Expenses

Streetlamp

Is there a time frame for when a company must pay you back your expenses. I was under the impression legally they were to pay you back immediately once they are submitted as its your money and not pay.

Can anyone give the legal position on this.

sportsfan90

I don't know if there's a defined timeframe under law, but it shouldn't go beyond the date of your next payslip.

If it's a significant amount, maybe hundreds if you had to pay for flights, overnight accommodation, car rental etc, then I'd be a bit miffed if they didn't process it within a few days.

whippet

I'm in a SME and we claim in the first week of the month after the expenses were incurred. I thought that was fairly normal - my wife's place is the same (multinational)

Clareman

Most places do expenses as part of the payroll run

Streetlamp

In a previous multinational I received them within days.

3DataModem

Some places do within days, some places do along with pay. Both are perfectly normal.

Mrs OBumble

When I was an agency worker on-site in a multinational, we got expenses paid after the client had paid the agency. Could mean a delay of 60 days in the worst case.

Boxcar_Willie

Most places will just give you a company credit card to use for expenses .

barneystinson

Boxcar_Willie wrote: »

Most places will just give you a company credit card to use for expenses .

That’s nonsense, in my experience. What’re you basing that statement on?

The chan chan man

Boxcar_Willie wrote: »

Most places will just give you a company credit card to use for expenses .

....no they wont

Ursus Horribilis

2-3 weeks where I work.

mouthful

Expenses are not ‘wages’ as per the payment of wages act, and therefore the legal situation is at best vague-

Best to determine what is in the contract, or if it is silent on the matter then what is the custom and practice?

whippet

Boxcar_Willie wrote: »

Most places will just give you a company credit card to use for expenses .

Incorrect.

We submit ours on the last day of the month and usually they are paid within 2-3 days

Wanderer2010

Why doesn't the company just pay for your flights/rooms straight up??

I never worked anywhere where you were expected to fork up the money straight up, with the promise that you get the money back next pay period. What if you didn't have the money yourself for flights and hotels?

whomitconcerns

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I never worked anywhere where you were expected to fork up the money straight up, with the promise that you get the money back next pay period. What if you didn't have the money yourself for flights and hotels?

If your in a job that requires you to travel like that and you can't afford to allocate or credit card things like that within a month.. Then I think a visit to mabs is needed, no offence intended.

But back to op, no timescale in my experience, always paid in next payment run or next salary run once I had tucked all the boxes on what they required to pay them. That's been the same whether a 50 euro or 15000 expense claim in the past for me..

wassie

For a SME, its not unreasonable to pay the expenses incurred during one month in the following month. A lot of it comes down to the back offices and how well their processes are for payroll etc.

Wanderer2010

whomitconcerns wrote: »

If your in a job that requires you to travel like that and you can't afford to allocate or credit card things like that within a month.. Then I think a visit to mabs is needed, no offence intended.

But back to op, no timescale in my experience, always paid in next payment run or next salary run once I had tucked all the boxes on what they required to pay them. That's been the same whether a 50 euro or 15000 expense claim in the past for me..

Ah hang on now, MABS? What are you talking about? If its a trip over the pond to London then maybe you can put aside a few hundred for that but a lot of these trips are to the States and even for economy flights and basic hotels, that's a lot of money to have to pay, especially if you have a big mortgage, car loan, unexpected expenses etc.

Certainly if I was only given a week or two notice for such a trip and I simply didn't have the money to go, I would be telling the company, a lot of which are rolling in cash, to pay up first or I wont be going. How hungry is it that these firms expect you to pay first..

Batgurl

I’ve worked in places that have great expenses policies and places that have shocking expenses policies.

In one place I was waiting 8 weeks for reimbursement, nagging them every single day. But their sorry excuse for a finance team were either incompetent or were instructed to delay us for as long as possible (treating us like every other creditor of the company). Got out of there as soon as I could.

I personally think, if it takes a company longer than 5 working days to process expenses, you should be worried. If the company goes bust, your expenses are not covered by any legislation and you just become another unsecured creditor.

whomitconcerns

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Ah hang on now, MABS? What are you talking about? If its a trip over the pond to London then maybe you can put aside a few hundred for that but a lot of these trips are to the States and even for economy flights and basic hotels, that's a lot of money to have to pay, especially if you have a big mortgage, car loan, unexpected expenses etc.

Certainly if I was only given a week or two notice for such a trip and I simply didn't have the money to go, I would be telling the company, a lot of which are rolling in cash, to pay up first or I wont be going. How hungry is it that these firms expect you to pay first..

That's what credit cards are for. Are you implying that the person doing multiple long distance trips doesn't have one? Book the trips then expense straight away, your not out any money..

Batgurl

whomitconcerns wrote: »

That's what credit cards are for. Are you implying that the person doing multiple long distance trips doesn't have one? Book the trips then expense straight away, your not out any money..

Are you talking about a personal credit card or a company credit card? Not all companies will give (nor have) a company credit card...especially startups.

And I’m pretty sure having a credit card is not a job requirement the same way having a car or degree might be so expecting your staff to use their credit rating to support a business that they don’t own is not fair nor reasonable.

Mrs OBumble

Batgurl wrote: »

Are you talking about a personal credit card or a company credit card? Not all companies will give (nor have) a company credit card...especially startups.

And I’m pretty sure having a credit card is not a job requirement the same way having a car or degree might be so expecting your staff to use their credit rating to support a business that they don’t own is not fair nor reasonable.

Anyone who is in the sort of jobs that requires trips to the states should have their personal financial s***t together enough to be able to put things on a personal credit card - which is FREE for the person so long as it's paid back within the month.

If your personal credit rating is so poor that this isn't possible, then I doubt you'd pass the vetting to get a job responsible enough to require it.

Having a credit card isn't stated on job descriptions. Neither is being about to drive, use email, find your way around new places. Because these things are all part of adulting.

Batgurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Anyone who is in the sort of jobs that requires trips to the states should have their personal financial s***t together enough to be able to put things on a personal credit card - which is FREE for the person so long as it's paid back within the month.

If your personal credit rating is so poor that this isn't possible, then I doubt you'd pass the vetting to get a job responsible enough to require it.

Having a credit card isn't stated on job descriptions. Neither is being about to drive, use email, find your way around new places. Because these things are all part of adulting.

I’ve seen plenty of roles which require travel where you don’t need to pass vetting. Just because you aren’t aware of them, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. You are very privileged; I hope you can become more aware of your privilege.

NSAman

As many people have already stated, it all depends on the company itself.

I have worked for companies that have shockingly bad expense reimbursement procedures. When I was struggling expenses were difficult to pay, the company i worked for disputed many expenses and no one wanted to do anything for them because of it.

Currently, I travel a huge amount. I (as Ms. O stated) have a personal credit card, (it may be privilege) which allows me to track all expenses and gives me the ability to just submit the statement (with invoices) for payment. The company pay said credit card on presentation, which is once a month a week prior to the pay date.

Deagol

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Anyone who is in the sort of jobs that requires trips to the states should have their personal financial s***t together enough to be able to put things on a personal credit card - which is FREE for the person so long as it's paid back within the month.

If your personal credit rating is so poor that this isn't possible, then I doubt you'd pass the vetting to get a job responsible enough to require it.

Having a credit card isn't stated on job descriptions. Neither is being about to drive, use email, find your way around new places. Because these things are all part of adulting.

God almighty you talk some awful claptrap - I know tons of people who don't have credit cards as they don't believe in borrowing money to pay for things they can't afford.

I also know many people who have well paid and responsible jobs who struggle at the end of the month due to personal circumstances. One person pays for medical care for an elderly relative, another is a single parent who has to pay for crazy expensive child care costs.
And if someone is having trouble with this - they should speak to the company about alternatives- they have told me in this company they would consider an upfront payment to allow someone who doesn't normally travel to pay for expenses OR they would put it on a senior managers card.

Neither is irresponsible nor less than an adult - but neither could afford to be paying out money on work related expenses because a company is either too cheap or badly ran that they don't know how to pay for flights or other travel expenses for their employees.

I'm lucky enough to have a company credit card but I can tell you now I wouldn't be putting expenses on my personal cards unless absolute emergency or something I would think was out of the control of my company. In fact our company (very large multinational) has a written policy stating that expenses must be put on the company CC unless absolutely necessary.

Having seen the rubbish you spout on a regular basis on boards, I have to say I'd love to know what kind of reputation you have in your own company because you seem to take great care to say exactly the opposite to most people's opinions on things when it comes to work.

/rant over


OP - I checked with one of the HR managers here and they've confirmed there are no legal obligations they are aware of to pay expenses back in any time frame. They can only say that it would be considered normal to have them back at latest - the next pay run or within a couple of weeks.

They also added that it would be normal for the company to consider upfront float for employees who typically don't travel and don't have a CC OR they would have a senior manager put it on their card.

Hope that helps!

C3PO

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If your personal credit rating is so poor that this isn't possible, then I doubt you'd pass the vetting to get a job responsible enough to require it.

What a load of nonsense! What sort of job vets applicants personal finances? I have certainly never come across it. My own credit rating is not great (not something I’m proud of but the result of a pretty torrid time during the recession) but that didn’t prevent me getting a management role in a financial services company who also thankfully have given me a company credit card for business expenses!

OMM 0000

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I never worked anywhere where you were expected to fork up the money straight up, with the promise that you get the money back next pay period. What if you didn't have the money yourself for flights and hotels?

Wait until you become a manager...

I have to expense all sorts of things.

Generally expenses are paid when salaries are done, but it's possible to get the money before that if you need it.

Mrs OBumble

C3PO wrote: »

What a load of nonsense! What sort of job vets applicants personal finances? I have certainly never come across it. My own credit rating is not great (not something I’m proud of but the result of a pretty torrid time during the recession) but that didn’t prevent me getting a management role in a financial services company who also thankfully have given me a company credit card for business expenses!

Sorry, but I call BS on that. Financial services companies, in particular, are required to do very careful vetting of their employees financial circumstances.



In Ireland, even public servants, who are some of the best-looked-after employees in the land, are required to pay for work related travel and accommodation up-front, and claim it back via expenses.

C3PO

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sorry, but I call BS on that. Financial services companies, in particular, are required to do very careful vetting of their employees financial circumstances.

You can call BS (as well as talk BS) as much as you like but I am indeed a manager in a (well known) Irish financial services company who was employed without personal financial vetting and with a poor credit rating!
Just fess up, admit you’re wrong for once, and apologise for your ridiculous statement!

barneystinson

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In Ireland, even public servants, who are some of the best-looked-after employees in the land, are required to pay for work related travel and accommodation up-front, and claim it back via expenses.

There’s facility for payment of an advance on expenses where necessary; I’ve personal experience of dealing with such, as staff having to travel to Dublin for a week’s training can be a relatively costly endeavour, for someone on CO/EO money...

Rowley Birkin QC

barneystinson wrote: »

That’s nonsense, in my experience. What’re you basing that statement on?

I have a company card for expenses, as do many of my colleagues and our counterparts in similar roles in other companies.

In the rare event where I use a personal card, expenses are paid with 1 week. This is in a large multi-national.

In my previous SME company, expenses were paid usually within 2-3 days.

godtabh

barneystinson wrote: »

That’s nonsense, in my experience. What’re you basing that statement on?

I've had 2 company credit cars spread across 5 jobs

Tell me how

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

I have a company card for expenses, as do many of my colleagues and our counterparts in similar roles in other companies.

In the rare event where I use a personal card, expenses are paid with 1 week. This is in a large multi-national.

In my previous SME company, expenses were paid usually within 2-3 days.

This is extremely rare, I do hope no single person abuses it as if they do, ye will probably all lose the access to the cards.

Tell me how

It's not always feasible either to get a company to arrange flight, accommodation etc as the person travelling for work will often be the best judge of what is suitable. Remember one period where a guy flew in to Rome late at night and had to drive 80 minutes to a hotel, where he was expected for work the following morning was 4 miles from the airport (about 20 minute in rush hour) His trip the following morning took nearly 3 hours. All because someone in the admin side didn't check out the nuance of the options.
most people in that company would then arrange their own accommodation using the company card (which would stay with the company) or use their own and get reimbursed. That company was understanding in terms of providing money up front if someone flagged they would need it.

Rowley Birkin QC

Mr.S wrote: »

I wouldn’t say extremely rare, my last few employers have issued company cards.

My current company issues company credit cards to all employees as standard, it’s linked to SAP and any transactions on the card need to have receipts attached and then sent off for approval by your line manager and account dept. If all approved, the company pays the CC bill automatically. Any non-approved expenses need to be settled by the employee, or if you use the card for personal charges by mistake.

Actually quite hard to abuse as you need itemised receipts for everything.

Same. With the minor exception that receipts are only required above a certain $ / £/ € value. It's pretty seamless.

In fact, the only issue I had was on my first expense report where some charges hadn't yet synced back to the card & SAP system. When I submitted, the assumption was that I had paid for the expenses myself and a few hundred euro showed up in my account unexpectedly. The process of giving the money back was a lot harder than taking it in the first place.

Tell me how

Mr.S wrote: »

I wouldn’t say extremely rare, my last few employers have issued company cards.

My current company issues company credit cards to all employees as standard, it’s linked to SAP and any transactions on the card need to have receipts attached and then sent off for approval by your line manager and account dept. If all approved, the company pays the CC bill automatically. Any non-approved expenses need to be settled by the employee, or if you use the card for personal charges by mistake.

Actually quite hard to abuse as you need itemised receipts for everything.

Ok, maybe 'extremely' is not correct, in some industries, such as with sales staff, or those on the road frequently then cards are provided but, my experience, for most people/companies, credit cards are controlled very tightly.

I'm thinking of MNE and SME's in which I have worked, maybe with the digital banking advances, they are more commonly in use now but that isn't my experience yet.

hots

I've had company supplied card (with personal liability) and then pay yourself and claim back. Generally if you submit before the pay-run is complete it'll pay out in the payslip, if you miss the cutoff it'll be the following month. One company did a separate expenses run with different dates but it was still once a month.

barneystinson

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

I have a company card for expenses, as do many of my colleagues and our counterparts in similar roles in other companies.

In the rare event where I use a personal card, expenses are paid with 1 week. This is in a large multi-national.

In my previous SME company, expenses were paid usually within 2-3 days.

I’m not sure why you’re replying to my question posed to another poster, but anyway I’ll bite... you’ll note my post received >20 thanks, the point being I took issue with the poster’s reference to “most” employers.

Whether you construe that strictly as most employers (ie including the local greengrocers with 3 employees who never have to incur any expenses), or construe it as referring to the employers who employ the “most” people (ie the smaller subset of relatively large employers), it doesn’t stack up IMHO.

The civil service employs lots of staff, none of whom have access to employer issued credit cards. The wider public service generally don’t either AFAIK, except when you get into the semi states.

I’m not saying NO employers provide credit cards to their staff, I’m simply saying that the suggestion that “most” employers do, is nonsense, no matter what way you interpret “most”.

whomitconcerns

In a multinational I worked at we had a company card which was on monthly 100% dd from our personal bank accounts.

We had to claim as soon as costs were incurred and we got it back every Thursday as relevant.

Part of my job required travel so incurring costs in advance was the norm.

Everywhere I worked since then I have to use my personal card and claim back. It allows me have control of my travel and to get personal benefit ie. Aircraft and hotel lounges, etc.

There are advantages!

Tell me how

whomitconcerns wrote: »

There are advantages!

There can be some, but only if you know up front what you are getting yourself in to.

Staff from a former company travelled to Germany for work previously to a hotel which supposedly had been booked by the company in advance. When they got there, they were asked for a card to secure the rooms, they did not have a company card. One guy gave his card which allowed them access to the room but he got a call from his wife the following day saying that she was unable to pay for shopping.

The hotel had put a hold on x amount from what was a joint account and when the guys wife tried to do her shopping, the value was declined.

Very inconveniencing for her and embarrassing also. He refused to travel on future trips unless his expenses were either arranged by the company (hotel, flight, per diem) or he was given money in advance to arrange it himself.