Incorrect speed on fixed charge offence

evosteo

Hi folks, i put my hands up here. I was going over the speed limit on the r139 about 2 weeks ago. Garda with a hair dryer just after the lights at the roundabout. Showed me on the gun at 83km/hr, even though its a long stretch of straight road i think its just 60km/hr. Fine came in the post yesterday and i noticed something incorrect. It stated i was going 83km/hr in a 80km/hr zone? Just wondering should i challenge the fine due to the infomation been incorrect and take it as my get out of jail free card. Anyone any experience with this?

bazz26

I'm just going to grab my popcorn so I'll be back in a minute.

endacl

Your speedo would have been reading 90 or thereabouts.

There is no get out of jail free card.

PixelTrawler

You can check openstreetmap for the speed limit at the point you were on. You might need to go into edit mode. Its usually pretty accurate.

You’re problem trying to dispute it is whether 60 or 80, you were still speeding.

Wishbone Ash

It 60km/h there so you may draw more attention to yourself by challenging it as you would be approx 40% over the limit whereas 83 in an 80 looks a lot better.

amcalester

That’s harsh OP, I’m sure if the Garda realized it was a 60 zone and not an 80 he’d have let you off.

Wishbone Ash

amcalester wrote: »

That’s harsh OP, I’m sure if the Garda realized it was a 60 zone and not an 80 he’d have let you off.

I think it was just written incorrectly. The Garda wouldn't have done it for 83 in an 80.

evosteo

😂

Del2005

evosteo wrote: »

Hi folks, i put my hands up here. I was going over the speed limit on the r139 about 2 weeks ago. Garda with a hair dryer just after the lights at the roundabout. Showed me on the gun at 83km/hr, even though its a long stretch of straight road i think its just 60km/hr. Fine came in the post yesterday and i noticed something incorrect. It stated i was going 83km/hr in a 80km/hr zone? Just wondering should i challenge the fine due to the infomation been incorrect and take it as my get out of jail free card. Anyone any experience with this?

What difference would challenging being done for 83 in a 60 vs 83 in an 80 get you? You are getting done for exceeding the speed limit and since it's flat rate you don't get a discount for only being 3 over, which as already posted means your speedo would have been well over 80.

sunnysoutheast

Presumably you'd have to go to court to challenge the validity of it though?

If the extra three points is going to put you in bother then it might be worth getting a "Mr. Loophole" on the case, but if they'll be your only three points I'm not sure that course of action is worth it for an €80 fine.

Isambard

i don't see what good an appeal would do for you. If you appealed on the grounds that you were booked for speeding (a little) in an 80 when actually you were speeding in a 60 (by quite a lot) , you'd surely lose.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

If it goes before a court a guard can ask to have the charge amended to correct the error plus the penalty on conviction increases.

Jurgen Klopp

Actually quick Q, do the speed guns and cameras have a margin of error in readings?

Going by above a poster said the speedometer would have read 90km to be clocked at 83km?

I'm assuming they round down by 10km or so to allow for someone who might have been slowing down or just touched the pedal too much?

CrankyHaus

Drove that road for years and they never speed tested there or did any road traffic policing there. I assumed it was because they didn't want the hassle of dealing with the travellers acessing the enormous halting site on that road that they'd inevitably have to pull over.
Nobody does the 60 km/h limit there.
Do 80 km/h and have cars doing 100 km/h burn past you.

endacl

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Actually quick Q, do the speed guns and cameras have a margin of error in readings?

Going by above a poster said the speedometer would have read 90km to be clocked at 83km?

I'm assuming they round down by 10km or so to allow for someone who might have been slowing down or just touched the pedal too much?

Car speedos routinely give a speed 5-10 kmph over actual speed. Why would the guard ‘round down’. The margin for error is built into the driver’s right foot.

The point I was making is that the OP didn’t inadvertently drift slightly north of the limit. Their own speedo would have told them that, according to the car, they were travelling substantially above the limit.

Del2005

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Actually quick Q, do the speed guns and cameras have a margin of error in readings?

Going by above a poster said the speedometer would have read 90km to be clocked at 83km?

I'm assuming they round down by 10km or so to allow for someone who might have been slowing down or just touched the pedal too much?

The speed guns don't even have to be working never mind have a margin or error.

They were going 10 or 30 over the limit on their speedo so either way they are getting done.

kirving

What has the speedometer output got to do with it?

My last car was spot on almost, and my current car overstates my actual speed by a little. If I'm caught speeding now, it doesn't make me any more or less deserving of a fine/points.

Skatedude

endacl wrote: »

Car speedos routinely give a speed 5-10 kmph over actual speed. Why would the guard ‘round down’. The margin for error is built into the driver’s right foot.

The point I was making is that the OP didn’t inadvertently drift slightly north of the limit. Their own speedo would have told them that, according to the car, they were travelling substantially above the limit.

I've heard this before and yet every car i have owned for the last 15+ years speedo has always matched perfectly when confirmed with a gps speedo on a flat straight road, usually a motorway for better accuracy.
I know manufacturers cant have a speedo read low, but people keep mentioning big differences? haved they actually tested this or basing it on cars from decades ago?

Actually, that would be a good poll to post to see how different cars match their actual speed, gps speedo app with a phone in a cradle?

Del2005

Skatedude wrote: »

I've heard this before and yet every car i have owned for the last 15+ years speedo has always matched perfectly when confirmed with a gps speedo on a flat straight road, usually a motorway for better accuracy.
I know manufacturers cant have a speedo read low, but people keep mentioning big differences?

I once drove along a flat road with a Garmin and my phone, they had different speeds! So GPS isn't accurate either.


But the one thing the speedo can never do is read under. So if your car is showing 80km/h you are definitely going less than that, assuming you have standard wheels and tyres

endacl

Skatedude wrote: »

Actually, that would be a good poll to post to see how different cars match their actual speed, gps speedo app with a phone in a cradle?

Mine reads +5@100

ted1

Honestly not worth your while it has to go to court.
The judge will ask where you doing 83. Ihell insist on yes or no. As soon as you say yes. He’ll also the hammer

JustARandomGuy

endacl wrote: »

Your speedo would have been reading 90 or thereabouts.

There is no get out of jail free card.

My Speedo reads 2kph over. 110 kph = 108 kph on radar for me. Tested plenty of times.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

Skatedude wrote: »

I've heard this before and yet every car i have owned for the last 15+ years speedo has always matched perfectly when confirmed with a gps speedo on a flat straight road, usually a motorway for better accuracy.
I know manufacturers cant have a speedo read low, but people keep mentioning big differences? haved they actually tested this or basing it on cars from decades ago?

Actually, that would be a good poll to post to see how different cars match their actual speed, gps speedo app with a phone in a cradle?

VAG cars are + 5 % , yours are not VAG i take it ?

It's probably worth pointing out that, in real life (not like boards where everyone has apparently gotten their very own high horse?) no judge will do you for 83 in an 80. It has never happened before, and it won't happen to you, OP.

I know what you're really asking is; will the judge throw the case out on a technicality, or can you present your case without bringing up the 60/80 error and get off that way.

The only way to really know for sure, would be to book in with a solicitor and tell him the truth (you know it's an error, but you're hoping to use it in your favour). Solicitor will be in and out of court every day of his life, and will tell you in about 10 seconds exactly where you stand. You'd need to hope the Garda that stopped you doesn't twig the mistake of 60/80, but as nobody ever gets done for 3km over the limit, i'm pretty sure the Garda himself would be raising his eyebrows and would realise something seems a bit off.

At which point he might look up your fine, realise the error and then bring it to a judge's attention (at which point you fall back on relying that the judge will throw it out).

Most solicitors (where i am anyway) will charge you €80 for a chat in my experience. So it's up to yourself if you think it's worth it or not. If you don't have any points yet, and you know you're in the wrong, then I'd just take it on the nose. If it's the difference between being on the road, and disqualified, then maybe might be worth the few euro to chat to the experts.

JustARandomGuy

DaDumTish wrote: »

VAG cars are + 5 % , yours are not VAG i take it ?

2005 Passat B6 was at 100 kph GPS / 105 ish speedo.

Current car is a 2007 BMW 5 Series

9935452

Skatedude wrote: »

endacl wrote: »

Car speedos routinely give a speed 5-10 kmph over actual speed. Why would the guard ‘round down’. The margin for error is built into the driver’s right foot.

The point I was making is that the OP didn’t inadvertently drift slightly north of the limit. Their own speedo would have told them that, according to the car, they were travelling substantially above the limit.

I've heard this before and yet every car i have owned for the last 15+ years speedo has always matched perfectly when confirmed with a gps speedo on a flat straight road, usually a motorway for better accuracy.
I know manufacturers cant have a speedo read low, but people keep mentioning big differences? haved they actually tested this or basing it on cars from decades ago?

Actually, that would be a good poll to post to see how different cars match their actual speed, gps speedo app with a phone in a cradle?

People can have big differences for a few reasons.
Like as one of the posters said vag cars are 5 percent. My last 2 cars were vw and audi and were out by roughly that.
Then there are the lads who change wheels and dont factor in a bigger or smaller wheel into the speed reading.
Also to be fair i was getting a 2 kmph difference between new tyres and ones that were nearly worn out so unless you were on new tyres continously its hard to say that the speed matches perfectly

mikeecho

Go to court and fight it ( if you want)

But if the Garda is aware of the error 60/80 zone.
He can ammend the summons prior to giving full evidence. The judge will usually accept this.

Then what do you do.

You are now accused of doing 83 in a 60

Are you going to risk double points and a larger fine.

You were caught doing 23k over the limit. Take it on the chin, pay the fine, move on.

This whole lark of speedo accuracy is irrelevant.

Wishbone Ash

Skatedude wrote: »

.. but people keep mentioning big differences? haved they actually tested this or basing it on cars from decades ago?

Actually, that would be a good poll to post to see how different cars match their actual speed, gps speedo app with a phone in a cradle?

Every car I have owned in the past 15-20 years overstates the speed by about 8-10%. In my current car, if I'm doing 120km/h according to the Sat Nav, the speedo will read about 133km/h. It will vary slightly according to tyre wear.

Wishbone Ash

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Drove that road for years and they never speed tested there or did any road traffic policing there....

I see them there occasionally. They used to be there a lot more a few years back and there were occasional threads here about it (as many people assumed it was an 80km/h zone).

ted1

JustARandomGuy wrote: »

2005 Passat B6 was at 100 kph GPS / 105 ish speedo.

Current car is a 2007 BMW 5 Series

Inflate your tyres and you’ll be closer to the mark

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's probably worth pointing out that, in real life (not like boards where everyone has apparently gotten their very own high horse?) no judge will do you for 83 in an 80. It has never happened before, and it won't happen to you, OP.

I know what you're really asking is; will the judge throw the case out on a technicality, or can you present your case without bringing up the 60/80 error and get off that way.

The only way to really know for sure, would be to book in with a solicitor and tell him the truth (you know it's an error, but you're hoping to use it in your favour). Solicitor will be in and out of court every day of his life, and will tell you in about 10 seconds exactly where you stand. You'd need to hope the Garda that stopped you doesn't twig the mistake of 60/80, but as nobody ever gets done for 3km over the limit, i'm pretty sure the Garda himself would be raising his eyebrows and would realise something seems a bit off.

At which point he might look up your fine, realise the error and then bring it to a judge's attention (at which point you fall back on relying that the judge will throw it out).

Most solicitors (where i am anyway) will charge you €80 for a chat in my experience. So it's up to yourself if you think it's worth it or not. If you don't have any points yet, and you know you're in the wrong, then I'd just take it on the nose. If it's the difference between being on the road, and disqualified, then maybe might be worth the few euro to chat to the experts.

my real world experience is that a judge won’t listen to excuses will so where you doing that speed is or no.

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

my real world experience is that a judge won’t listen to excuses will so where you doing that speed is or no.

My real world experiences differ greatly to yours, so.

Skatedude

DaDumTish wrote: »

VAG cars are + 5 % , yours are not VAG i take it ?

Older bmw's, e30,e31, e32, e34, e81,, moms e85 z4,

evosteo

Just an update on this. Appeal filled out near the end of may and received this letter last week. If you don't ask you will never know. I'll be keeping a closer eye on the speedo from now on.

GL

Car99

I was doing 160 in a 120 can you get my points removed

Phileas Frog

evosteo wrote: »

Just an update on this. Appeal filled out near the end of may and received this letter last week. If you don't ask you will never know. I'll be keeping a closer eye on the speedo from now on.

GL

Good on ya, says a lot about the "real world experiences" of some boards posters

bazz26

Priceless. Only in good old Ireland can someone be issued 3 points for doing 83 in a 80 zone yet have them removed due to a technicality when discovered they were actually doing 83 in a 60 zone.

slave1

bazz26 wrote: »

Priceless. Only in good old Ireland can someone be issued 3 points for doing 83 in a 80 zone yet have them removed due to a technicality when discovered they were actually doing 83 in a 60 zone.

Not really, the Garda need 'clean hands' on their documentation to adhere to whatever laws etc.
As an aside, I agree with the sentiment of your post but the bottom line is the Garda documentation was incorrect and they are not above the law so Garda fail

Spook_ie

slave1 wrote: »

Not really, the Garda need 'clean hands' on their documentation to adhere to whatever laws etc.
As an aside, I agree with the sentiment of your post but the bottom line is the Garda documentation was incorrect and they are not above the law so Garda fail

Is it a fail though, doubt the OP will speed in that area again.