Does a list of net cost/price of new electric cars (minus incentives) exist?

aismac

I'm trying to find the net cost of the new electric cars on the market, together with buying older models new too. By chance does anyone know of a list of prices after VRT rebate and grants are subtracted? I'm just a bit confused with the various prices and incentives out there - I just want to know what the bottom line cost will be.... I know I can work it out myself eventually but thought I'd ask here first just in case!

Thanks for any info,

Ais

Gumbo

aismac wrote: »

I'm trying to find the net cost of the new electric cars on the market, together with buying older models new too. By chance does anyone know of a list of prices after VRT rebate and grants are subtracted? I'm just a bit confused with the various prices and incentives out there - I just want to know what the bottom line cost will be.... I know I can work it out myself eventually but thought I'd ask here first just in case!

Thanks for any info,

Ais

It's not that confusing to be honest. There is not a various amount of incentives.


There are only 2 :

1. SEAI Grant of €5000
2. VRT Rebate of €5000 (For easy figures, its actually about 4,980)

Subtract those from the RRP and your done.
Or simply look at the prices on the manufacturers websites.

Have you got a particular car in mind?

Mickeroo

Important to point out before you go looking that the prices you see on the websites are usually inclusive of the two incentives above.

So when you look up the a Hyundai Kona electric for example you will likely see a price of €39,000 or so which is the actual on the road price. Technically the RRP is more like €49,000.

Soarer

Does every new EV start life over €35k to avail of the whole €5k VRT rebate?

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

Does every new EV start life over €35k to avail of the whole €5k VRT rebate?

At the moment they do. But this wasn't always the case (the old model Leaf were sold well under €20k for the last few years) and it won't be the case again in future when we get cheaper EVs

And it's not a €5k VRT rebate. It's zero VRT up to a value (OMSP to be precise) of €35k and 14% over the balance above that

@OP - just check the dealers websites and you will see the RRP, optional extas, delivery charges. Then there is your trade in / scrappage and room for negotiation, depending a lot on the car and on your skills. If in doubt, ring a dealer.

Mickeroo

Tbh, I get the feeling if the government pulled both incentives the on the road price of the cars wouldn't change at all.

dashoonage

Mickeroo wrote: »

Tbh, I get the feeling if the government pulled both incentives the on the road price of the cars wouldn't change at all.

if it did it would hugely damage EV sales in my opinion. No one is paying 50k for a new i3 like or 40k for a new leaf.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

At the moment they do. But this wasn't always the case (the old model Leaf were sold well under €20k for the last few years) and it won't be the case again in future when we get cheaper EVs

And it's not a €5k VRT rebate. It's zero VRT up to a value (OMSP to be precise) of €35k and 14% over the balance above that

@OP - just check the dealers websites and you will see the RRP, optional extas, delivery charges. Then there is your trade in / scrappage and room for negotiation, depending a lot on the car and on your skills. If in doubt, ring a dealer.

Yeah, I know that.
It was just easier for me in my foggy state to say rebate.

Soarer

dashoonage wrote: »

if it did it would hugely damage EV sales in my opinion. No one is paying 50k for a new i3 like or 40k for a new leaf.

You'd be surprised.

People are paying nearly that now for an i3 with incentives (after they spec it up).
The new L62 will be ~circa €40k after incentives, and I'd say that'll fly out the door.

slave1

Mickeroo wrote: »

Tbh, I get the feeling if the government pulled both incentives the on the road price of the cars wouldn't change at all.

dashoonage wrote: »

if it did it would hugely damage EV sales in my opinion. No one is paying 50k for a new i3 like or 40k for a new leaf.

Think you're missing his point, RRP €50k less incentives of €10k = OTR price of €40k

Remove incentive and RRP = €40k

So same OTR price

KCross

aismac wrote: »

I'm trying to find the net cost of the new electric cars on the market, together with buying older models new too. By chance does anyone know of a list of prices after VRT rebate and grants are subtracted? I'm just a bit confused with the various prices and incentives out there - I just want to know what the bottom line cost will be.... I know I can work it out myself eventually but thought I'd ask here first just in case!

Thanks for any info,

Ais

What EV's are you interested in?

Leaf and Ioniq are about ~€28k after govt incentives and the prices they have on their websites are the after incentive prices so its close enough to what you will pay.

The only other variable is that you ocassionally get scrappage schemes thrown in also but that's not a govt incentive but something the manufacturer offers and those incentives come and go.


Other EV's currently available...

Zoe <-- ??
eGolf <-- off the top of my head I think its about €36k OTR
Kona <-- €38k
Niro <-- Two versions.... 39kWh for ~€35k and the 64kWh version is likely to be ~€39k
i3 <-- ?? €40k+, I think.

I've probably missed a few others and you have, of course the expensive end... eTron, Tesla, Porsche etc.... ~€95k+

unkel

KCross wrote: »

i3 <-- ?? €40k+, I think.

Surprisingly, the new 2019 model with the bigger 120Ah battery (310km WLTP range) has a RRP of just €36k

Making it actually very good value for money for a premium car with a longish range compared with econoboxes with a lot less range like Ioniq and Leaf. Provided you can hack the looks and you only need four seats...

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

Surprisingly, the new 2019 model with the bigger 120Ah battery (310km WLTP range) has a RRP of just €36k

Making it actually very good value for money for a premium car with a longish range compared with econoboxes with a lot less range like Ioniq and Leaf. Provided you can hack the looks and you only need four seats...

And the doors!

Edit: Actually, the new lower pricing doesn't seem to have trickled down to the older versions. They're still making good money.

Mike9832

Soarer wrote: »

And the doors!

Edit: Actually, the new lower pricing doesn't seem to have trickled down to the older versions. They're still making good money.

They foolishly dropped rex

Rex with 44kWh at 38k would have been good value

unkel

Mike9832 wrote: »

They foolishly dropped rex

Smart move. Nobody in their right mind anywhere in Europe would want to pay thousands more to carry around the dead weight of an ancient ICE that costs big bucks to service and makes the car a lot slower and less fun to drive when your range is 310km. Unless of course your 310km trip brings you nowhere near any reliable CCS chargers. In the whole of Europe...


...this might only happen in Ireland in 2019

Gumbo

Mike9832 wrote: »

They foolishly dropped rex

Rex with 44kWh at 38k would have been good value

Getting rid of the Rex was a great move IMO

dashoonage

The rex doesnt suit everyone but for some its the only way they could move to an ev. I need to be able to go at the drop of a hat and waiting 30 min for a charge isnt an option , yet id be able to use an EV for 95% of my driving.

Soarer

dashoonage wrote: »

The rex doesnt suit everyone but for some its the only way they could move to an ev. I need to be able to go at the drop of a hat and waiting 30 min for a charge isnt an option , yet id be able to use an EV for 95% of my driving.

Yup, I'm exactly the same.

95% of my driving would be covered by the 60ah battery.
But sometimes I have to go to site, and they're always in the arsehole of nowhere. Really don't want to be depending on trying to find a charger somewhere, so use a drop of petrol and we're away.

Mike9832

kceire wrote: »

Getting rid of the Rex was a great move IMO

If it was 60kWh+

I would agree

44kWh is a tiny battery

unkel

Mike9832 wrote: »

If it was 60kWh+

I would agree

44kWh is a tiny battery

KWh is meaningless. The i3 is very efficient, so it does have 310km range

If you need more than 310km range regularly, buy a Kona/ eNiro / Tesla.

dashoonage

unkel wrote: »

KWh is meaningless. The i3 is very efficient, so it does have 310km range

If you need more than 310km range regularly, buy a Kona/ eNiro / Tesla.

gimme money and ill buy a Tesla in the morning :P

beazee

KCross wrote: »

Other EV's currently available...

Zoe <-- ??
eGolf <-- off the top of my head I think its about €36k OTR
Kona <-- €38k
Niro <-- Two versions.... 39kWh for ~€35k and the 64kWh version is likely to be ~€39k
i3 <-- ?? €40k+, I think.

I've probably missed a few others and you have, of course the expensive end... eTron, Tesla, Porsche etc.... ~€95k+

Zoe Dynamique, 40kWh, battery owned <-- €28k

Mickeroo

beazee wrote: »

Zoe Dynamique, 40kWh, battery owned <-- €28k

I think there's a lower spec version that comes in at around 24k too.

BarryD2

dashoonage wrote: »

if it did it would hugely damage EV sales in my opinion. No one is paying 50k for a new i3 like or 40k for a new leaf.

So who is forking up this additional €10K incentive then? The taxpayer? Take away this prop and free charging at public locations and we'd get a better idea of the real costs and demand. Ditto for the wind industry, when you pay your ESB bill which is still largely based on fossil fuel stations, you're paying an extra tax to underwrite the costs of the wind industry. There's winners and losers, swings and roundabouts in all these issues.

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

KWh is meaningless. The i3 is very efficient, so it does have 310km range

If you need more than 310km range regularly, buy a Kona/ eNiro / Tesla.

Real range brother

Lucky to get 200km on the motorway

Only range that matters

unkel

Mike9832 wrote: »

Real range brother

Lucky to get 200km on the motorway

Only range that matters

Agreed. In an aerodynamic and efficient EV the range at 120km/h is close enough to WLTP. In Ioniq it is 90%

If it is just 80% in the i3 that means a 120km/h range of 250km. Or well over 2 hours even in light traffic. After which it would be foolish not to stop for a coffee, a leak, a stretching of the legs, a nap and of course the fast charge that the car needs

Sabre Man

BarryD2 wrote: »

So who is forking up this additional €10K incentive then? The taxpayer?

Nobody. It a reduced tax so nobody is getting/paying any money.

KCross

Sabre Man wrote: »

Nobody. It a reduced tax so nobody is getting/paying any money.

Not sure why you think that.

The SEAI €5k grant comes from the taxpayer (via a budget allocation) and goes to the manufacturers back pocket. How can you tag that as "nobody is getting/paying any money"?

And the €5k exemption on the VRT is tax foregone so surely that means the taxpayer has to make up the shortfall in tax somewhere else, assuming you would have bought an ICE instead.

So, yes, it is the taxpayer is paying for the €10k, imo.

pdpmur

BarryD2 wrote: »

So who is forking up this additional €10K incentive then? The taxpayer? Take away this prop and free charging at public locations and we'd get a better idea of the real costs and demand. Ditto for the wind industry, when you pay your ESB bill which is still largely based on fossil fuel stations, you're paying an extra tax to underwrite the costs of the wind industry. There's winners and losers, swings and roundabouts in all these issues.

One can always criticize the government for doing too much or doing too little, but at least it is trying to do the right thing by ev incentives and proxy carbon taxes.

In the case of the incentive, it's a revenue foregone rather than a loss, and at the moment it's very small amount by comparison with the revenue foregone by the 2008 change in annual road taxation from car value to "CO2". You can pretty much take it for granted that the current ev incentive will be scaled back in the next few years as ev's become more affordable.

In the case of your ESB bill, you (and I and everyone else) are the ultimate polluter of the atmosphere by using electricity generated by fossil fuels and so it's only right that the polluter pays.

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Agreed. In an aerodynamic and efficient EV the range at 120km/h is close enough to WLTP. In Ioniq it is 90%

If it is just 80% in the i3 that means a 120km/h range of 250km. Or well over 2 hours even in light traffic. After which it would be foolish not to stop for a coffee, a leak, a stretching of the legs, a nap and of course the fast charge that the car needs

It's not bad at all

Think it's only 38kWh useable and it's less efficient than Ioniq

I think it's closer to 200km than 250km

Still not Dublin - Limerick, Dublin - Cork etc and for nearly 40k isn't great

Should have kept rex with that small battery imo

BarryD2

pdpmur wrote: »

In the case of the incentive, it's a revenue foregone rather than a loss, and at the moment it's very small amount by comparison with the revenue foregone by the 2008 change in annual road taxation from car value to "CO2". You can pretty much take it for granted that the current ev incentive will be scaled back in the next few years as ev's become more affordable.

Yes it is an incentive and one that is underwritten by someone else. Suppose I give pocket money to our kids and I decide to double one child's allowance in order to reward some behaviour. Then I either have to cut the other kids allowances or fork out more myself. Somebody always pays for incentives.

pdpmur

BarryD2 wrote: »

Yes it is an incentive and one that is underwritten by someone else. Suppose I give pocket money to our kids and I decide to double one child's allowance in order to reward some behaviour. Then I either have to cut the other kids allowances or fork out more myself. Somebody always pays for incentives.

It's tax revenue foregone, not a grant. There is no net transfer of money. The government is neither a net recipient nor payer of money for this incentive. The government "rewards" the ev driver by not collecting VRT in the first place, but doesn't penalise other vehicle drivers or try to "balance the books" with corresponding VRT hikes.

There are many tax incentives. For example, personal pensions - the government foregoes personal tax on personal pension contributions. No money is paid out by the government for this tax incentive, it just decides not to collect the money in the first place.

The matter of the overall tax take by the government and how it is balanced through the whole economy is something that you can quiz your TD on come the next elections.