Contest NCT approval

Potential-Monke

Hi all. I recently purchased a second hand car (05 S40) last Monday the 15th. I went for this one as it had a fresh NCT from the 9th of April. Typically, I let the lights on the following day and the battery went completely dead. It wouldn't start again, even with a new battery (everything else worked, just no ignition) I only just got it back today after a week of messing about, seems the immobiliser disconnected from the ECU or something and had to get a software update. I drove it from Thurles to Limerick on the Monday, and a 30 minute drive to work on Tuesday, and it's been in the garage since, so very little mileage since I got it.

However, when I collected it this morning, the mechanic said there was about €2k more worth of work. The clutch and something else connected needs to be done soon, but I know the NCT wouldn't catch that, but he said it should not have passed due to the bushings on the back wheels needing replacing, but more importantly the tie rods on the front need replacing very soon, and can't understand how it passed.

I trust this mechanic. So, I am now of the opinion that someone may have been paid to pass this. Is there anywhere I can contest this? Is it even an option? I had to get a loan to get this car, and now I'm screwed. I just want my money back, because if this car didn't have an NCT I wouldn't have even looked at it. And if this is one of the ways of helping me, I want to try it, as it was a private sale (from someone who buys and sells cars, but is not a dealership so no legal warranty).

Any and all help much appreciated. I bought the car for €950, and I know it's not a lot of money, but it's a lot to me, and money I have yet to pay for over the next few months, so I can't afford to get it all fixed up, and I can't afford to buy a different car unless I get my money back.

Thanks in advance!

Alanstrainor

Do you have the NCT Pass sheet? With all the readings for each of the tests? Perhaps it was just barely within margins? There is no way you're going to get anywhere with the NCT suggesting that a car of that age was passed fraudulently...

bazz26

Did the mechanic not spot some of these things when you were interested in purchasing the car?

Has the NCT cert been verified as genuine?

Potential-Monke

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Do you have the NCT Pass sheet? With all the readings for each of the tests? Perhaps it was just barely within margins? There is no way you're going to get anywhere with the NCT suggesting that a car of that age was passed fraudulently...

I do, but I don't have it with me. According to the mechanic, the tie rods at least should have failed. I'll see if I can get it uploaded later.

bazz26 wrote: »

Did the mechanic not spot some of these things when you were interested in purchasing the car?

Has the NCT cert been verified as genuine?

I didn't have a mechanic with me when I purchased it, stupidly believing that with a fresh NCT it should be at the very least ok. And how does one verify that? Ring them up?

Edit: Just checked on the NCT website and it's stating valid.

bazz26

I'm afraid not getting the car checked over before buying seems to have been the major mistake here. It having a NCT (fresh or not) means it was roadworthy at the time of testing but doesn't really guarantee you anything.

You can put the reg into the NCT website and it will tell you if the car is due a test or not.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Extremely unlikely to succeed. Applus will state that anything could’ve happened to it since it left the NCT center and you’ll have no way to prove it didn’t.

ED E

This is on you I'm afraid, you gave the NCT far too much credit. Bringing a mechanic to view the car was a crucial step skipped.

Potential-Monke

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Extremely unlikely to succeed. Applus will state that anything could’ve happened to it since it left the NCT center and you’ll have no way to prove it didn’t.

That would be my thinking, but if the parts were bad enough, another 50-100 miles or so couldn't have pushed it that far?

I'm not expecting anything, just looking into all my options as I'm out of options right now. It's driving, it's insured and NCT'd (waiting on the log book to tax it), but god knows how long for. If there was any way of getting it back to this lad to get my money back, I'll try it!

jimgoose

I'm afraid you're doomed. What you are describing will be less productive than attacking a lunatic asylum with a banana.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm not expecting anything, just looking into all my options as I'm out of options right now. It's driving, it's insured and NCT'd (waiting on the log book to tax it), but god knows how long for. If there was any way of getting it back to this lad to get my money back, I'll try it!

Just one further thought. If it was the credit union you borrowed the money off, you might be able to get the loan topped up if you bring in a written quotation off the mechanic. You could keep to the same repayments and just extend the term. Same with the bank, once they’re confident in your ability to repay.

jimmycrackcorm

The NCT is a red herring. You bought a 14 year old car for 950. It's enevitable that you will have to spend money on it sooner than later.

banie01

An NCT only proves that a car was presented to a test centre and passed the minimum roadworthy requirement as of that particular point in time.

It doesn't mean that a car that left an NCT centre and hit a kerb as it turned the corner is still roadworthy.
It doesn't mean an unscrupulous seller could not replace parts to allow the car to pass the test and then remove them again(not that it would be worth the effort).

It doesn't warrant a car to be in a roadworthy condition for the duration of the certs validity.

Buying a 2nd hand car on the basis of a fresh NCT and expecting that to confer some form of liability on the NCT tester/Applus, is without meaning to sound a prick.
Stupidity of the highest order.

antodeco

Just to play devils advocate here, but im just wondering why you arent contesting the mechanics diagnosis? NCT get paid regardless of a pass or fail, versus a mechanic gets paid, depending on how much work "needs" to be done...

Potential-Monke

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Just one further thought. If it was the credit union you borrowed the money off, you might be able to get the loan topped up if you bring in a written quotation off the mechanic. You could keep to the same repayments and just extend the term. Same with the bank, once they’re confident in your ability to repay.

Private loan. Thanks to a mortgage which increased by 50% I have a lot of negative equity from the sale and most financial institutions won't touch me now. C'est la vie.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The NCT is a red herring. You bought a 14 year old car for 950. It's enevitable that you will have to spend money on it sooner than later.

I understood that, and I've no problem with having to pay for general repairs. I'm just wondering how it passed if the tie rods/bushings are as bad as the mechanic is saying.

banie01 wrote: »

An NCT only proves that a car was presented to a test centre and passed the minimum roadworthy requirement as of that particular point in time.

It doesn't mean that a car that left an NCT centre and hit a kerb as it turned the corner is still roadworthy.
It doesn't mean an unscrupulous seller could not replace parts to allow the car to pass the test and then remove them again(not that it would be worth the effort).

It doesn't warrant a car to be in a roadworthy condition for the duration of the certs validity.

Buying a 2nd hand car on the basis of a fresh NCT and expecting that to confer some form of liability on the NCT tester/Applus, is without meaning to sound a prick.
Stupidity of the highest order.

Well, you did manage to sound like a prick But I get ya. The suggestion that he swapped out parts sounds the most plausible to me right now.

antodeco wrote: »

Just to play devils advocate here, but im just wondering why you arent contesting the mechanics diagnosis? NCT get paid regardless of a pass or fail, versus a mechanic gets paid, depending on how much work "needs" to be done...

I've been to dodgy mechanics, and I would usually think this way, and I probably will send it to another mechanic to check, but this mechanic came highly recommended from a good friend who has been dealing with him for many years, and I've asked around and have only heard good things about him. I can't see why they'd tell me there's a bill of €2k of work to be done on a car that was bought for €950 knowing that I most likely won't get the work done.

Again, just checking my options, not expecting anything, and currently in the pit of depression over it.

Alanstrainor

But the car is driving okay now right? The clutch is slipping, but you knew this. So it's possible to drive for a short while with this fault. As for the other things noted, is anything actually affecting the driving of the car? Just drive on for a little while if it is otherwise fine, and look into pricing for the clutch etc a bit later.

tipptom

Get the tie rod ends done as soon as you can get up a few quid and drive on,you could get a year out of that clutch with a bit of luck and the car will have paid for itself if no more problems present.

Wouldn't waste my time about the nct or the fella you bought it from,just put it down to experience and put it behind you as you are only annoying yourself with stress about it.

Isambard

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The NCT is a red herring. You bought a 14 year old car for 950. It's enevitable that you will have to spend money on it sooner than later.

I'd say the usual reason for cars being for sale in Ireland is that they need work.

Potential-Monke

It's driving ok, but I can hear the knocking so will get them done soon. As ye all noted, I'm probably screwed for any comeback. On the plus, the cruise control which wasn't working now is! But the CD player no longer works, so only have crap radio.

I went back to the mechanic for the list:

Clutch and flywheel (put 'not good' beside it)- €1500+
EGR and glow plugs fault - can fix by telling the ECU there's no fault
Small diesel leak from injectors
Rear 2 x droppings
Front 2 x wishbone bushes (big ones)
Wiper washer tank cracked so won't retain water (can probably fix myself with duct tape)
Fan belt needs changing asap (75% tear across parts of it)

All in all over 2k worth of work. I don't have the pass sheet, just the cert. 2 pass sheets for older times though.

dkd21

I see this argument quite a lot that the NCT hasn't picked up on things that need replacing . The NCT is a safety condition check with an allowance for moderate wear in certain components not limited to front inner tie rods and suspension bushings/links/balljoints are all components that have to have an excessive amount of wear to fail . A mechanic in a workshop doing service work sees these items as end of their service life when any amount of wear is found . Lots of mechanics condemn the NCT's opinion on components when they no little or nothing about the testers guidelines for passing/failing such components and come to the ill conceived idea the trader/owner is in cahoots with a vehicle tester for the vehicle to have passed . Unknowing people these days are very fast to cast aspersions .

Del2005

All that will happen if you appeal the NCT is that they will retest it and most likely fail it. So don't go near them.

The person who you bought the car from is a trader, they are selling cars, and you have rights under the sale of goods act, but getting the judgement is the easy part. Have you got back to them about the issues to see if they will do anything?

the_syco

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Clutch and flywheel (put 'not good' beside it)- €1500+
EGR and glow plugs fault - can fix by telling the ECU there's no fault
Small diesel leak from injectors
Rear 2 x droppings
Front 2 x wishbone bushes (big ones)
Wiper washer tank cracked so won't retain water (can probably fix myself with duct tape)
Fan belt needs changing asap (75% tear across parts of it)

All in all over 2k worth of work. I don't have the pass sheet, just the cert. 2 pass sheets for older times though.

2k worth of work, or 2k worth of parts + labour on top of that?

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Any and all help much appreciated. I bought the car for €950, and I know it's not a lot of money, but it's a lot to me, and money I have yet to pay for over the next few months, so I can't afford to get it all fixed up, and I can't afford to buy a different car unless I get my money back.

TBH, drive it into the ground if you can, as I'm wondering if the car was put through the NCT until it passed, and then sold. How many previous drivers?

cpoh1

I can see the headlines now: Car over 10 years old costing less than €1k needs investment shocker!

The clutch is skewing your thinking - the rest of that work is a few hundred quid and normal for older cars on top of servicing costs. Its naive to buy an older car for little money and expect to run maintenance free afterwards!!!

Nikki Sixx

I do feel sorry for you op. I am pretty sure too that cars are illegally passed when a wheeler dealer knows a worker at an n.c.t. Centre. The second hand market is full of chancer Del Boy types, I know because I’ve gone to see their car on DoneDeal.

Squidgy Black

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's driving ok, but I can hear the knocking so will get them done soon. As ye all noted, I'm probably screwed for any comeback. On the plus, the cruise control which wasn't working now is! But the CD player no longer works, so only have crap radio.

I went back to the mechanic for the list:

Clutch and flywheel (put 'not good' beside it)- €1500+
EGR and glow plugs fault - can fix by telling the ECU there's no fault
Small diesel leak from injectors
Rear 2 x droppings
Front 2 x wishbone bushes (big ones)
Wiper washer tank cracked so won't retain water (can probably fix myself with duct tape)
Fan belt needs changing asap (75% tear across parts of it)

All in all over 2k worth of work. I don't have the pass sheet, just the cert. 2 pass sheets for older times though.

1500 for a clutch and flywheel is an outrageous price, and would seriously question your mechanics quote on that. Clutch kit and flywheel should only cost around 6-700 quid so if he's sticking 800+ labour on top of that I'd run a mile.

Potential-Monke

I was expecting some general maintenance, just the price I was quoted shocked me and my anxious mind went into overdrive and started clutching at any possibility to make things right. Brought it to my own mechanic this morning and, like Squidgy above, he thinks the prices quoted are way too high. I've it booked in to get the fan belt done Monday, and he has confirmed that the flywheel at least needs changing, but reckons all the work can be done over a few months and wouldn't cost anything near the price quoted above, so a bit of good news today.

Will keep ye all updated, but thanks to all your replies, I know it's pointless going after the NCT. Thanks y'all!