Do I have to pay water rates for last 18 months?

lolalola

Ok, I'll keep it simple. I live in an apartment in county Cork, above 2 businesses (my landlord owns both business and my private accommodation apartment). 
There's no water meter for the entire premises. Today he informed me that Irish Water have billed him for water charges for the last 16 months, and as there's no water meter on the property, he's going to bill us three ways. 
I'm not against paying, but I don't feel the three way equal split is fair. What is my best course of action going forward here - do I ask for the businesses to have separate meters installed? Do I have any rights here in terms of not paying? 

lawred2

There are no charges for residential water supply

Plumbthedepths

You have no liability, also I would assume a business would depend on its nature consume far more than a residential dwelling.

lolalola

lawred2 wrote: »

There are no charges for residential water supply

I know this has been a contentious issue with the water charges over the last couple of years, but am I legally entitled to state this to my landlord? 

Plumbthedepths

lolalola wrote:

but am I legally entitled to state this to my landlord?

Yes.

Mundo7976

Um, that would be business rates hes talking about, and if hes not declared your apartment as residential it would be included in the property as a whole. Not your problem though 

lolalola

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Um, that would be business rates hes talking about, and if hes not declared your apartment as residential it would be included in the property as a whole. Not your problem though 

If I were to ask my landlord to see the bill, would it say on there anywhere that it's a 'business bill' rather than a residential bill, for example? 

Plumbthedepths

lolalola wrote:

If I were to ask my landlord to see the bill, would it say on there anywhere that it's a 'business bill' rather than a residential bill, for example?

There is NO residential water charge at the moment. There is a provision for excessive use but without a meter it's hard to prove in your case.

Mundo7976

lolalola wrote: »

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Um, that would be business rates hes talking about, and if hes not declared your apartment as residential it would be included in the property as a whole. Not your problem though 

If I were to ask my landlord to see the bill, would it say on there anywhere that it's a 'business bill' rather than a residential bill, for example? 

It usually falls in with council business rates and will specify what the charges are on the bill

lolalola

Mundo7976 wrote: »

lolalola wrote: »

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Um, that would be business rates hes talking about, and if hes not declared your apartment as residential it would be included in the property as a whole. Not your problem though 

If I were to ask my landlord to see the bill, would it say on there anywhere that it's a 'business bill' rather than a residential bill, for example? 

It usually falls in with council business rates and will specify what the charges are on the bill

Ok, that makes sense  ... but there is no water meter on the property - nothing that covers this apartment, or the other two businesses. 

But then that shouldn't be my issue, right? 

Always Tired

The water charges on the bill are not for your apartment, as Irish Water cannot charge residential customers.

Your landlord is either incompetent or trying to pull a fast one (ie: told the businesses they had to split the bill and is planning to pocket the 3rd you give him). The former is more likely but neither would be surprising with typical LLs here.

If you were to pay it, you would be subsidizing the water the business is using, as they are the only ones liable.

Irish Water: Allanah

Hi lolalola,

Thank you for your query.

lolalola wrote: »

Ok, I'll keep it simple. I live in an apartment in county Cork, above 2 businesses (my landlord owns both business and my private accommodation apartment).
There's no water meter for the entire premises. Today he informed me that Irish Water have billed him for water charges for the last 16 months, and as there's no water meter on the property, he's going to bill us three ways.
I'm not against paying, but I don't feel the three way equal split is fair. What is my best course of action going forward here - do I ask for the businesses to have separate meters installed? Do I have any rights here in terms of not paying?

If you are living in a domestic residence, you shouldn't be paying domestic charges via your landlord. As you have stated that there is no meter, your landlord would have received an assessed bill for the registered businesses and not the residential property.

We hope this information helps, please feel free to get in touch if you have any further queries.

Thanks,
Allanah

lolalola

Irish Water: Allanah wrote: »

Hi lolalola,

Thank you for your query.

lolalola wrote: »

Ok, I'll keep it simple. I live in an apartment in county Cork, above 2 businesses (my landlord owns both business and my private accommodation apartment).
There's no water meter for the entire premises. Today he informed me that Irish Water have billed him for water charges for the last 16 months, and as there's no water meter on the property, he's going to bill us three ways.
I'm not against paying, but I don't feel the three way equal split is fair. What is my best course of action going forward here - do I ask for the businesses to have separate meters installed? Do I have any rights here in terms of not paying?

If you are living in a domestic residence, you shouldn't be paying domestic charges via your landlord. As you have stated that there is no meter, your landlord would have received an assessed bill for the registered businesses and not the residential property.

We hope this information helps, please feel free to get in touch if you have any further queries.

Thanks,
Allanah

Thanks Alannah. Ok, so I forwarded all of this on to my landlord, and he called me back to apologise that I was correct, and I didn't have to pay any water charges. 

But he called me again this morning, and is now going with the angle that because I never had a meter installed during that billing period, I've inadvertently been using the business water supply of one of the businesses, so that's why I should be paying my share of the bill due to this. 
Surely this is completely irrelevant, no? A domestic water meter would never have been installed here 16 months go anyway? 

Bob24

lolalola wrote: »

Thanks Alannah. Ok, so I forwarded all of this on to my landlord, and he called me back to apologise that I was correct, and I didn't have to pay any water charges. 

But he called me again this morning, and is now going with the angle that because I never had a meter installed during that billing period, I've inadvertently been using the business water supply of one of the businesses, so that's why I should be paying my share of the bill due to this. 
Surely this is completely irrelevant, no? A domestic water meter would never have been installed here 16 months go anyway? 

I would ask the landlord to show the water bill and where it mentions there is a charge for domestic water usage. If they are not being charged for domestic use the case is closed, and if they are it is an issue between them and Irish Water to understand why.

Btw does the landlord live in the building? I am not sure but in that case I think it would be a mixed-use premise and they might be billed for their own consumption. But anyway as a tenant I don’t believe you are liable to pay anything.
Also I am not clear are the building/businesses metered or is it an assessed charge?

lolalola

Bob24 wrote: »

lolalola wrote: »

Thanks Alannah. Ok, so I forwarded all of this on to my landlord, and he called me back to apologise that I was correct, and I didn't have to pay any water charges. 

But he called me again this morning, and is now going with the angle that because I never had a meter installed during that billing period, I've inadvertently been using the business water supply of one of the businesses, so that's why I should be paying my share of the bill due to this. 
Surely this is completely irrelevant, no? A domestic water meter would never have been installed here 16 months go anyway? 

I would ask the landlord to show the water bill and where it mentions there is a charge for domestic water usage. If they are not being charged for domestic use the case is closed, and if they are it is an issue between them and Irish Water to understand why.

Btw does the landlord live in the building? I am not sure but in that case I think it would be a mixed-use premise and they might be billed for their own consumption. But anyway as a tenant I don’t believe you are liable to pay anything.
Also I am not clear are the building/businesses metered or is it an assessed charge?

No, the landlord doesn't live in the building. The building comprises of two businesses downstairs, with my residential apartment upstairs. He owns all three of these, and rents them out separately. 

As far as I can fathom, the bill is one bill for everything, because the landlord failed to have meters installed for the two businesses. This should not be my problem, because with my being a residential customer, I'm entitled to free water. 

However, my fear now is that if I don't contribute something to the bill, my landlord will coincidentally increase my rent to compensate for that. 

Bob24

lolalola wrote: »

No, the landlord doesn't live in the building. The building comprises of two businesses downstairs, with my residential apartment upstairs. He owns all three of these, and rents them out separately. 

As far as I can fathom, the bill is one bill for everything, because the landlord failed to have meters installed for the two businesses. This should not be my problem, because with my being a residential customer, I'm entitled to free water. 

However, my fear now is that if I don't contribute something to the bill, my landlord will coincidentally increase my rent to compensate for that. 

You should really ask to see the bill and what it says. I could be wrong and you might want to check with Irish Water but I don’t think they would send a bill which combines commercial and residential water usage in the building.

But yes you’re right, this is probably just an excuse from your landlord to charge you more and they will compensate elsewhere (or if you are in a rent pressure zone it might be a way to increase your rent more than what they are allowed to)

lolalola

Bob24 wrote: »

lolalola wrote: »

No, the landlord doesn't live in the building. The building comprises of two businesses downstairs, with my residential apartment upstairs. He owns all three of these, and rents them out separately. 

As far as I can fathom, the bill is one bill for everything, because the landlord failed to have meters installed for the two businesses. This should not be my problem, because with my being a residential customer, I'm entitled to free water. 

However, my fear now is that if I don't contribute something to the bill, my landlord will coincidentally increase my rent to compensate for that. 

You should really ask to see the bill and what it says. You might want to check with Irish Water but I don’t think they would send a bill which combines commercial and residential water usage in the building.

But yes you’re right, this is probably just an excuse from your landlord to charge you more and they will compensate elsewhere (or if you are in a rent pressure zone it might be a way to increase your rent more than what they are allowed to)

The bill from what I can gather is all business. but because the way this building is set up, he hasn't got off his arse to section it off correctly. So he's now looking for me to cover a portion of the cost of his mistake. Ridiculous.