First A4 Race

sann

Raced Blarney yesterday. Conditions were not the nicest for my first day of Racing.
Didn't mind the rain too much but the wind was horrible.
It was 72k with 2 loops of a circuit and an 8k leg into a strong wind at the end.
Was surprised how calm the pace was for the first few k but just before we hit Bweeng the pace went up and split the group.
4 managed to get away over the top and started working.
To be honest I didn't even know they were gone till some guy at the side of the road told us 4 guys had 40 seconds.
At this stage there was a good bunch of about 40 riders in the chasing pack.
No problem I would have thought.
This is the part I can't understand.
There was only about 7 or 8 willing to roll over and the rest just wouldn't ride.
The next time check was 2 mins and then with 20k to go we heard 4 mins.
Every time we started rolling it would only last for a few mins as lads stopped coming through.
Then the usual lull. It was like everyone was happy to sprint for 5th.
Maybe I'm missing something.
Can't understand the mentality.
Going back adventure racing again I think or else get better at cycling and be one of the 4 that got away in future.
From a very confused A4 debutant.

dahat

Thats A4, try get your 13pts as quick as.

You could try get up the road yourself and have way more fun that way.

sann

dahat wrote: »

Thats A4, try get your 13pts as quick as.

You could try get up the road yourself and have way more fun that way.

That's the plan. The guy that won had already won dungarvan last week so had I been a little less naive I should have been watching the right wheels.

smurphy29

To be honest that situation is not unique to A4 - just watch the finale of the Ronde van Vlaanderen to see a similar lack of co-operation among a too-big-to-work group letting a smaller group (one rider) stay away!

You'll never get strong co-operation in a group of 40. That's the tactical side of bike racing. A small group working together can out-ride a large one where co-operation is lacking. Everyone in the big group starts thinking about the lads sitting on so nobody wants to do too much.

In fact that's quite an atypical A4 race; it's rare that a break with sufficient numbers gets away and works together. Normally it's one or two riders left to dangle off the front until they get caught. Gwan the lads who stayed away.

tuxy

You will never be able to organise a large bunch at any level.
If the guys that were willing to work were not strong enough to break free of the bunch then they were just not strong enough to catch the break.

sann

tuxy wrote: »

You will never be able to organise a large bunch at any level.
If the guys that were willing to work were not strong enough to break free of the bunch then they were just not strong enough to catch the break.

Good point.
I was surprised when the gap jumped from 2 mins to 4 mins, but to be fair our pace had really dropped off at times.
Still though, for the 3 lads to have that built up they must have really worked well together.
But just getting back to my original post.
Yes. I understand that this is a typical A4 Race but my question is what is the thinking of the guys at the back of our group who wouldn't roll through?
They didn't appear to be under pressure or hanging on for dear life.
Do some just consider it a successful day out to finish in the bunch or whats the story?

tuxy

sann wrote: »

Yes. I understand that this is a typical A4 Race but my question is what is the thinking of the guys at the back of our group who wouldn't roll through?
They didn't appear to be under pressure or hanging on for dear life.
Do some just consider it a successful day out to finish in the bunch or whats the story?

That's it exactly. Some people are just not very competitive or else don't have the confidence in their ability.

What's more common at A4 is many races where there are people who are strong enough to break but never do so and it just ends in a sprint. It's still very early and the guys that are much stronger will be picking up points fast. Once they are upgraded you better get good at either sprinting or solo break aways.

dahat

sann wrote: »

That's the plan. The guy that won had already won dungarvan last week so had I been a little less naive I should have been watching the right wheels.

In fairness that lad looks quite strong for A4 & attached to a decent club. He is a decent triathle by all accounts so no mug.

Race your own race and have some fun. It took me a little to settle in A4 and when i did I stayed handy all rqce, much easier get a feel and learn up there.

Bambaata

What can happen too is guys go far too deep to get away and then can't recover in time to get together and ride. Just keep attacking and some day you'll get in with a group that might stay away. Less chance of crashing too and if it doesn't work at least you will be getting stronger

Chartsengrafs

OP- I’ve only done three A4 races, all this year. None of which played out like your race. I wouldn’t extrapolate too much from one race, they won’t all be like that.

Paul_Mc1988

You may be forgetting a key point, the lads up the road may have been in a team. If so their team mates job in the group is to disrupt the group and slow the pace. They hit the front and stop pulling forcing you to burn more energy. They dont want you catching their team mate when hes in a good position to win. It's basic team tactics.

A great source of info on race tactics is the "Norcal Cycling videos" channel on YouTube. His race craft is very good. Be warned you may get stuck watching for hours

wirelessdude01

Paul_Mc1988 wrote:

You may be forgetting a key point, the lads up the road may have been in a team. If so their team mates job in the group is to disrupt the group and slow the pace. They hit the front and stop pulling forcing you to burn more energy. They dont want you catching their team mate when hes in a good position to win. It's basic team tactics.

Remember this is A4. Team tactics don't mreally exist and if they do most A4 cyclists don't have the ability mor inclination to carry them out.

Chips Lovell

sann wrote: »

But just getting back to my original post.
Yes. I understand that this is a typical A4 Race but my question is what is the thinking of the guys at the back of our group who wouldn't roll through?
They didn't appear to be under pressure or hanging on for dear life.
Do some just consider it a successful day out to finish in the bunch or whats the story?

First of all, I don't think it's a typical A4 race, at least not from the A4 races I've seen. More often, the opposite occurs. No break gets away because there are too many people who're willing to chase it down.

As for the thinking of the lads sitting in. Some are probably weak but some are just gambling on others being willing to do the work and bring the break back. And in fairness, a lot of the time, it's a successful gambit.

DKmac

sann wrote: »

To be honest I didn't even know they were gone till some guy at the side of the road told us 4 guys had 40 seconds.
.

This is the problem here. Get up front and watch what's going on. So you can react if needed. Don't expect a big chase group, it's everyman for himself and most are banking on a sprint or afraid to chase things down in case they blow up and ruin their chances in the final.

BTW 9/10 breaks in A4 don't stick.

yop

DKmac wrote: »

This is the problem here. Get up front and watch what's going on. So you can react if needed. Don't expect a big chase group, it's everyman for himself and most are banking on a sprint or afraid to chase things down in case they blow up and ruin their chances in the final.

BTW 9/10 breaks in A4 don't stick.

Not done much A4 racing outside of the club races but I'd agree with that, in all bar last Sundays in Cbar where a fellow boardsie took victory from 25km out, the breaks are always panic-ally taken back.
You could always wait until someone breaks, then when its taken back bury it yourself, the guys at the front will be tired from chasing and the guys behind settling back to get their hearts back.

Sundays race was won down to strong riding from the winner and his team controlled the rest of us covering anything major we tried but didnt work at the front.

G1032

yop wrote: »

Not done much A4 racing outside of the club races but I'd agree with that, in all bar last Sundays in Cbar where a fellow boardsie took victory from 25km out, the breaks are always panic-ally taken back.
You could always wait until someone breaks, then when its taken back bury it yourself, the guys at the front will be tired from chasing and the guys behind settling back to get their hearts back.

Sundays race was won down to strong riding from the winner and his team controlled the rest of us covering anything major we tried but didnt work at the front.

Fine sprint yourself at the finish!!

dahat

Plenty stay away on the correct course, flat courses they won't.