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Roulette "does he get paid" question?

  • 25-04-2019 11:29pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    Guy in a Ladbrokes shop plays roulette and always does the same number for 2 consecutive draws (Double) on a plain white slip as the coupon doesn't facilitate doubles.
    He has been doing this for some time and never had a winner........................ until today.
    Staked €1 double for same number in 2 consecutive draws.
    His number came out twice today and up to the counter he goes expecting to get paid €1296 in winnings.

    Staff said "you can't do that bet".
    Punter "I've been doing it for months here".
    Staff "You can't do a double on roulette!"
    Punter "Why not?"
    Staff "Eh, not sure but it's not available on the coupon"
    Punter "I know that, that's why I do them on a plain white slip.
    I've been doing same bet for months and nobody has said anything about the other bets until now as I have won".

    Will he or should he get paid?
    The odds won't change so he could have had €1 on his number and then placed the €36 winnings on the same number at same price (35/1) in the
    next draw.

    My thoughts are yes he should but as it's Ladbrokes he may have a problem/long wait.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭ Hercule Poirot


    Not knowing much about the legal side of gambling I'd presume that the fact they allowed him to put the bet on is testament to the fact they've "offered" him the odds

    Technically you can bet on anything if a bookie is willing to give up odds on the outcome and accept your stake

    If he can prove he's put losing bets of the same nature on in the past then I'd threaten to go the media, no one like bookie who accepts your bet on condition it loses and then cries foul when you win


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭✭✭ scanbox


    I worked in boylesports for a few months and had a few customers that used to do these same bets every day. With boyles, there is a way of translating the bets into the computer on just the plain white slips. I'd imagine ladbrokes have a similar system... Hopefully he gets paid!


  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ BoroMan32




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭ Juwwi


    He definitely should get paid , it isn't a related double .

    I'd say he will but it is ladbrokes after all .


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    Ladbrokes said NO!
    Makes no sense as the odds don't change and a draw has no bearing on the next one.
    They say it states in their rules no rollovers on roulette?
    Didn't hear if they paid him split stake on both or voided it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭ Hercule Poirot


    okidoki987 wrote: »
    Ladbrokes said NO!
    Makes no sense as the odds don't change and a draw has no bearing on the next one.
    They say it states in their rules no rollovers on roulette?
    Didn't hear if they paid him split stake on both or voided it.

    So why did they take his money for months until he won? Can he prove he has losing bets of the same type? At the very least I'd be demanding a refund of all the losing bets of that's the case


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,049 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    The lesson here is he’s a mug, they will take every € he wants to throw across their counter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ BoroMan32


    Taken from https://help.ladbrokes.com/s/shop-rules - It seems they're suggesting the third rule from the bottom means you can't do a double.


    OTC Roulette Rules Summary (Republic of Ireland Only)

    OTC Roulette is an over the counter version of roulette, based on the principles of a standard roulette game and standard roulette wheel and is available in all Ladbrokes shops in the Republic of Ireland

    OTC Roulette results are delivered through an independent random number generator to which Ladbrokes have no access to and is subject to rigorous third party certification

    Bets are struck at the counter using specific OTC Roulette slips contained within the shops

    Unless otherwise stated, the next event will always be deemed as the one which the bet is live for

    Bets on the next event may be accepted only up to the official off time

    The minimum stake per bet is €1 per event, with a maximum payout for any one bet of €10,000

    Only results displayed on the Roulette screen after the event are valid and will stand. If for any reason an event or result is not displayed, bets on that event will be void

    Only bets listed here are accepted on OTC Roulette – Single number, streets, rows, odd/even, high/low and red/black

    Any other bet type will be deemed void

    Ambiguous Bets will be deemed void


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    Only bets listed here are accepted on OTC Roulette – Single number, streets, rows, odd/even, high/low and red/black

    Based on that he should go back and ask for all his other bet stakes back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ BoroMan32


    okidoki987 wrote: »
    Based on that he should go back and ask for all his other bet stakes back.

    Well, yes. If you can't win, they you shouldn't be able to lose.

    He could do worse than contacting Paul Fairhead ([email protected]) - who can be excellent in helping punters get paid when there's a dispute etc. He's on twitter too (@boycottbetfred)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭ ArtyC


    He should contact ibas


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭ FishOnABike


    They may be trying, post fact, to strictly apply the Bets are struck at the counter using specific OTC Roulette slips contained within the shops rule but then you can bet on anything if a bookie is willing to give up odds on the outcome and accept your stake and he does have the slip to show that the bookie has accepted the bet.

    To me it's no different to a bookies policy of the outcome in horse racing is according to turf club rules and a punter putting an accumulator on two separate races.

    Someone better informed might be able to advise if the transaction could be viewed as a valid contract and the bookie being obliged to honor the contract with their client. Although in the back of my mind there's something about there being no obligation whatsoever to pay out on any betting / gambling even though that would be very poor form and bad for business.

    For the potential cost of negative publicity over €1296 in winnings the bookies could lose out more in the medium to long term by not paying out than they would by paying out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,859 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    Punter should stick the issue on Twitter.

    The worst publicity a bookmaker can get is the non payment of bets.

    He should at least get his stake back as he was backing something that could never be won by the looks of it!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭ IAMAMORON


    He's goosed. What is he doing hanging around Ladbrokes looking for a double on Roulette anyway? It sounds like a load of crap tbh, I simply don't believe anyone could be such a fool, you may as well be backing the computer motor cars. It is massively rigged in the bookies favour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Marcelo Brave Scrapbook


    Unless using the LOLN (requires very large data sets), or some sort of roulette system e.g. Martingale/JB/Hollandish (none of which offer an advantage, only a slight risk reduction and moderate oods). Or table physics advantage (not available in digital).

    He may as well be playing the lotto. At least with the lotto it’s a real-world event on a physical machine, rather than a virtual RNG. Odds for the Same Number in a Row:

    EU US
    1˟ 37 / 38
    2˟ 1,369 / 1,444
    3˟ 50,653 / 54,872
    4˟ 1,874,161 / 2,085,136
    5˟ 69,343,957 / 79,235,168
    6˟ 2,565,726,409 / 3,010,936,384

    Ideally should be getting 1,444 (if 0+00) for 2˟ (no idea if Lads use the American^ table).
    So already loosing an edge if able to get 1,296 (only 89.75069252077542% true value^).


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