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Directly elected mayors and infrastructure

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    For Dublin it would require one mayor over the four councils for it to work properly.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    That's presumably why they're going with Cork, Limerick and Waterford to start with.

    Dublin is a bit of an ecumenical matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    What about Galway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,889 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Dublin County Council was destroyed by Dail Eireann precisely because it was becoming "too big for its boots". There was no practical or economic reason for doing so. It was the same reason Thatcher destroyed the Greater London Council (from which Ireland's TDs took their lead IMO).

    What should have happened even back then was that the Corporation and County Council should have merged (or at least that part of the council area which was metropolitan in nature).

    We learn, but very slowly.

    Now the individual fiefdoms of the 4 Dublin local authorities will fight amalgamation tooth and nail for fear of losing out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭ roadmaster


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/elected-mayors-will-have-more-fundraising-clout-says-varadkar-917714.html

    If it gives cities more clout in seeking investment, this would be a wonderful move for our cities. The whole lot of them are crying out for investment in infrastructure, Cork especially

    Will the voters get to see what exactly the powers a mayor will have before they vote?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ medoc


    What happens if some popular gombeen councillor or political party “celebrity” candidate gets elected? At least currently the Chief Executive is a professional appointed due to their experience (well in theory anyway). Not saying there aren’t suitable councillors there but there is a risk of a dud been elected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,197 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Will they have real power over issues like transport though? and will this clash with the NTA? for example what if they Mayor of Cork is opposed to BusConnects, wants continued car based transport and more congestion. Cork will soon see a lot of car bans, not just Patrick street, and lots of disruption to accommodate luas construction.

    My view on Transport in Dublin and Cork is that the Oslo Model is the gold standard, make commuting to the centre by car a completely useless option and invest heavily in metro, light rail, walking and cycling. Walking and Cycling being key, Cork is geographically tiny, commutes are around 5km.


  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭ Dats me


    medoc wrote: »
    What happens if some popular gombeen councillor or political party “celebrity” candidate gets elected? At least currently the Chief Executive is a professional appointed due to their experience (well in theory anyway). Not saying there aren’t suitable councillors there but there is a risk of a dud been elected.


    Yeah, I agree completely. Surely this is a huge worry?


    Like most councillor's contribution to sustainable infrastructure projects is to oppose them in favour of cars as if congestion and climate change is a good thing.


    Having one super councillor who wants to be a TD and opposes everything to try and make headlines is probably the most likely outcome of this I would think?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    Yes, populism and opposing everything is more likely to get someone elected major than a coherent plan and taking tough decisions.

    You could end up with some small minded, self-serving individual, or worse Shane Ross!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    murphaph wrote: »
    Dublin County Council was destroyed by Dail Eireann precisely because it was becoming "too big for its boots". There was no practical or economic reason for doing so. It was the same reason Thatcher destroyed the Greater London Council (from which Ireland's TDs took their lead IMO).

    What should have happened even back then was that the Corporation and County Council should have merged (or at least that part of the council area which was metropolitan in nature).

    We learn, but very slowly.

    Now the individual fiefdoms of the 4 Dublin local authorities will fight amalgamation tooth and nail for fear of losing out.

    Agree about County Dublin being broken up into 3 independent counties - a stupid decision.

    As to the councils opposing amalgamation, well all the councils have voted in favour of a single mayor at this stage so they seem to be clearly in favour.

    Besides, Dublin's fate now lies with a peoples vote, via the Citizens Assembly. Councils will simply have to accept the peoples verdict.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    I see nothing to guarantee anything about funding there - why should an elected mayor have more clout than a council or county/city manager? Sure a mayor might be able to make an executive decision without recourse to consultation with a council (will that be the case?) but quite why any government dept would pay greater attention is beyond me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    medoc wrote: »
    What happens if some popular gombeen councillor or political party “celebrity” candidate gets elected? At least currently the Chief Executive is a professional appointed due to their experience (well in theory anyway). Not saying there aren’t suitable councillors there but there is a risk of a dud been elected.

    Can't understand anyone preferring an unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat over an elected, accountable mayor who can be turfed out of office if he doesn't perform. The mind boggles.

    Excecutive city mayors are the norm across Europe. Get a grip folks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,197 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Can't understand anyone preferring an unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat over an elected, accountable mayor who can be turfed out of office if he doesn't perform. The mind boggles.

    Excecutive city mayors are the norm across Europe. Get a grip folks.

    I've no faith in democracy, democracy gave us Shane Ross for example. I would prefer a technocratic system of government. If the City was managed by someone with a background in urban planning for example, I think this is better than pitting failed primary school teachers against each other in an election.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I've no faith in democracy

    then go to China! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ medoc


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Can't understand anyone preferring an unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat over an elected, accountable mayor who can be turfed out of office if he doesn't perform. The mind boggles.

    Excecutive city mayors are the norm across Europe. Get a grip folks.


    Didn’t say I preferred that. All I pointed out was that there’s more chance of an unsuitable person getting the job. Granted accountable, but that makes them less likely to take unpopular decisions or what might be in the best interest of the entire city as opposed to some small area where strong opposition might harm his electoral base. Though I am in support in theory of a powerful directly elected mayor for the large cities it doesn’t mean I believe that lots in Irish local politics are the best for the job. Not been from Dublin means I have no say in either the decision to have a mayor or who that would be. But a bad mayor would potentially affect the entire country


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    medoc wrote: »
    Didn’t say I preferred that. All I pointed out was that there’s more chance of an unsuitable person getting the job. Granted accountable, but that makes them less likely to take unpopular decisions or what might be in the best interest of the entire city as opposed to some small area where strong opposition might harm his electoral base. Though I am in support in theory of a powerful directly elected mayor for the large cities it doesn’t mean I believe that lots in Irish local politics are the best for the job. Not been from Dublin means I have no say in either the decision to have a mayor or who that would be. But a bad mayor would potentially affect the entire country

    The current situation already affects Dublin and the entire country. Maybe not living here you don't realise that. Dublin is 4 separate councils - counties effectively - with very little cooperation on practical stuff like transport, housing, spatial planning, etc. The current structure is not working so its time to try something else.

    We need to be bolder in this country and lose the "now hang on a sec" attitude to reform. Nothing is perfect and the idea is to continually reform and improve things. We can't do nothing out of fear it won't be perfect straight away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭ yrreg0850


    In Limerick we amalgamated City and County councils a number of years ago and ended up with two mayors.
    If the prebsite succeeds will we now have three mayors.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    yrreg0850 wrote: »
    In Limerick we amalgamated City and County councils a number of years ago and ended up with two mayors.
    If the prebsite succeeds will we now have three mayors.

    So yu will have a Troika. Good luck with that.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    yrreg0850 wrote: »
    In Limerick we amalgamated City and County councils a number of years ago and ended up with two mayors.
    If the prebsite succeeds will we now have three mayors.

    Limerick has one mayor since the 2014 elections for the combined authority and will have one mayor if the plebiscite passes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭ yrreg0850


    L1011 wrote: »
    Limerick has one mayor since the 2014 elections for the combined authority and will have one mayor if the plebiscite passes.


    Sorry to correct you but, the combined city and county council has TWO Mayors.
    One may be called a metropolitan mayor but they are from the same council.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    yrreg0850 wrote: »
    Sorry to correct you but the combined city and county council has TWO Mayors.

    No, it has a Mayor and a Deputy Mayor. Just like everywhere else.

    If you have been confused by your awful local newspapers in to mistaking the mayor of the Municipal District as being a "second mayor", I'd advise that you stop reading them!

    There is one Mayor of the City & County Council

    There is a mayor of the MD for the city, but this is a title with absolutely no power and functions.

    The Directly Elected Mayor would replace the City & County Council one, and you'd still have one actual Mayor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,701 ✭✭✭ plodder


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Yes, populism and opposing everything is more likely to get someone elected major than a coherent plan and taking tough decisions.

    You could end up with some small minded, self-serving individual, or worse Shane Ross!
    I wouldn't agree with that. I think it won't happen because like many politicians, Shane Ross prioritises his own constituents over the "greater good". But, the constituency for a directly elected mayor will be the whole city and probably the region. So, he/she will be forced to look after the interests of the region as a whole. We've never had a political office like that before, and we're just used to politicians who represent small geographical areas with their own particular concerns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,093 ✭✭✭ GerardKeating


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    What about Galway?

    Stalling since it also involved merging the city and county, and this because contensious


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