Men and Staring?

Bredabe

A team member was at a work mandated safety workshop, there were team members from all over the organisation at it.

Most of us would have have contact at least once a week with each other and others would have worked together before they were transferred out.

My team member, Mary was chatting at the end of the two day workshop with an ex colleague John, who is a so competitive and opinionated as to be a hindrance in job he had in their then shared dept.

Unsurprisingly they had a clash of opinions, that according to observers he just would not let go and kept trying to use his opinion to annoy her(she was already upset about something not related to this) in the end she muttered something about how he can do what he likes and left the room, to put items in her locker.

When she returned about five minutes later he was laughing and chatting with the guys he was working with all day(at a noise level she felt, may have been aimed at her) the instructor arrived back and training resumed for another half hour.

That ended the training and she moved to a more open area to pack her stuff up to leave, there were ppl standing around making plans/goodbying etc. she caught his staring at her but went back to her packing, she looked around and he was still staring at her( in Mary's job its vital to be aware of how ppl are behaving/reacting to her)

As she walked out of the room another team mate joined her, as she glanced to respond to the team member, Mary could see that John was still sitting and staring as she left while he was still surrounded by his posse.

She is completely freaked out by this behaviour, so gentlemen, any idea's on what was going on with him/trying to achieve with this behaviour?

*Mary and John are not their real names.
John is married with young children and Mary is older and fatter than he is(according to him)

source

So "John and staring" rather than "Men and staring" ?

He sounds like he's an as5hole. He was being an as5hole. That's my take on it.

Pissartist

Bredabe wrote: »

A team member was at a work mandated safety workshop, there were team members from all over the organisation at it.

Most of us would have have contact at least once a week with each other and others would have worked together before they were transferred out.

My team member, Mary was chatting at the end of the two day workshop with an ex colleague John, who is a so competitive and opinionated as to be a hindrance in job he had in their then shared dept.

Unsurprisingly they had a clash of opinions, that according to observers he just would not let go and kept trying to use his opinion to annoy her(she was already upset about something not related to this) in the end she muttered something about how he can do what he likes and left the room, to put items in her locker.

When she returned about five minutes later he was laughing and chatting with the guys he was working with all day(at a noise level she felt, may have been aimed at her) the instructor arrived back and training resumed for another half hour.

That ended the training and she moved to a more open area to pack her stuff up to leave, there were ppl standing around making plans/goodbying etc. she caught his staring at her but went back to her packing, she looked around and he was still staring at her( in Mary's job its vital to be aware of how ppl are behaving/reacting to her)

As she walked out of the room another team mate joined her, as she glanced to respond to the team member, Mary could see that John was still sitting and staring as she left while he was still surrounded by his posse.

She is completely freaked out by this behaviour, so gentlemen, any idea's on what was going on with him/trying to achieve with this behaviour?

*Mary and John are not their real names.
John is married with young children and Mary is older and fatter than he is(according to him)

Yes why blame all men ?
Frankly it sounds like Mary has the problem and not John, difference of opinion get over it.

Bredabe

source wrote: »

So "John and staring" rather than "Men and staring" ?

He sounds like he's an as5hole. He was being an as5hole. That's my take on it.

That would be my take on it too, but she is freaked out and I dont know what to say as I've never had that experience.

I kept the title vague as I want to hear all theories on why men in this case, behave like this.

Rubberchikken

he sounds like a jerk. mary would do best to ignore him, not enter into any argument or conversation with him and just leave him to his crap.
id label him as insecure and a moron and be done with him.

Bredabe

Pissartist wrote: »

Yes why blame all men ?
Frankly it sounds like Mary has the problem and not John, difference of opinion get over it.

See post 4.

gerrybbadd

He attempting to intimidate her. Its a form of bulllying.

source

Bredabe wrote: »

That would be my take on it too, but she is freaked out and I dont know what to say as I've never had that experience.

I kept the title vague as I want to hear all theories on why men in this case, behave like this.

All you can tell her is that he's an as5hole and to forget about him, especial if they're not in daily contact.

I understand keeping the title vague, however I would ask why you think we would have any more insight into this guys thinking than you would. Honestly, from what you describe he's not a nice person. The implication from your title and clarification post is that all men are as5holes, in sure that wasn't your intention but you can surely see why it could be taken that way?

Ash.J.Williams

Is it a generational thing all these paragraphs and stories that seem to go nowhere...

Pissartist

Bredabe wrote: »

See post 4.

Not all men behave the same, but you already said Mary had issues previously, and was looking for him after the argument.
I think she needs to get over herself a difference of opinion is a natural and a good thing in work, a yes man/woman is the worst in my opinion.

bertsmom

Sounds like Mary has made this into a bigger issue than it is in her head. People have differing opinions all the time, everyone doesn't have to get on perfectly all the time.
It doesn't sound like either party has done anything wrong. John is entitled to look wherever he likes and Mary can feel however she likes bit at the end of the day what is the problem? I don't see one here....

y0ssar1an22

Only 1 way Mary knows John was staring at her.

To me Mary sounds like a prissy drama queen.

Bredabe

source wrote: »

All you can tell her is that he's an as5hole and to forget about him, especial if they're not in daily contact.

I understand keeping the title vague, however I would ask why you think we would have any more insight into this guys thinking than you would. Honestly, from what you describe he's not a nice person. The implication from your title and clarification post is that all men are as5holes, in sure that wasn't your intention but you can surely see why it could be taken that way?

You are right on this, it was not my intention but it doesn't read to me as im implying that either, especially as its clear from the very first sentence that the story is specific to an individual pair.

However as men use staring as a way of communicating lots of different things, I want to hear all opinions on what the communication may or maynot have been.

Bredabe

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Only 1 way Mary knows John was staring at her.

To me Mary sounds like a prissy drama queen.

Yes, the observation training that keeps her safe in her job, told her someone in that group was staring at her.

frosty123

Well, If he keeps it up tell mary to make a complaint

the_pen_turner

Not sure what John is supposed to have done. A difference of opinion. Doesn't make him wrong. He is probable looking at her thinking why was she arguing with me.

Sounds like Mary is the problem. She is making this an issue where there doesn't seem to be one.

dazed+confused

Bredabe wrote:

(she was already upset about something not related to this).

Bredabe wrote:

When she returned about five minutes later he was laughing and chatting (at a noise level she felt, may have been aimed at her)

Bredabe wrote:

(in Mary's job its vital to be aware of how ppl are behaving/reacting to her)

Sounds like Mary needs to leave her emotional baggage at home and stop over analysing everything that's happening around her.

Maybe her job of constantly analysing other peoples' behaviour is starting to take its toll on her.

Diceicle

Sounds like a clash of personalities with an added piece of John being an A-hole.
The staring (in that context) I would read as Johns low-calibre-individual way of intimidating Mary.
If it continues it would probably be best to call it out with other workers around 'stop staring at me it creeps me out, John.'
Then if it still persists a chat with his line-manager.

Also this is probably more of a Work Problems forum issues than a Mens issue.

Slattsy

Hi Mary.

sillysmiles

he just would not let go and kept trying to use his opinion to annoy her

she caught his staring at her

she looked around and he was still staring at her

John was still sitting and staring as she left while he was still surrounded by his posse.

He is a bully and was annoyed that she left the room rather than agree with his argument. When he couldn't bully her that he chose to try to intimidated her further.

gargargar

Bredabe wrote: »

John is married with young children and Mary is older and fatter than he is(according to him)

Classic ending to post

facehugger99

John fancies the arse off Mary.

Mary tries to tell herself she doesn't want John, but it's no use, she does.

Their lust is like the force of gravity, slowly, but inexorably drawing them closer and closer together.

endacl

I’m staring at all of you right now.

Deal with it.

Plumbthedepths

Bredabe wrote:

I kept the title vague as I want to hear all theories on why men in this case, behave like this.

Rather large brush you have there, but it's not men it's a specific man ie John.

spurious

gerrybbadd wrote: »

He attempting to intimidate her. Its a form of bulllying.

Sounds like some trainers used to tell the kids to do to their opposition in boxing. Find out who they were and never take your eyes off them before the contest. When done properly it can really freak the other kid out.

skallywag

Bredabe wrote: »

However as men use staring as a way of communicating lots of different things, I want to hear all opinions on what the communication may or maynot have been.

What on earth are you talking about?

And what is the 'fatter' comment all about right at the end of the OP, what context does that have in this matter?

To be honest I'm not sure if you are taking the piss or just incoherent ...

Nic_Col

In fairness to the OP it never happens that women engage in staring or workplace bullying. Only ever men.




Sarcasm aside, this is not a gender specific issue. And I'd be interested to hear "John's" version of events. Who knows what "Mary" may be omitting or exaggerating in her version of events. (Maybe she's doing neither of those things, but there's always two sides to the story in conflict situations)

Reviews and Books Galore

IMO, this can go a few ways.

1) He fancies her.

2)She's paranoid.

3) He's trying to intimidate her (I don't think this is likely)

4) He argued with her and she's trying to turn people against him.

Charles Ingles

Sounds like a pair of then in it, why is John automatically to blame?

Charles Ingles

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

IMO, this can go a few ways.

1) He fancies her.

2)She's paranoid.

3) He's trying to intimidate her (I don't think this is likely)

4) He argued with her and she's trying to turn people against him.

Number four is the most likely case, seen it lots of times before,
The chap is on a looser here men always get the blame in a work situation where two people don't get on

judeboy101

Maybe he likes big butts and he cannot lie?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Sustained staring is aggressive, even people who perform on stage can struggle to overcome a negative reaction to it in the early days. And I mean, dogs and chimps understand the concept, so I'd assume it's not beyond the ken of the majority of posters here :pac:

However I think framing it as "men and staring" is understandably leading to a hostile/disbelieving response, it's not a gender thing, I've been stared out of it by many a woman.

He's an unpleasant person, he's trying to intimidate her and he's smart enough to do it non verbally. Avoid him. Certainly don't be alone with him. If there's someone who she trusts who witnessed the initial exchange of words, she can get their take on it and see if it's likely she's overreacting, as you say she's other things on her mind.

mooreman09

He's trying to intimidate. If he lets it go - ignore it. If he does it again - report it.

He's a w@nker, but Mary can't be oversensitive either.

deandean

I remember last year, Netflix apparently introduced a 'no staring' rule among its workforce:
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/behavioral-competencies/global-and-cultural-effectiveness/pages/dont-look-reports-of-netflixs-no-staring-rule-raise-harassment-questions.aspx

"Netflix employees reportedly are forbidden to look at each other for longer than five seconds under a strict new anti-harassment policy the online streaming service has rolled out, according to news reports.
Workers also are to refrain from lingering hugs, flirting, asking for a co-worker's phone number unless he or she has given permission to have it distributed, and asking someone out more than once. If the co-worker says no, the employee can't ask again."

To me, staring at someone is plain bad manners and should be dealt with accordingly.

Some people also have spectrum disorders whereby they behave in this manner.

LillySV

I’d tell them all to get a life and maybe a hobby.... pathethic stuff

Pawwed Rig

deandean wrote: »

I remember last year, Netflix apparently introduced a 'no staring' rule among its workforce:
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/behavioral-competencies/global-and-cultural-effectiveness/pages/dont-look-reports-of-netflixs-no-staring-rule-raise-harassment-questions.aspx

"Netflix employees reportedly are forbidden to look at each other for longer than five seconds under a strict new anti-harassment policy the online streaming service has rolled out, according to news reports.
Workers also are to refrain from lingering hugs, flirting, asking for a co-worker's phone number unless he or she has given permission to have it distributed, and asking someone out more than once. If the co-worker says no, the employee can't ask again."

Intel had the same policy in Ireland 20 years ago. I would guess it is a California invention.

begbysback

Well Mary, can we first define a stare? Like how long is a stare, at what point does a glance transform into a look, and onto a stare?

Panthro

Mary needs to harden up.
If she's that bothered by it do something about it (as in HR, not like let a small amount of air out of his tyres every day for a month.)

Charles Ingles

begbysback wrote: »

Well Mary, can we first define a stare? Like how long is a stare, at what point does a glance transform into a look, and onto a stare?

There's a Mary in every office causing trouble

Wesser

why does it matter that mary is fatter and older?

c.p.w.g.w

gerrybbadd wrote: »

He attempting to intimidate her. Its a form of bulllying.

I find a good stare at people who have no idea of what they are talking about works a treat.

My line manager had this great idea, which certainly it wasn't for numerous reasons some of which were the law. A good stare at her stupid idea made her leave me alone and get onto annoying somebody else.

In the past some of her ideas have led to the WRC getting involved...yet she'd still in the company not having a clue about what she's doing.

...Ghost...

OK let me break this down, because there is quite a bit of detail provided for someone who is not Mary.

Bredabe wrote: »

Mary was chatting at the end of the two day workshop with an ex colleague John, who is a so competitive and opinionated as to be a hindrance in job he had in their then shared dept.

Men are competitive and are allowed to have opinions. You have not explained how his competitive and opinionated nature has been a hindrance to his "then shared department". From this first paragraph, you have displayed only contempt for John.

Unsurprisingly they had a clash of opinions, that according to observers he just would not let go and kept trying to use his opinion to annoy her

So John and Mary have different opinions? Were the observers men and women? Did these observers have reason to be bias in favour of Mary, rather than John? How did John use his opinion to "annoy her"? If it was just a case of him pressing an opinion forward, well that's just him being "competitive and opinionated.

(she was already upset about something not related to this) in the end she muttered something about how he can do what he likes and left the room, to put items in her locker.

Mary was already upset about something else. So, she brought emotional baggage into the training event. It sounds like she behaved unprofessionally by "muttering" to John and then leaving the room. My teenage daughter does that when she doesn't get her own way.

When she returned about five minutes later he was laughing and chatting with the guys he was working with all day(at a noise level she felt, may have been aimed at her)

John was completely out of line here. He should not have been laughing and chatting with the guys. He should have been sensitive to Marys feelings and offered her a Kleenex and given Mary what she wanted, right?

Seriously, Mary sounds like a complete "I am a victim" and was waaaay too sensitive and paranoid.

She caught his saw him staring at her but went back to her packing, she looked around and he was still staring at her( in Mary's job its vital to be aware of how ppl are behaving/reacting to her)

As she walked out of the room another team mate joined her, as she glanced to respond to the team member, Mary could see that John was still sitting and staring as she left while he was still surrounded by his posse.

I had to fix your post there. Otherwise it looks like Mary was trying to catch John staring at her. I doubt John was doing all this staring, but I may be wrong. Maybe John and Mary have history. Maybe he noticed she was behaving strangely and was staring. Maybe he was staring and didn't even know it. Maybe Mary is lying about the staring to try to make something out of nothing.

She is completely freaked out by this behaviour, so gentlemen, any idea's on what was going on with him/trying to achieve with this behaviour?

Mary needs to step into reality and stop fantasising that John is out to get her. My reading of your post is that John got his "opinion" recognised and Mary didn't like that. She then behaved like a spoilt child and sought comfort from her posse.

*Mary and John are not their real names.
John is married with young children and Mary is older and fatter than he is(according to him)

Ending with such a comment is very immature and telling. Mary, you need to stop thinking about John and stop the drama.

TerrorFirmer

This honestly all sounds like it's coming from the imagination of someone with serious self-esteem issues.

The idea that the average man would offer some amazing insight into this experience like we're some sort of hive mind is also pretty baffling and almost offensive.

I must post a thread now in the Ladies Lounge demanding answers from the female populace on that women who give me a funny lingering look in the cinema last night. I think I'll title it "Women and the cinema".

tedpan

Bredabe wrote:

That ended the training and she moved to a more open area to pack her stuff up to leave, there were ppl standing around making plans/goodbying etc. she caught his staring at her but went back to her packing, she looked around and he was still staring at her( in Mary's job its vital to be aware of how ppl are behaving/reacting to her)

Bredabe wrote:

When she returned about five minutes later he was laughing and chatting with the guys he was working with all day(at a noise level she felt, may have been aimed at her) the instructor arrived back and training resumed for another half hour.

Bredabe wrote:

That ended the training and she moved to a more open area to pack her stuff up to leave, there were ppl standing around making plans/goodbying etc. she caught his staring at her but went back to her packing, she looked around and he was still staring at her( in Mary's job its vital to be aware of how ppl are behaving/reacting to her)

Bredabe wrote:

As she walked out of the room another team mate joined her, as she glanced to respond to the team member, Mary could see that John was still sitting and staring as she left while he was still surrounded by his posse.

Bredabe wrote:

She is completely freaked out by this behaviour, so gentlemen, any idea's on what was going on with him/trying to achieve with this behaviour?

You must have been staring at Mary and John extremely closely to have all this detail.

Very strange thread...

work

Possibly the most warped post I have read. Really trying to tarnish men/man with strange accusations....OP or perhaps you prefer Mary I suggest you leave your job and become self employed setting up your own business. This will let you discover how pathologic and corrosive this mindset is.
Once you discover real work and risk then you will see how childish this is.

greenspurs

A really really strange post...