Time off for bereavement counselling

Hells Belles

My father died 11 weeks ago in a hospice. They are wonderful in that they have offered me bereavement counselling. I had my first session last week. I arranged it for as late in the day as possible i.e. 5pm, meaning I had to leave work a half hour early.

The counsellor said I am suffering from post traumatic stress from my dad's death and she's concerned that I need to get over that and get to a stage where I am simply 'missing my dad'. As a result, she wants to see me once a week at the same time for the next 4 weeks.

I informed my manager who said that they'd have to check with HR whether I'd need to make the time up as 'it's not a doctor's appointment'. I know I am extra-sensitive at the moment but I had hoped that some discretion would have been used here and I would have been given the time as bereavement is not something that happens every day.

I just feel really upset - am I being over-sensitive?
Thanks

Squatman

my condolences. maybe mention to your manager, that you would like this matter handled with discretion, and that it is your intention to work the hours up, either by working at home, coming to work early, or working thru lunch, ask him not to broadcast the sensitive issue through the companys management team

bullpost

Hells Belles wrote: »

My father died 11 weeks ago in a hospice. They are wonderful in that they have offered me bereavement counselling. I had my first session last week. I arranged it for as late in the day as possible i.e. 5pm, meaning I had to leave work a half hour early.

The counsellor said I am suffering from post traumatic stress from my dad's death and she's concerned that I need to get over that and get to a stage where I am simply 'missing my dad'. As a result, she wants to see me once a week at the same time for the next 4 weeks.

I informed my manager who said that they'd have to check with HR whether I'd need to make the time up as 'it's not a doctor's appointment'. I know I am extra-sensitive at the moment but I had hoped that some discretion would have been used here and I would have been given the time as bereavement is not something that happens every day.

I just feel really upset - am I being over-sensitive?
Thanks

Depends how your HR dept. operate, but I would expect a manager to be able to approve a total of 2 hours over 4 weeks for this purpose.

OMM 0000

I think you're being over-sensitive.

I'm sorry.

I did therapy on a weekend before. Could you not arrange your counselling on a weekend?

drunkmonkey

I think everyone suffers PTSD after something like that...it's gonna take some time counselling or no coucelling. I didn't get any not sure if that was a good idea or not was depressed enough without someone confirming it.
It's still very fresh, even in 6mts it's gonna hurt. Going to be the 2yr anniversary of losing mine in a few months. Think I've come to terms with it but still doesn't sit easy with me.

This might sound a little odd but if you haven't seen the new Ricky Gervais program After Life you should make it your business to watch it. It's a bit of Therapy.

As for work, you've just had major trauma they'll need to work around you. Time with your friends and walks in the country are what you need most. Stay away from alcohol/drugs until your head is a bit better, but as I said it's going to take time. Year anniversary is going to stir it up again. Just tuff through it the last thing he'd want is you moping around. Easier said than done though.
Summertime will help, take some vitamin D in the meantime.

Watch that program. It'll get easier as time moves on.

Hells Belles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I think you're being over-sensitive.

I'm sorry.

I did therapy on a weekend before. Could you not arrange your counselling on a weekend?

Thanks! No the hospice concerned is very small and only has one bereavement counsellor who does not work weekends. I already mentioned that I had arranged the appointments so I only had to take half an hour off work. I spent the last day of my dad's life in work as I was too conscientious to ask for the afternoon off and I will never get those precious hours back so I think it works both ways...

Triceratops Ballet

That's frustrating as it actually is equivalent of a doctors appointment, it's one of the big problems around the discussion of mental health issues. People wouldn't hesitate to give you the time off if you were vomiting but if you're trying to look after your mind to hell with you.

I work in HR and actually line managers can be pretty bad at this kind of thing esp if they're not into the people management aspect of their role. I'd have advised going to HR rather than the line manager based on my experience, but I'm in a good team and we're conscious of these kinds of things, whereas some of the line managers are a bit blunt when it comes to sensitive issues.

When my own mother died I found my manager to be very insensitive about the whole thing and I was given no space to get my head together and was actually criticised for not being the bubbly person I'd been before. The HR team obviously realised what a liability that attitude was and were very understanding when I needed time off etc. (I wasn't in HR then myself)

In addition to this mind yourself OP it's not easy, it's a long road, and it never really goes away. My mother died 8 years ago and would have been 60 today and it still stings. Do the counselling, try not to worry about what work think. This is important for you.

Hells Belles

Squatman wrote: »

my condolences. maybe mention to your manager, that you would like this matter handled with discretion, and that it is your intention to work the hours up, either by working at home, coming to work early, or working thru lunch, ask him not to broadcast the sensitive issue through the companys management team

Thanks - good advice. I don't mind working the time up, I just think it's a bit heavy handed getting HR involved.

OMM 0000

Hells Belles wrote: »

Thanks! No the hospice concerned is very small and only has one bereavement counsellor who does not work weekends. I already mentioned that I had arranged the appointments so I only had to take half an hour off work. I spent the last day of my dad's life in work as I was too conscientious to ask for the afternoon off and I will never get those precious hours back so I think it works both ways...

Wow, it's just a half hour.

I think your manager wants to give you the time off, but needs to double check with HR.

This is not your manager being insensitive or an asshole; she just needs to double check it's ok. After all, she doesn't want to get in trouble for giving you the time off.

If I am understanding correctly, no one has said no. You're just upset your manager didn't immediately say yes.

Hells Belles

bullpost wrote: »

Depends how your HR dept. operate, but I would expect a manager to be able to approve a total of 2 hours over 4 weeks for this purpose.

Yes, that's what I thought!

Hells Belles

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

That's frustrating as it actually is equivalent of a doctors appointment, it's one of the big problems around the discussion of mental health issues. People wouldn't hesitate to give you the time off if you were vomiting but if you're trying to look after your mind to hell with you.

I work in HR and actually line managers can be pretty bad at this kind of thing esp if they're not into the people management aspect of their role. I'd have advised going to HR rather than the line manager based on my experience, but I'm in a good team and we're conscious of these kinds of things, whereas some of the line managers are a bit blunt when it comes to sensitive issues.

When my own mother died I found my manager to be very insensitive about the whole thing and I was given no space to get my head together and was actually criticised for not being the bubbly person I'd been before. The HR team obviously realised what a liability that attitude was and were very understanding when I needed time off etc. (I wasn't in HR then myself)

In addition to this mind yourself OP it's not easy, it's a long road, and it never really goes away. My mother died 8 years ago and would have been 60 today and it still stings. Do the counselling, try not to worry about what work think. This is important for you.

Thanks so much for your lovely reply - you realise the first time you lose someone that so many people have been through it too..

Hells Belles

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think everyone suffers PTSD after something like that...it's gonna take some time counselling or no coucelling. I didn't get any not sure if that was a good idea or not was depressed enough without someone confirming it.
It's still very fresh, even in 6mts it's gonna hurt. Going to be the 2yr anniversary of losing mine in a few months. Think I've come to terms with it but still doesn't sit easy with me.

This might sound a little odd but if you haven't seen the new Ricky Gervais program After Life you should make it your business to watch it. It's a bit of Therapy.

As for work, you've just had major trauma they'll need to work around you. Time with your friends and walks in the country are what you need most. Stay away from alcohol/drugs until your head is a bit better, but as I said it's going to take time. Year anniversary is going to stir it up again. Just tuff through it the last thing he'd want is you moping around. Easier said than done though.
Summertime will help, take some vitamin D in the meantime.

Watch that program. It'll get easier as time moves on.

Thanks so much - I will definitely take your advice and watch After Life! I'm with you on the walks too and lots of sleep!

ZX7R

Sorry for your lost op.
One option is to go to your gp and tell them you are getting counseling and need a cert for work to attend the sessions.

Triceratops Ballet

Hells Belles wrote: »

Thanks so much for your lovely reply - you realise the first time you lose someone that so many people have been through it too..

Worst club in the world and you don't have any control over when you join.

Hells Belles wrote: »

I spent the last day of my dad's life in work as I was too conscientious to ask for the afternoon off and I will never get those precious hours back so I think it works both ways...

OT but don't beat yourself up over this, you will always feel like you could have done more, but in situations like that you do the things you're capable of doing and of handling. It's always easy to think in hindsight you could have done better, but you did what you could at the time, that was all you were able to do.

John Hutton

Hells Belles wrote: »

Thanks so much for your lovely reply - you realise the first time you lose someone that so many people have been through it too..

Hopefully it's just that your line manager is wary to say yes without checking and will come back and say it's ok.

If they end up saying no I would seriously consider looking for a new job, but we are not at that stage yet.

One of my staff had a bereavement and we bent over backwards to look after them, up to and including facilitating a three day week etc as it should be.

Tbh if there is not a simple response like you having to work back the half hour over the course of the week that's a joke and you should see a GP and get signed off to give yourself a chance to come to terms with things and get the assistance from the counsellor.

I'm very sorry for your loss but I would try and not get upset about work unless you get an actual no, because at this stage it's being checked and one has to hope there is someone along the line somewhere that has some common sense who will positively address this.

OMM 0000

John Hutton wrote: »

Hopefully it's just that your line manager is wary to say yes without checking and will come back and say it's ok.

That's definitely what it is.

I cannot see there being any other explanation and outcome.

Mrs OBumble

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

That's frustrating as it actually is equivalent of a doctors appointment, it's one of the big problems around the discussion of mental health issues. People wouldn't hesitate to give you the time off if you were vomiting but if you're trying to look after your mind to hell with you.

It's more like the equivalent of a specialists appointment for an illness which is not stopping you from being able to work right now - but might do so in the future if you don't get it treated.

Many employers will not allow "sick leave" for appointments like that, either. I've certainly had to use annual leave for every non-urgent doctors appointment in my current role with a medium sized Irish company.

Whether half-an-hour worked up later is an option or not really depends on the job: in many it's not an issue, but where service delivery is time critical, it could require getting someone else to cover an entire shift etc. If the workplace is organised so that the manager even notices you being going 1/2 an hour early, then it might well be a time-sensitive one. Also, the manager has to consider how it would look to other employees, especially if s/he cannot tell them the reason why Hells Belles is being allowed to leave early "every" Monday (or whatever).


While it's great that the hospice offers free counselling, you could consider seeing someone privately who works evenings and/or weekends. This would free up the hospice counsellor's time to work with patients, and give you, as the customer, more control over the service you receive. (It just sounds a bit too neat that the hospice counsellor can "diagnose" PTSD on the strength of one session, and predict exactly how many sessions you'll need ... which is most likely the exact number she's funded to provide to a family member.)

John Hutton

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's more like the equivalent of a specialists appointment for an illness which is not stopping you from being able to work right now - but might do so in the future if you don't get it treated.

Many employers will not allow "sick leave" for appointments like that, either. I've certainly had to use annual leave for every non-urgent doctors appointment in my current role with a medium sized Irish company.

Whether half-an-hour worked up later is an option or not really depends on the job: in many it's not an issue, but where service delivery is time critical, it could require getting someone else to cover an entire shift etc. If the workplace is organised so that the manager even notices you being going 1/2 an hour early, then it might well be a time-sensitive one. Also, the manager has to consider how it would look to other employees, especially if s/he cannot tell them the reason why Hells Belles is being allowed to leave early "every" Monday (or whatever).


While it's great that the hospice offers free counselling, you could consider seeing someone privately who works evenings and/or weekends. This would free up the hospice counsellor's time to work with patients, and give you, as the customer, more control over the service you receive. (It just sounds a bit too neat that the hospice counsellor can "diagnose" PTSD on the strength of one session, and predict exactly how many sessions you'll need ... which is most likely the exact number she's funded to provide to a family member.)

How shortsighted of those employers.

You should find an employer who values you and treats you like a human being. I have worked places were they had no consideration for employees (for considerably more money than I am.on now) and it's just not worth it.

Your comparison is not even a proper one, OP is understandably in a bad way, going to see a counsellor to look after ones mental health in a time of crisis/great difficulty is not like seeing a specialist to have a chat about a sore back or asthma.

People work hard, it's not too much to ask to leave a half hour early to see a counsellor after a bereavment and if your employer thinks it is you should remember that when they ask you to go above and beyond and look for another job.

It is beyond stupid for employers to be so shortsighted, to risk the goodwill, enthusiasm and staff retention over something short term that in the scheme of things doesn't really matter in comparison.

If any of my staff came to me in a situation like OP has it wouldnt even need to be thought about, in fact the main concern would be what other supports to offer OP like the employee support service etc.

acer911

Hells Belles wrote: »

My father died 11 weeks ago in a hospice. They are wonderful in that they have offered me bereavement counselling. I had my first session last week. I arranged it for as late in the day as possible i.e. 5pm, meaning I had to leave work a half hour early.

The counsellor said I am suffering from post traumatic stress from my dad's death and she's concerned that I need to get over that and get to a stage where I am simply 'missing my dad'. As a result, she wants to see me once a week at the same time for the next 4 weeks.

I informed my manager who said that they'd have to check with HR whether I'd need to make the time up as 'it's not a doctor's appointment'. I know I am extra-sensitive at the moment but I had hoped that some discretion would have been used here and I would have been given the time as bereavement is not something that happens every day.

I just feel really upset - am I being over-sensitive?
Thanks

Sorry for your loss but I am sorry I think you are being ridiculous. Can you not just come in 30 mins early that day? Take 30 min less lunch? Or work 30 mins extra some other day? I think you should be offering this and even if refused doing it anyway to make up for the lost time.

John Hutton

acer911 wrote: »

Sorry for your loss but I am sorry I think you are being ridiculous. Can you not just come in 30 mins early that day? Take 30 min less lunch? Or work 30 mins extra some other day? I think you should be offering this and even if refused doing it anyway to make up for the lost time.

OP says elsewhere that they are happy to make up the time.

acer911

John Hutton wrote: »

OP says elsewhere that they are happy to make up the time.

Well that begs the question what is the issue?

OMM 0000

acer911 wrote: »

Well that begs the question what is the issue?

The only issue, as far as I'm aware, is her manager didn't immediately agree to it, and had to make sure it was ok with HR.

This is what has really upset the OP.

Although the manager may care about the OP as a person, the manager is first and foremost her boss, not her friend. And although the company may be a nice place to work, it is first and foremost a place of work, not her family.

Perhaps this can be a learning experience for the OP.