Don't know how to banter

LegacyUser

I find that my conversations on the few dates I go on are usually quite stale.
I've identified a few problems such as my oversharing too early, being a bit negative and most importantly I seem unable to banter in a playful manner with a girl.

It baffles me how to carry off the sort of vibe that goes with joking around and teasing a girl in a way that doesn't seem callous or rude.
I tend not to be rude to anyone so it's hard and from everything I read/hear it's essential along with the usual vocalizing disagreement when you mean it and physical touch such as shoulder all to indicate to a girl that you are more than just a friend.

I seem to repeat the same scenario over and over again and girls tend to completely dismiss me immediately because of this and I am sure other reasons including the ones mentioned above. I can certainly see opportunities here and there to say something cheeky without being mean but I tend not to.

Why is it so essential to some women that we must engage in a sort of faux confrontation all be it in a light hearted way to prove that I am someone of interest?.
Is it a childish thing that isn't required when you get older?.
I get that I have to be interesting and not a doormat. I wouldn't say I am but I don't tend to disagree with people. I'm more likely to listen.

All I ever hear about is "The Banter", we must have "The Banter".
As a kid, when I would see a person getting heckled in a social group I would be the one to say nothing as I felt like it was a form of bullying yet to my mind, our culture seems to be built off people testing each other socially as to how well they can handle getting teased.
I'm not butt hurt because of this but just trying to understand what I need to do to get more of a vibe like this going.

Maybe all of the problems I mentioned above are more the issue but does anyone have any thoughts on this?.

Big Bag of Chips

"banter" can be an umbrella term for many things. It doesn't specifically mean that you have to slag someone. It can mean just light hearted conversation. Having laugh about a range of things. Not taking yourself, or anyone else too seriously.

I read/hear it's essential along with the usual vocalizing disagreement when you mean it and physical touch such as shoulder

Stop reading this shyte.

Touching someone has to be natural and organic, it has to come from the flow of the conversation. If I was talking to a fella who randomly reached out and touched my shoulder it'd be weird!

You just need to relax around people. They're only people. Stop trying so hard. Someone trying too hard to do things that don't come naturally stand out a mile, and it just makes things awkward for everyone. You can't be anyone but yourself, so stop reading "techniques" and just relax.

Once you relax, chat will happen. It's not easy, and often times it will depend on the company you're in. Some people are easy to chat to, some are very difficult. Once you stop seeing women as some foreign, different species that you have to conquer you might find chatting comes a bit easier.

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Lowkii wrote: »

As a kid, when I would see a person getting heckled in a social group I would be the one to say nothing as I felt like it was a form of bullying yet to my mind, our culture seems to be built off people testing each other socially as to how well they can handle getting teased.
I'm not butt hurt because of this but just trying to understand what I need to do to get more of a vibe like this going.

That can be a part of Irish culture, yes, but not everyone appreciates it. Many people, often the quieter, less brash types, positively detest so-called "slagging."

Also, there's nothing more off-putting than cultivating a fake "vibe" around yourself in an effort to impress a girl. She will 100% know it's an act.

Cultivate the ability to make interesting conversation on a variety of topics. Practice talking to people in general (of both sexes) and make an intentional effort to be more engaging, less negative, and less repetitive. Make eye contact, smile, and be positive. When you go on a date, treat it not as a mating dance but as an opportunity to get to know someone better and have a good conversation.

osarusan

I wouldn't be too bothered about it.

Firstly, if that kind of mild, flirtatious chat doesn't come naturally to you, you'll likely mess it up and come off oddly anyway.

Secondly, there are probably just as many people who don't like it as do like it.

I'd focus more on the oversharing and being too negative instead.

leggo

Everything in your post seems to be about "How can I do what everyone expects me to do to keep them happy and get what I want?"

In practise, that's really easy to spot in another person. Without people being able to scan for a backstory that we could perhaps empathise with, it translates as needy and slightly untrustworthy, i.e. this person won't show you who they really are. And I've known so many people who were people-pleasing at first, then got a bit of confidence (which would happen if you got into a relationship) and became total arseholes tbh. That's what people are worried about and it's why they recoil from getting too close to people who do it. In some ways, you'd probably be better off just coming out and saying, "So I'm socially awkward and here's why..." than doing that.

So forget about trying to assimilate other people's traits into your personality for personal gain.

Instead, try figure out who YOU are as a person. Be a bit selfish. Whenever you reach a juncture where you normally might think, "What should I do? What is expected of me or what action/thought have I learned* leads to personal gain?" Instead think, "What do I want to do? How do *I* feel about this regardless of what anyone else thinks?"

Go with that for a while. Get comfortable in your own skin. Start to build up a sense of what makes you unique as a person. Maybe you've gone through tough times, maybe you've been bullied or put down in the past, or just gone through insecurity/depression and subconsciously got the feeling that being yourself is an inherently bad thing. It's not. Whatever made you feel that you had to act like others to be happy was total BS, a judgement made by someone who wasn't qualified to make that judgement, even if it was yourself. And now it's that feeling, rather than there being anything inherently wrong, that's holding you back. Start thinking about this new you in positive terms. What's your favourite aspect of your personality? What could you bring to a date/relationship that many others can't? What do you offer to the world as a whole? Even if it's unnatural at first, force yourself to come up with answers. Then just project that to the outside world. Walk, talk, dress and look the way that the best version of that person does. Be proud of it.

It gets a lot easier from there and these questions you're struggling with now won't even be questions anymore.

*When I say learned...it's like this: I run a business and oftentimes I'll see a competitor try copy ideas we come up with. The thing is, I remember the inception of the idea, remember why we came up with it, what goal we had in mind and why it worked. They weren't there for that part. They just copied what they saw we did without fully understanding it. So it comes off as really forced, cheap and obvious and doesn't work for them like it does for us because it misses a few crucial aspects that get the motor running for the idea. That's what it can come across as when you try force 'banter' or touching people's shoulder because you've seen it work for others. You don't actually understand why you're doing it, so you're essentially just spitting into the wind, and as such your slagging/touching may be totally inappropriate for the moment.

Johnnyhpipe

I would try to forget about “banter”. Everyone’s definition of that is different anyway.

They say, be yourself. I often find that terrible advice since I’m sometimes a miserable bastard!! But i try to be the beat version of myself.

Try to see positives in everything! If you’re talking about something, try not to be negative about whatever it is, particularly on first dates. Positivity in conversations will lead to further conversations, which will ultimately lead to ‘banter’.

LegacyUser

Excellent feedback from all on this thread. I will take this advice and very much appreciate the replies here.

Daisy78

Personally I hate "cocky and funny", I think a lot of men use banter as a means of slagging off or being mean to a girl, god knows why. I'm sure there are plenty of women who feel the same way. Whatever is putting these women off it's not this.