RTB not fit for purpose anymore

auditray2007

I have just gone through an adjudication myself and my complaint about noisy tenants for almost four years in the other half of this house was not upheld. The adjudicator stated that I was suffering from acute sensitive hearing and there was nothing in Housing Act 2017 which states anything about sound deadening insulation in a void partition and floors. I can hear the tenants p-ssing next door amongst other things.

The LL loaded me up with false allegations which were not upheld either. There was two cases rolled into one and the hearing lasted almost five hours. The witch LL pretended to almost pass out from the stress and didn't answer one question as she had a ex RTB adjudicator speaking for her. The only time she came to life was when she tried to get the tenant next door to say she was afraid of me and tried three times until the adjudicator had to stop her.

So after all of that and the RTB getting to fine the LL for not registering any of their tenants I ended up a lot worse off. The RTB suggest in fact that I continue to listen to people p-ssing next door and that seems to be ok with them.

The RTB used to be for the tenant but because of the housing shortage they dont want to turn would be LL's from renting. The regs have changed since 2014 when sound was mentioned . Nod nod wink wink!

I dont know whether to take it to tribunal or not!

myshirt

When it comes to being a tenant and the RTB, you have to do very, very bad to come out the wrong end. I'd leave it be. It's over.

myshirt

auditray2007 wrote: »

Glad you got it sorted OP. I have just gone through an adjudication myself and my complaint about noisy tenants for almost four years in the other half of this house was not upheld. The adjudicator stated that I was suffering from acute sensitive hearing and there was nothing in Housing Act 2017 which states anything about sound deadening insulation in a void partition and floors. I can hear the tenants p-ssing next door amongst other things.

The LL loaded me up with false allegations which were not upheld either. There was two cases rolled into one and the hearing lasted almost five hours. The witch LL pretended to almost pass out from the stress and didn't answer one question as she had a ex RTB adjudicator speaking for her. The only time she came to life was when she tried to get the tenant next door to say she was afraid of me and tried three times until the adjudicator had to stop her.

So after all of that and the RTB getting to fine the LL for not registering any of their tenants I ended up a lot worse off. The RTB suggest in fact that I continue to listen to people p-ssing next door and that seems to be ok with them.

The RTB used to be for the tenant but because of the housing shortage they dont want to turn would be LL's from renting. The regs have changed since 2014 when sound was mentioned . Nod nod wink wink!

I dont know whether to take it to tribunal or not!

Don't.

You've lost. And you don't have valid grounds. It's outrageous you took the action in the first place, I'm surprised they didn't hammer you.

amcalester

myshirt wrote: »

When it comes to being a tenant and the RTB, you have to do very, very bad to come out the wrong end. I'd leave it be. It's over.

And, if the Op does take it further and manages to win then they may get a notice to evict for renovations.

auditray2007

What are you talking about. Are you a LL or what.
How is putting up with four years of hell from someone else and a LL that was too stingy to pump a bit of foam into a partition any of my fault.

As a last resort I brought them to the RTB!!!

airy fairy

myshirt wrote: »

Don't.

You've lost. And you don't have valid grounds. It's outrageous you took the action in the first place, I'm surprised they didn't hammer you.

I agree.
What did you want the LL to do? Soundproof the property for you?
No wonder LLs are pulling out and letting the social deal with the homeless if you're dealing with tripe like these cases.
If you listen on a quiet day, in a properly built 3 bed semi, you will be able to hear toilet functions, switches, washing machines, radios, TVs and much more from next door. Ffs. What a waste of rtb time.

amcalester

auditray2007 wrote: »

What are you talking about. Are you a LL or what.
How is putting up with four years of hell from someone else and a LL that was too stingy to pump a bit of foam into a partition any of my fault.

As a last resort I brought them to the RTB!!!

What obligations was the landlord in breach of?

Graham

Mod Note

posts moved. auditray2007, stick to one thread please.

FYI it is quite likely people just disagree with you without having any kind of vested interest.

bluelamp

auditray2007 wrote: »

What are you talking about. Are you a LL or what.
How is putting up with four years of hell from someone else and a LL that was too stingy to pump a bit of foam into a partition any of my fault.

As a last resort I brought them to the RTB!!!

Four years of hell... and you didn't move? Why?

It wasn't extremely difficult to find a place in 2015

Must love the misery.

I suspect what myshirt is getting at is, taking a case to the RTB because among other things, you can hear them going to the toilet was always going to be a tough case to win. I doubt the RTB has the authority to direct a property owner to soundproof a building above what was required by building regs when it was constructed.

As a matter of interest, seen as the wall between semid’s is a party wall owned by both, why don’t you soundproof it?

auditray2007

Would you listen to people using the toilet and singing their drunken heads off at 2,3,4 or 5 in the morning. Would you listen to a spin dryer been used at those times two meters from where you sleep. Night in night out.
I DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH!!

auditray2007

auditray2007 wrote: »

Would you listen to people using the toilet and singing their drunken heads off at 2,3,4 or 5 in the morning. Would you listen to a spin dryer been used at those times two meters from where you sleep. Night in night out.
I DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH!!

So soundproof the party wall on your side.

auditray2007

Its not my property to do anything with. Are you guys having a laugh here or what

auditray2007

auditray2007 wrote: »

Its not my property to do anything with. Are you guys having a laugh here or what

Grinning certainly, I suspect most are wondering why you aren’t getting your landlord to do something about it, or moving after 4 years of hell.

amcalester

auditray2007 wrote: »

Its not my property to do anything with. Are you guys having a laugh here or what

I’ve asked this already but you didn’t answer, what obligations is the landlord in breach of?

No point ranting and raving, you have to deal in facts and if the RTB didn’t find in your favour then there’s a reason for that.

airy fairy

Your problem lies with your neighbours, they piss too loudly, they have parties, hardly something the landlord can fix.
Give the LL a break and move out if it's that bad!
If, in the unlikely event you push this further, and you make your LL soundproof the whole house with fabarooney cotton wool, you'll most likely get an eviction notice as the LL is entitled by law to, because he'd need to carry out refurbishment/repairs.
Good luck with that!

auditray2007

I was advised until I was blue in the face to take the case against the LL by Flack, Cit Info, Threshold and the RTB themselves.

Just because there is nothing in 2017 regs doesn't say it wasnt there prior to that nor is it acceptable that anyone should have to listen to that. If you say it is then you dont live in a situation like mine. You seem to want to call me petty. If LL did proper work to begin with there would be no RTB.

FYI; I have several health issues and notwithstanding the fact that there is nothing out there to rent for years now I wouldn't be able to move. My son is about to sit Uni final exams in a few months and I don't want him going through that disruption either.

Would any of you put up with musical instruments and singing at those times?

Pkiernan

auditray2007 wrote: »

I was advised until I was blue in the face to take the case against the LL by Flack, Cit Info, Threshold and the RTB themselves.

Just because there is nothing in 2017 regs doesn't say it wasnt there prior to that nor is it acceptable that anyone should have to listen to that. If you say it is then you dont live in a situation like mine. You seem to want to call me petty. If LL did proper work to begin with there would be no RTB.

FYI; I have several health issues and notwithstanding the fact that there is nothing out there to rent for years now I wouldn't be able to move. My son is about to sit Uni final exams in a few months and I don't want him going through that disruption either.

Would any of you put up with musical instruments and singing at those times?

Call the cops. Better use of your energy.

airy fairy

auditray2007 wrote: »

I was advised until I was blue in the face to take the case against the LL by Flack, Cit Info, Threshold and the RTB themselves.

Just because there is nothing in 2017 regs doesn't say it wasnt there prior to that nor is it acceptable that anyone should have to listen to that. If you say it is then you dont live in a situation like mine. You seem to want to call me petty. If LL did proper work to begin with there would be no RTB.

FYI; I have several health issues and notwithstanding the fact that there is nothing out there to rent for years now I wouldn't be able to move. My son is about to sit Uni final exams in a few months and I don't want him going through that disruption either.

Would any of you put up with musical instruments and singing at those times?

Once again, your problem lies with your neighbours.
Why should the LL soundproof the property because next door is playing an instrument?
Get your son to move out, student accommodation would be noise free....
I pity your LL, I really do.

auditray2007

Go **** yourselves. Something seriously wrong with the way ye speak to peoplr.
FYI; the only reason I am on here today is because of the RTB. I wouldnt be spending my Sunday on boards.ie only for that. Go get lives would ye!

Pkiernan

auditray2007 wrote: »

Go **** yourselves. Something seriously wrong with the way ye speak to peoplr.
FYI; the only reason I am on here today is because of the RTB. I wouldnt be spending my Sunday on boards.ie only for that. Go get lives would ye!

What does 4 stars mean?

K.Flyer

Did you ever speak with your neighbours about it?
Noisey neighbours are one of the most difficult things to deal with from any legal standpoint.
As has been said already, if the building conforms to the regulations of the day, then there is no legal obligation for either property owner to do any further remedial work, even if the same L.L. owns both properties.
Regarding appliances being used at night, for many years now people have been encouraged to use them at night to reduce the daytime load on the grid. If the apartment is on a Nightsaver billing system, then why shouldn't they avail of it.
I do sympathize to a degree, the sound installation in some buildings is atrocious, but you did put up with it for 4 years instead of just moving out years ago.
In all honesty I think you were ill-advised by whoever suggested taking it to a RTB hearing.

airy fairy

Pkiernan wrote: »

What does 4 stars mean?

Enjoy?...nah that would be 5*

You have to have sympathy with any LL trying to put up with that crap though.
Soundproof the property cause next doors baby has colic....ffs

K.Flyer

Pkiernan wrote: »

Call the cops. Better use of your energy.

Nothing they can do about noise.
They can call to the door only to be told to mind their own business and have the door closed in front of them.

Fol20

auditray2007 wrote: »

I was advised until I was blue in the face to take the case against the LL by Flack, Cit Info, Threshold and the RTB themselves.

Just because there is nothing in 2017 regs doesn't say it wasnt there prior to that nor is it acceptable that anyone should have to listen to that. If you say it is then you dont live in a situation like mine. You seem to want to call me petty. If LL did proper work to begin with there would be no RTB.

FYI; I have several health issues and notwithstanding the fact that there is nothing out there to rent for years now I wouldn't be able to move. My son is about to sit Uni final exams in a few months and I don't want him going through that disruption either.

Would any of you put up with musical instruments and singing at those times?

As YOU pointed out, there is nothing in the regs that you can dispute with. If you failed to win your case especially with the RTB bening heavily biased towards tenants, you must have had an extremely weak case. You mention that there may have been regs before 2017... Please link me to regs before 2017 as it seems like your clutching at straws to defend your case.

As others have said if this is "hell"for you, move.. its as simple as that. You say you cant move however if this has been ongoing for as long as you say it has, it was much cheaper and easier to move 5 years which you chose not to do.

Fol20

auditray2007 wrote: »

Go **** yourselves. Something seriously wrong with the way ye speak to peoplr.
FYI; the only reason I am on here today is because of the RTB. I wouldnt be spending my Sunday on boards.ie only for that. Go get lives would ye!

OMG, i think your a troll.
You say "go **** yourself"followed by you complaining about how people speak to you :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your next comment straight after makes no sense and you are also in on boards on a sunday :rolleyes::rolleyes:

K.Flyer

auditray2007 wrote: »

...
I dont know whether to take it to tribunal or not!

If you were going to go to Tribunal I would suggest that you only do so if you have legal factual Proof that the building does not conform to the buildings standards of the day.
You will also need Proof of excessive noise that contravenes the house rules usually set out by the management company, For Example, No unnecessary noise to be audible from the apartment between 23.00hrs - 07.30hrs. If there is no management company or formal house rules then your only option is to have the noise levels legally monitored to Prove excessive noise. Your own audio/ visual recordings may be accepted by Tribunal. You will need records of dates / times of noise and if these have been communicated in a timely manner to both the tenants and respective landlord.
Remember, Your Opinion of what is excessive noise or poor quality in building standards is subjective and Not sufficient as proof for a Tribunal hearing.

wirelessdude01

auditray2007 wrote:

Would any of you put up with musical instruments and singing at those times?

Nothing to do with your LL though.

wirelessdude01

auditray2007 wrote:

Go **** yourselves. Something seriously wrong with the way ye speak to peoplr. FYI; the only reason I am on here today is because of the RTB. I wouldnt be spending my Sunday on boards.ie only for that. Go get lives would ye!

Charming use of language. You spun the wheel and lost.

the_syco

auditray2007 wrote: »

Would you listen to people using the toilet and singing their drunken heads off at 2,3,4 or 5 in the morning. Would you listen to a spin dryer been used at those times two meters from where you sleep. Night in night out.
I DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH!!

I'd move. But you choose to stay.

auditray2007 wrote: »

Would any of you put up with musical instruments and singing at those times?

No. I'd move. But you seem to prefer to stay there, than to move.

auditray2007 wrote: »

Go get lives would ye!

Your last post was about 4 years ago. Did you expect people to agree with you, but are getting mad that we aren't?

beauf

auditray2007 wrote: »

I was advised until I was blue in the face to take the case against the LL by Flack, Cit Info, Threshold and the RTB themselves.

Well you need to go back to them and ask them what to do now. Your issue seem to be with the standard of the building. Which unless the LL built the property is really an issue with the builder and the local authority that signed off in it all. Though if there is a problem now the owner would probably have to rectify it.

The only practical solution would be to move to a better built and insulated building.

auditray2007 wrote: »

... If LL did proper work to begin with there would be no RTB.

I know it seems like the RTB is only on the tenants sides but actually its for both sides LL and tenant. So its also there for tenants acting up too.

jimmycrackcorm

The RTB is firmly in the tenants favour.
At the end of the day, any tenant can escape paying their rent and get away with that.

But a landlord cannot escape a judgement

DubCount

Its not that the RTB has changed - it has never been fit for purpose. As a concept, its fine. The idea of taking landlord/tenant disputes out of courts and into RTB should be OK, but its flawed in reality. Findings against landlords are easy to enforce, because the landlord has an asset (the investment property), and usually a fixed principle private residence. Findings against tenants are harder as tenants are harder to track and may not have assets/income to chase. The RTB also lacks sufficient power - eviction orders, for example, are meaningless as they have to go though the courts anyway to have any effect. The RTB was set up for failure, and thats how it has worked out.

Cuddlesworth

I would give you the benefit of the doubt about the sound problems right up until your "I want to speak to the manager" attitude came out.

And move is of course the correct answer. Its the best reason for renting, you can easily just pack up and move on.

goldfinches

you need to find somewhere live on your own.

overkill602

if RTB is not fit for purpose for a tenant, you need to look in the mirror i wouldn't want you as a tenant you could qualify for some form of state care

Hal3000

I had guys above me who inherited the apartment. They were total Alcoholics, parties every day and night until 10am each day. Rang the Gardai, they suggested moving so I moved. Sometimes you just gotta know when to go. I didn't bother taking it anywhere as I knew these guys would never change.

lawred2

Dav010 wrote: »

So soundproof the party wall on your side.

Or move out