your kids either wake up too early, or wake up in the middle of the night (or both)

Mrcaramelchoc

One thing that stands out after reading this thread is if any parent has to go to an app to do the parenting,honestly what is the world coming to.
Put the phone down and be a parent ffs.

stanley1989

Kids play up on their mums . When I was out of work I stayed at home with the kids while herself was on a course . 8 am till 5pm the kids were happy quiet and generally no work at all ,as soon as mums car pulled in the driveway the crying winging whinning started ,cannot listen to it lol unnecessary crying I call it ..Kids are the same with their grandmother (my mum ) they play up on her 100% of the time I think because she allows it . My current partner has a 3 year old girl she's hard work too but only when mommie is around , when it's just me and her she's a pleasure to mind . The parent is usually at fault I find

shesty

We have blackout blinds.In all three of their bedrooms.She is just an early riser.She stays quiet and in bed but she's still awake so she's tired.

Actually it's quite normal for kids to hold it together during the day, but pull out the bad behaviour in the evening for their parents.It can be habit, yes, but also because their parents are their safe place....if they need to let their feelings out, they do so with people they know can handle it, specially with the mothers.It's how you react as a parent that is the key.

Fall_Guy

stanley1989 wrote: »

Kids play up on their mums . When I was out of work I stayed at home with the kids while herself was on a course . 8 am till 5pm the kids were happy quiet and generally no work at all ,as soon as mums car pulled in the driveway the crying winging whinning started ,cannot listen to it lol unnecessary crying I call it ..Kids are the same with their grandmother (my mum ) they play up on her 100% of the time I think because she allows it . My current partner has a 3 year old girl she's hard work too but only when mommie is around , when it's just me and her she's a pleasure to mind . The parent is usually at fault I find

I do think it's quite common that the people a child has the most secure attachments with see the worst of the behaviour. More often than not that person is the mother (it's certainly my wife in our house anyway) but I don't think she is "at fault" for that in any way..... You're a braver man than me if you suggest as much to your partner