Hand built wheels are they the way to go?

The Noble Nudge

Just need a few opinions...
Have busted entry level....Aksiums, Fulcrums (mostly rear)
Have busted middle of the road...C17 Zondas (mostly rear)

The lifetime of the Zondas are similar to the Aksiums if not less in my experience.(the plus they are serviceable but will cost near the same as entry level ones)

Is it time to go twice the price on factory built or get them built by someone..
Can only imagine what i term expensive wheels (over €400) that they are built for "racing" so will be very light in terms of keeping the weight of the product to a minimum

Im also looking at the Hope brand that keeps coming up in conversation..but yet again the bomb proof word doesn't really work for me in wheel terms.

Cheers...

cdaly_

Check out commuter/tourer wheels from rose bikes. You'll get sorted with strong 32 spoke wheels for under €200.

Chips Lovell

Once you pass a certain price point, wheels start becoming less durable, not more.

You're paying for lighter weights, more expensive materials, more elaborate engineering.

When you say "busted" what exactly do you mean?

07Lapierre

Depends on why your wheels don't last. I had a set of Ksyrium wheels for years and I only changed them when the rims wore out.

magicbastarder

when you say busted them - rim failure, bearing failure...?

Daroxtar

If you're going hand built, check out somewhere like https://thecycleclinic.co.uk.
He builds a lot of wheels on Kinlin (same as Hunt use) and H+Son rims and caters to individual requirements.

equivariant

If you are a heavy rider (like me) then I think you can expect the wear out aksiums pretty quickly (I typically go through a set each year). I think a lot of wheels are not built for 90kg riders on Irish roads. I'm told that ksyriums are much more durable. On the other hand a new set of aksiums each year is not that much to pay.

Alek

Check out commuter/tourer wheels from rose bikes.

They are strong by having 36 spokes, but the built quality is questionable from my experience.

secman

Nudge,

Your problem is not the wheels, you need more road bikes, summer, winter, inbetween one. That way you won't be busting wheels

ednwireland

busted every pair of hand built wheels ive owned. wore out my ksyrium sl two years so far on zondas. hand built touring rear from spa cycles is out of true at the moment.

Plastik

I made the move to hand built wheels back in September 2016 after I destroyed a rear rim on a Campag Khamsin on a sunken pothole/drain cover commuting one morning while in the bus lane on the N11. I had recently serviced the hub and it irked me that the wheel was effectively waste even though the hub, the freehub, and spokes were all fine. So I had a set of Ambrosio Zenith hubs laced to Mavic Open Pro's in 32/32. I've had the front rebuilt twice - after an incident with a car, and again recently with a H Plus Son Archtype after I wore through the rim, and I've had the rear rebuilt once after wearing through.

It all depends on what you want from your wheels. Are they for racing, commuting, or otherwise? All in, I think these set me back probably close to the price of Zondas. And there's some will probably think that's crazy, but when a Zonda rear rim wears out a replacement wheel is damn near €300. My guy laced a new €50 Open Pro to my smoothly running hub for about €75 all-in, and I stuck another 15,000km on it.

In 32/32 guise they're not going to set the world alight in terms of weight (about 1700g), or looks, but they have essentially been bombproof for me. I'm commuting five days a week, year round, on a traffic-light heavy 45km round trip so the wheels get plenty of grind. With the reduced tension on the increased spoke count they are very comfortable. I popped a rear nipple a few weeks ago and the wheel didn't even go out of true enough that I needed to adjust the brake pads.

Large bottle small glass

https://dcrwheels.co.uk/
https://www.stradawheels.co.uk/
http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/
https://www.huntbikewheels.com/
https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/pages/wheelbuilding
http://www.harryrowland.co.uk/
https://www.justridingalong.com/
https://23mm.co.uk/23mm-wheels/

There's a few UK wheelbuilders; list out what you want from your wheels and email and few of those. For full time professional wheel builder building a strong reliable wheelset, once you don't have silly weight weenie requirements, is pretty easy.

Most of the wheels you listed are made to a price point, with relatively low spoke count and weight. Something is going to give.

I bought lightly used wheels in 2014 built by Bee Cycles; H plus son archetype rims, cheap Ambrosio hub on front(maybe Miche in reality) and 7800 on rear. Front has about 40k km on it without being touched and rear rim wore out at 25k or so and has since had a new rim. They have got dogs abuse, light cc touring, countless km of very rough boreens.

Currently using tiagra hub with db460 rims which I built myself (and I'm a complete amateur) which I ride on gravel bike which only get the worst of abuse. All trouble free.

Take a slight weight penalty, pay a professional to build something he/she is happy with in terms of reliability and ease of servicing and enjoy trouble free cycling.

The market is full of sh1te; was out with a friend on a brand new full ultegra advanced defy on Sunday. 10km in a rear spoke goes pop. On a 2k plus bike, that not good enough but really common ime.

The Noble Nudge

secman wrote: »

Nudge,

Your problem is not the wheels, you need more road bikes, summer, winter, inbetween one. That way you won't be busting wheels

All 3 are giving up the ghost at the same time Secman....
Might be back on the MTB soon enough:D

New bike is on the list needless to say

The Noble Nudge

Thanks for the reply's will check them out...
Busted as in spokes pinging...DB7's discs got 3 weeks before 1st spoke snapped...and several more since...only 6 months cycling on them as its the winter bike...Rotors melted to oblivion I descend like a demon to be fair
Busted on the Zondas...Free hub, bearings so far...never checked the rim as was just building 1 bike from 2 got to the cassette and had to lever each ring off so would imagine if the rotors on the disc bike are anything to go by the rims are shot too at a guess. (1 year old)
No racing so to speak more sportives and events weight wise above 85kg at times...
I do however do a lot of climbing more or less every 2nd night which is a factor but when talking to others with 2 and 3 years cycling with no issues are they just not cycling the bike as much.
I've a brand new set of Aksiums so think im selling them but dont want to throw good money after bad.
If I can get away with spending half the money for the same result in only a year why spend the extra on better wheels and just take them as disposable. I had moved away from them hoping the zondas would be the answer...coupled with the Irish road and weather etc etc...

Chips Lovell

Bearings and freehubs will need to be replaced periodically on pretty much any set of wheels, hand built or factory built

On wheels I have in heavy rotation, I'd go through at least one freehub a year and maybe have to replace the bearings once every two years.

The odd broken spoke will occur from bad luck/potholes. If its happening regularly, i.e. more than once or twice in the wheel's lifespan, it's a sign of a badly built/designed wheel.

The Noble Nudge

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Bearings and freehubs will need to be replaced periodically on pretty much any set of wheels, hand built or factory built

On wheels I have in heavy rotation, I'd go through at least one freehub a year and maybe have to replace the bearings once every two years.

The odd broken spoke will occur from bad luck/potholes. If its happening regularly, i.e. more than once or twice in the wheel's lifespan, it's a sign of a badly built/designed wheel.

Ah yeah understandable I ride the bike a fair bit...every 6 months though is a bit excessive or wheels are just pure sh1t

doozerie

The Noble Nudge wrote: »

Thanks for the reply's will check them out...
Busted as in spokes pinging...DB7's discs got 3 weeks before 1st spoke snapped...and several more since...only 6 months cycling on them as its the winter bike...Rotors melted to oblivion I descend like a demon to be fair
Busted on the Zondas...Free hub, bearings so far...never checked the rim as was just building 1 bike from 2 got to the cassette and had to lever each ring off so would imagine if the rotors on the disc bike are anything to go by the rims are shot too at a guess. (1 year old)
No racing so to speak more sportives and events weight wise above 85kg at times...
I do however do a lot of climbing more or less every 2nd night which is a factor but when talking to others with 2 and 3 years cycling with no issues are they just not cycling the bike as much.
I've a brand new set of Aksiums so think im selling them but dont want to throw good money after bad.
If I can get away with spending half the money for the same result in only a year why spend the extra on better wheels and just take them as disposable. I had moved away from them hoping the zondas would be the answer...coupled with the Irish road and weather etc etc...

Wearing out rims within a year seems very extreme. As does wearing out rotors in a short space of time. It suggests that either your brake pads are contaminated with something abrasive (I've encountered that with rim pads but not disc brake pads), or you are spending a lot of time on the brakes. They really should last a lot longer than that.

Having to lever cogs off a freehub is a common thing with aluminium freehubs and cassettes with individual rings. It's no indication of quality, or lack of, in the components, and no indication of the state of health of the freehub itself, it's just an inevitability with that combination.

As mentioned already, wearing out or breaking hubs, spokes, or rims of many factory built wheels usually leaves you with a wheel that either can't be fixed at all due to replacement parts just not being available, or a wheel that is ludicrously expensive to repair. In either case the wheel probably goes straight to landfill, which is never a good thing. Truly disposable, truly a terrible choice if you know you'll be doing this regularly.

One of the big advantages of hand-built wheels is that they can be built from stock parts which are easily sourced and affordable to replace/have replaced as needed. Over their lifetime, which can be many many years (good hubs will go forever if looked after, spokes in good condition can be re-used many times, rims are consumables that will have to be replaced as they wear or break but suitable rims should last quite a while), they will cost a lot less than disposable factory-built wheels and keep landfill to a minimum too.

irishrover99

I have a set of zondas 2.5 years now, this will be the 3rd summer using them and mostly only in good weather and they are still going strong.
I had the bearings replaced last year for about 30 euros, not sure how many were changed but the wheels easily have over 10000km on them.
I use aksiums in the winter.

The Noble Nudge

irishrover99 wrote: »

I have a set of zondas 2.5 years now, this will be the 3rd summer using them and mostly only in good weather and they are still going strong.
I had the bearings replaced last year for about 30 euros, not sure how many were changed but the wheels easily have over 10000km on them.
I use aksiums in the winter.

Im a tiny bit heavier than you Irishrover at a guess

jive

Plastik wrote: »

I made the move to hand built wheels back in September 2016 after I.....

unrelated but how do you find that newboiler bag? thinking of purchasing one

The Noble Nudge

doozerie wrote: »

Wearing out rims within a year seems very extreme. As does wearing out rotors in a short space of time. It suggests that either your brake pads are contaminated with something abrasive (I've encountered that with rim pads but not disc brake pads), or you are spending a lot of time on the brakes. They really should last a lot longer than that.

Having to lever cogs off a freehub is a common thing with aluminium freehubs and cassettes with individual rings. It's no indication of quality, or lack of, in the components, and no indication of the state of health of the freehub itself, it's just an inevitability with that combination.


After checking the rims they are still good thankfully...
Free hub with some filing will get another few months out of it..
I bought the bike last year with the understanding it was sold with Ultegra but on closer inspection the cassette was only 105....
As for the rotors having no experience other then the mtb with them before now...they might of been contaminated and it was winter use (but was very mild this year) it might just be the quality..Shimano 160mm icetech

The investigation continues...
A hand built set looks like the way to go....

magicbastarder

irishrover99 wrote: »

I have a set of zondas 2.5 years now, this will be the 3rd summer using them and mostly only in good weather and they are still going strong.
I had the bearings replaced last year for about 30 euros, not sure how many were changed but the wheels easily have over 10000km on them.
I use aksiums in the winter.

my front aksium has 13 or 14k of all weather cycling on it, and is still sweet as a nut. i replaced the back because of an annoying intermittent creak which is due to a design flaw, but it's still perfectly mechanically sound.

Alek

I have one wheelset with aluminium freehub. After one season (5000km?) I could not take the cassette off at all, even the 11T was gouged deeply into the splines - 1x setup may have something to do with it, but still.

Note that Shimano never designed its spline system to be used on anything else but steel, the splines are simply too shallow to take this kind of forces without deformation. This combined with my weight and amount I go uphill makes me stay with steel hubs, or ones with steel inserts (see the Novatec ABG below) only, and I would not recommend an alu one even for lighter riders. Same with alu nipples in wheels, but that's another story

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/medium/42419.jpg

No such issue with the deep Campagnolo splines, BTW.


RE: rotors, my ICE tech worn out surprisingly fast too. I do a lot of braking as half of my mileage is fast commuting in the city centre, so I wear them at faster rate than most, but the cheap&cheerful Lifeline rotors I run now seem to be much more durable.

Plastik

jive wrote: »

unrelated but how do you find that newboiler bag? thinking of purchasing one

The one is the 8-10L version and it's ok once completely full and cinched down tightly. It flops about a bit and looks a bit flacid otherwise sometimes. If for a bike packing trip of some sort I would go for the 12L version. I used it for a few days cc-touring on the WAW and it was just about big enough for the job, but the extra size of the bigger one would have been handy.

cdaly_

Weepsie wrote: »

I've a pair of handbuilts done in Humphries about 2.5 years ago. They're my daily wheels and have done everything from 10km-220km in all weather and all roads. Need a check now and then, but they're damn near flawless in all that time.

Same here. Rear was built by Thorn cycles when I bought the bike 5 years ago, front was built by me also 5 years ago. I've since replaced the front rim for wear, replaced the bearings in the rear and trued them probably once in that time. Around 20,000k on them at this stage I think...