Covering concrete panels

flogen

I’m looking to plant in front of / around some concrete fence panels and was hoping someone here could offer some advice

(It’s about 6ft high, 18ft across and gets plenty of sunshine)

My main criteria is that it covers the wall well - and ideally ads as much colour, for as much of the year, as possible.

Climbers was my first thought but the soil in front of the fence is quite shallow & has poor drainage.

Are there climbers that could survive regardless?

Alternatively would trailing plants in boxes across the top work?

Or could I even go down the root of planting on the fence itself - either in the cracks or through some kind of vertical garden thing?

Or maybe a mixture of all three??!

Any advice appreciated as it’s not an area I’ve much knowledge in.

looksee

It depends a bit on how much time and energy you are prepared to dedicate to this, and money

With no depth of soil or drainage planting climbers in the ground is a waste of plants. Since you have concrete panels and there is no danger of them rotting you could build out a planter with an open bottom (into the ground) to put some decent soil into and plant into that.

What is under the soil? You say it is shallow and poor drainage, is it something solid like concrete, or just poor soil? If there is some sort of soil there then a planter about 15" high filled with decent soil would give you a good opportunity to plant some nice climbers and a bit of space at the bottom for a few herbaceous plants, bulbs etc. It would need to be about 2ft wide back to front.

I would not recommend trying to put anything on top of the wall, 6ft is too high to keep an eye on it, and there is danger of them falling.

I don't think you will grow directly out of cracks, plants would not be happy. Using those 'vertical gardening' things are ok provided you put in some sort of watering system and are prepared to keep replanting until enough takes to create its own environment. It would be a good deal more expensive than the youtube videos suggest!

flogen

looksee wrote: »

It depends a bit on how much time and energy you are prepared to dedicate to this, and money

With no depth of soil or drainage planting climbers in the ground is a waste of plants. Since you have concrete panels and there is no danger of them rotting you could build out a planter with an open bottom (into the ground) to put some decent soil into and plant into that.

What is under the soil? You say it is shallow and poor drainage, is it something solid like concrete, or just poor soil? If there is some sort of soil there then a planter about 15" high filled with decent soil would give you a good opportunity to plant some nice climbers and a bit of space at the bottom for a few herbaceous plants, bulbs etc. It would need to be about 2ft wide back to front.

I would not recommend trying to put anything on top of the wall, 6ft is too high to keep an eye on it, and there is danger of them falling.

I don't think you will grow directly out of cracks, plants would not be happy. Using those 'vertical gardening' things are ok provided you put in some sort of watering system and are prepared to keep replanting until enough takes to create its own environment. It would be a good deal more expensive than the youtube videos suggest!

Seems like my options are even more limited than I had hoped!

In terms of the ground - there was a concrete platform in front of the fence that I couldn’t get rid of (and that I’ve mostly paved over). There’s about a foot of a gap between the paving and the fence, which I’ve broken into to create some amount of drainage... There’s crap soil and hardcore underneath it, so it’s really just to ensure water doesn’t get trapped.

The paving I put in, and the border around it, has given me about 15cm or so of depth to fill with soil... but from what you’re saying I’ll need to figure out a way of at least doubling that to have any chance of getting climbers going?

As tricky as that may be it seems like the best chance I have of covering the fence with some kind of greenery etc

looksee

Don't worry about the crap soil and hardcore, provided there is drainage through it. You will need to build up more like (min) 30 to 45cm of soil to put in shrubs (climbers) though, which is why I suggested a planter. Ideally approx two blocks high faced with something to make it look presentable. You are going to need quite a lot of growth to cover that amount of fence, if you do not have enough soil you will end up with sad single strands of plant that do very poorly.

New Home

How would Virginia creeper fare?

looksee

Would probably be very nice, and on a sunny wall would be happy enough to spread. I had one in a very large tub (some sort of large plastic barrel) and it didn't do much at all, it really needs some root space. You see it coming from out of a small hole in tarmac, but there must be some soil underneath. Given a decent size of planter though it would probably do ok, and it is self supporting.

Solanum does good coverage and is very easy, but it does need wires on the wall.

flogen

looksee wrote: »

Don't worry about the crap soil and hardcore, provided there is drainage through it. You will need to build up more like (min) 30 to 45cm of soil to put in shrubs (climbers) though, which is why I suggested a planter. Ideally approx two blocks high faced with something to make it look presentable. You are going to need quite a lot of growth to cover that amount of fence, if you do not have enough soil you will end up with sad single strands of plant that do very poorly.

Thanks for that.

A few follow on questions - the concrete platform isn’t the entire width of the fence so there is ground on the right-hand side that would be “proper” deep soil. Would there be something that I could plant there that could eventually make its way across? I’d imagine ivy would but want to avoid that like the plague that it is.

On the other hand, would there be anything shrub-like that might grow in shallower soil - even to 3ft or so? Ideally I’ll be able to get growth to cover the entire fence but if I can even get around some of it I’d be happy

And finally - you mentioned not putting stuff on top of the fence as there’s a risk of it falling... would that include those basket/buckets that essentially hook on? Given that each section of the fence is made of three ~2ft high panels, I was thinking of hooking a basket/box in between each one, which might also be enough to take the plain, grey prison wall vibe off the whole thing

looksee

Putting something into the soil beside the concrete would work up to a point. It depends on what you plant and the angle of the sun. Generally plants tend to grow towards the sun, so if you put something on the southern end of an east facing wall it will tend to not grow towards the north, so it won't cover any amount of the wall. If you put it at the northern end of an east facing wall there is a good chance it will grow towards the south. That is not 100% solution as there could be other things to consider, but I have found it a good general rule. Regardless of this, it would be a good idea to put something in there.

Things for shallower soil, are you still referring to planting into the existing ground? You could waste a lot of money on this - and lose everything in the first hot dry spell.

Is it out of the question to excavate a decent sized hole and break through the concrete then fill in with soil? That would give you a good planting hole for several things. Solanum, the hardy blue one or the (imo) prettier, but more tender, white one could work really well. Or the Virginia creeper suggested further up. Clematis would do well there, though in a sunny spot you would need to cover the roots with a slab or gravel to keep them cool. Lots of possibilities once you have soil and drainage.

Regarding the boxes on top of the fence. There are lots of notiony things sold that are going to transform your garden into a wonderland, they generally end up behind the shed. The boxes you mention might be fine at waist level where you can keep an eye on them, but they do not have a lot of space in them (because of the divider)so they will dry out quickly, and at a high level you will not easily see if they need watering - and the watering will not be easy - they would be a case of 'out of sight out of mind'.

macraignil

flogen wrote: »

Thanks for that.

A few follow on questions - the concrete platform isn’t the entire width of the fence so there is ground on the right-hand side that would be “proper” deep soil. Would there be something that I could plant there that could eventually make its way across? I’d imagine ivy would but want to avoid that like the plague that it is.

On the other hand, would there be anything shrub-like that might grow in shallower soil - even to 3ft or so? Ideally I’ll be able to get growth to cover the entire fence but if I can even get around some of it I’d be happy

And finally - you mentioned not putting stuff on top of the fence as there’s a risk of it falling... would that include those basket/buckets that essentially hook on? Given that each section of the fence is made of three ~2ft high panels, I was thinking of hooking a basket/box in between each one, which might also be enough to take the plain, grey prison wall vibe off the whole thing

I agree most climbers need some good soil but if you are content to have something more like a shrub then you have a few options as long as the ground there does not get completely waterlogged. There is red valerian(centranthus ruber) and butterfly bush(buddleia)(the more robust varieties) that can be seen growing out of walls and buildings. Even thyme, sedums and lavender can grow in very poor soil as long as they get good light and free draining conditions. My front garden has very poor soil but is north facing so probably gets less light than where you are looking to plant but I have posted a video of how some of these more robust plants look there.


If you have somewhere that has good soil near the concrete panels growing a climber from there should work once you have the patience to train it the direction you want. I have seen mature climbers of a few species with great length and size to their growth but it does take time to get them to go where you want them to. I'd suggest Russian vine(Fallopia baldschuanica) as one to get rapid coverage but it is even more problematic from the invasive nature point of view than ivy in my experience.

flogen

looksee wrote: »

Putting something into the soil beside the concrete would work up to a point. It depends on what you plant and the angle of the sun. Generally plants tend to grow towards the sun, so if you put something on the southern end of an east facing wall it will tend to not grow towards the north, so it won't cover any amount of the wall. If you put it at the northern end of an east facing wall there is a good chance it will grow towards the south. That is not 100% solution as there could be other things to consider, but I have found it a good general rule. Regardless of this, it would be a good idea to put something in there.

I had a mind to putting a big shrub or small tree in that spot as it would help cover a gap where the back fence meets the side fence - but if I have to choose I'd be much more inclined to use it for something that covers some/all of the back fence.

Things for shallower soil, are you still referring to planting into the existing ground? You could waste a lot of money on this - and lose everything in the first hot dry spell.

Is it out of the question to excavate a decent sized hole and break through the concrete then fill in with soil? That would give you a good planting hole for several things. Solanum, the hardy blue one or the (imo) prettier, but more tender, white one could work really well. Or the Virginia creeper suggested further up. Clematis would do well there, though in a sunny spot you would need to cover the roots with a slab or gravel to keep them cool. Lots of possibilities once you have soil and drainage.

Not out of the question - just trying to figure out how I'd go about it.

I created the bit of drainage that's there by going at the concrete with a sledgehammer but it was a lot of work with only a small return. I think I'd really need to cut into it to get a worthwhile amount of concrete off, and from there I could dig out whatever hardcore etc that I needed to to make space for soil... but I'm reluctant to go out and buy the likes of an angle grinder unless I know I'm not wasting my money.

Regarding the boxes on top of the fence. There are lots of notiony things sold that are going to transform your garden into a wonderland, they generally end up behind the shed. The boxes you mention might be fine at waist level where you can keep an eye on them, but they do not have a lot of space in them (because of the divider)so they will dry out quickly, and at a high level you will not easily see if they need watering - and the watering will not be easy - they would be a case of 'out of sight out of mind'.

Thanks - don't think I'll use them as the basis of the coverage so!

flogen

macraignil wrote: »

I agree most climbers need some good soil but if you are content to have something more like a shrub then you have a few options as long as the ground there does not get completely waterlogged. There is red valerian(centranthus ruber) and butterfly bush(buddleia)(the more robust varieties) that can be seen growing out of walls and buildings. Even thyme, sedums and lavender can grow in very poor soil as long as they get good light and free draining conditions. My front garden has very poor soil but is north facing so probably gets less light than where you are looking to plant but I have posted a video of how some of these more robust plants look there.

Funny enough, I have been thinking about how I could get a few herbs somewhere in the garden, so thyme or lavender would definitely be of interest.

I presume they wouldn't tend to grow particularly high, though. Do the others you mention have the potential to get a few feet of height under them?

If you have somewhere that has good soil near the concrete panels growing a climber from there should work once you have the patience to train it the direction you want. I have seen mature climbers of a few species with great length and size to their growth but it does take time to get them to go where you want them to. I'd suggest Russian vine(Fallopia baldschuanica) as one to get rapid coverage but it is even more problematic from the invasive nature point of view than ivy in my experience.

Thanks - I think I'd be patient enough... and certainly would prefer a slower grower to something that's going to be a nightmare to manage in a few years. Once I'm not having to wait a decade to get the coverage I want!

macraignil

flogen wrote: »

Funny enough, I have been thinking about how I could get a few herbs somewhere in the garden, so thyme or lavender would definitely be of interest.

I presume they wouldn't tend to grow particularly high, though. Do the others you mention have the potential to get a few feet of height under them?



Thanks - I think I'd be patient enough... and certainly would prefer a slower grower to something that's going to be a nightmare to manage in a few years. Once I'm not having to wait a decade to get the coverage I want!

You are right about the thyme. It will get to only about 30cm at most. The lavender depends on the variety and I have one long stemmed one that has flower heads that stretch to just over a metre. The red valerian goes to about 60 to 70cm and the buddleia would be the tallest growing with the oldest one I have in the garden at over 3 metres. I have seen bigger ones but they have potential to get blown over if they get too tall too quickly. The biggest I have seen growing out of an old building would have been about 2metres but I have also seen bigger than this on very rough ground in disused urban areas.