Meeting After Handing in My Notice

piplip87

Hey guys,

I work in a 24/365 operation with month long shift work. I haven't had a weekend off since October. (I have had holidays taken at weekends but no weekend rostered off).

I requested a few holiday days back in February for summer, I was the first to request these off but they where still denied.

I received my schedule for the summer and no weekends off until September.

I seen this and combined with a month of nights in March, May and July.

As I was on nightshift, I typed up an email to my TL and CC the ops manager and shift lead of my intentions to resign at the end of April. (6 weeks notice)
My TL and Shift lead replied wishing me the best.

I then went on a job hunt and on Friday I got word I found a new jobs. Slight increase in money better working hours.

I'm currently on a weeks AL to recover after an absolute nightmare month if nights. The Ops manager has got back to me today. He has told me he would like me to stay on and has requested a meeting in Wednesday morning to discuss things.

What style should I use in this meeting ? Ideally I'd settle for weekends off once a month as it would enable me to spend more time with the GF and kids ?

Should I ask for more money and weekends off and settle for the weekends off ? Or is it best to go into the meeting saying I just want weekends off for family reasons and hope to sob story works ?

I'm a high preformer, perfect attendance (two sick days since last April) with an eye on a move to other projects within the same company, I hear there's a client based roles coming up in October, in a area that fascinates me, which is why I want to stay.

Any advice would be appreciated as I'm fecking bricking it ?

Paul_Mc1988

piplip87 wrote:

I'm currently on a weeks AL to recover after an absolute nightmare month if nights. The Ops manager has got back to me today. He has told me he would like me to stay on and has requested a meeting in Wednesday morning to discuss things.

If you need annual leave after a month of nights due to the jet lag effect it gives it may be time to get out for the sake of your health.

piplip87 wrote:

What style should I use in this meeting ? Ideally I'd settle for weekends off once a month as it would enable me to spend more time with the GF and kids ?

Is this company a multinational based in grange castle or leixlip?. If it is dont believe a word the manager says. As soon as it suits they will start you back to the same crap shift under the term "business needs".

piplip87 wrote:

Should I ask for more money and weekends off and settle for the weekends off ? Or is it best to go into the meeting saying I just want weekends off for family reasons and hope to sob story works ?

Most companies like these only do pay reviews once a year and say they cant give you a bump until then. If it suits him at the time he will look after you but 9/10 times hes shafting you.

piplip87 wrote:

I'm a high preformer, perfect attendance (two sick days since last April) with an eye on a move to other projects within the same company, I hear there's a client based roles coming up in October, in a area that fascinates me, which is why I want to stay.

I went three years without a late or a single sick day with outstanding reviews. The pay rises dropped of as they had to bump other people who were doing 25% of the work I was doing. At the end of the day you are just a number to them.

fritzelly

Slight increase in money better working hours.

There's your answer there, add in they want you to come in to discuss "something" while on leave is not on either. I would be refusing the meeting and saying I'll see you when I'm back in work

piplip87

If you need annual leave after a month of nights due to the jet lag effect it gives it may be time to get out for the sake of your health.
[/quote]

No I don't need to take the AL after the Nightshift. It just happened this week was free.

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Is this company a multinational based in grange castle or leixlip?. If it is dont believe a word the manager says. As soon as it suits they will start you back to the same crap shift under the term "business needs". .

No it's not the company you are thinking off. I'm well aware that the possibility that "business need" will change but I've my eye set on the new upcoming roles but I also need to think of my other half and kid during the summer months. The new job I have on the table seems good on paper but it means probationary period, loss of VHI, buying my own lunch, where if I can get even a few weekends off then move within the company, it will lead to a more comfortable life in the long run.

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

went three years without a late or a single sick day with outstanding reviews. The pay rises dropped of as they had to bump other people who were doing 25% of the work I was doing. At the end of the day you are just a number to them.

In my situation it's one pay bump per calender year to account for promotions and moving between projects/clients. So I would be best off not mentioning money as there will be a more substantial gain from the new project in the autumn.

I just don't want to go in all guns blazing and come out with nothing or I don't want to come out of the meeting with the famous I'll look into it but put your notice on hold.

I think I'm going to ask for Monday-Friday until September. If they cannot manage that considering they preach family life as part of the Work Life Balance, the recruiter also told me it would be very flexible for parents when I took the job. Then I will leave and start a fresh.

mikemac2

Take the new role OP

Even if you stay you will be looking around again in the near future.

The operations manager wants to keep you but they never cared about plans or goals or shifts until you handed in your notice. It shouldn’t have come to this

They need someone reliable to do those hours and they know you will do it. Such a thing as being too reliable. Despite promises someone else might get that new role in October

piplip87

fritzelly wrote: »

There's your answer there, add in they want you to come in to discuss "something" while on leave is not on either. I would be refusing the meeting and saying I'll see you when I'm back in work

I'm actually back in work on Wednesday morning. Yes a slight increase and better hours in role I'm not very interested in. My current role is fairly unique,.I also tick all the boxes for the new client based roles in Autumn. It's just family life, my partner works Monday - Friday so to have the weekends with our wee fella together would be fantastic and would make up for all I've missed since the shifts started. Sorry for ranting on heads melted

piplip87

mikemac2 wrote: »

Take the new role OP

Even if you stay you will be looking around again in the near future.

The operations manager wants to keep you but they never cared about plans or goals or shifts until you handed in your notice. It shouldn’t have come to this

They need someone reliable to do those hours and they know you will do it. Such a thing as being too reliable. Despite promises someone else might get that new role in October

Thank you for your reply. The October role isn't a done deal or there have been no indications as to I will get it. One thing I have to say it will be an open and fair competition to the roles.

Ah I don't know what I'll do yet. New role doesn't start until end of May. Have a week or two to decide what I'm doing. Sure I can meet on Wednesday and see what is said. At the end of the day one way or another I'll have work and that's the main thing. Plenty others not so lucky

Hoboo

Bit late at night to go into specifics, but I'd strongly advise you speak to the WRC. In just your first post there are multiple infringements on your employee rights, the fact you have kids makes it even worse.

It's free information (they can't give you legal advice) but they'll tell you exactly what laws apply to you.

Sounds like you're working for monkeys. BTW just because something is stated in a contract doesn't make it binding, or even legal.


https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/

piplip87

Hoboo wrote: »

Bit late at night to go into specifics, but I'd strongly advise you speak to the WRC. In just your first post there are multiple infringements on your employee rights, the fact you have kids makes it even worse.

It's free information (they can't give you legal advice) but they'll tell you exactly what laws apply to you.

Sounds like you're working for monkeys. BTW just because something is stated in a contract doesn't make it binding, or even legal.


https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/

I've had a look thank you. I don't think there's anything.

We work 4 months of nights during the year so we will not fall into the nightworker bracket as it's over 50%.

Holidays have been denied but we have been given alternative dates that are available. The employer can do this.

I can't find anything else but I know they've been in constant touch with the legal department when rostering shifts etc so I doubt there's anything there

_Brian

Go in deep, I’d be looking to eliminate nights or weekends and a pay increase. You can soften on some points but I’d start tough.

I worked same shifts for 13 years and it drains the life out of you, it breaks your social habits and you miss allot of family occasions. It needs to pay serious money to compensate for these losses. Many don’t understand what it’s like to be rostered to work every single weekend for 13 years, it becomes relentless.

There’s a good deal of churn at the moment and staff retention is becoming a hot topic, use this to your advantage.

Appleguy

Personally, having made the decision to hand in your notice I wouldn’t go back on it no matter what they offer you. The reason for this is I’ve often found that when an employee hands in their notice the dynamic changes between the employer and the employee. Even if you stayed now they would be questioning your commitment to the company and your role. This may also have an impact on the opportunities later in the year if you have asked to leave the company earlier that same year.

They want to keep you because you sound like a good employee and it’s less trouble for them to keep you than to look for somebody else with your skills and experience. Think about the reasons why you wanted to leave and be wary of what they offer you on Wednesday to keep you (if they offer you anything).

Paul_Mc1988

_Brian wrote:

I worked same shifts for 13 years and it drains the life out of you, it breaks your social habits and you miss allot of family occasions. It needs to pay serious money to compensate for these losses. Many don’t understand what it’s like to be rostered to work every single weekend for 13 years, it becomes relentless.

Doing it 4 years now and it's taking its toll. Every week I find myself looking online for other jobs.

_Brian wrote:

There’s a good deal of churn at the moment and staff retention is becoming a hot topic, use this to your advantage.

My place just can't keep the new hires. We work 4 weeks of days then 4 weeks of nights and so on. As soon as they do the first week of nights they realise its not worth it. They're also pushing gender quotas but any of the women that start in their early to mid 20s want a good social life and are the first to go as working Friday and Saturday night kills any social life you have.

OldMrBrennan83

Take the new job. They will make a load of empty promises and then continue to take advantage of you once you turn down the new job.

seamus

Appleguy wrote: »

Personally, having made the decision to hand in your notice I wouldn’t go back on it no matter what they offer you.

This. It's my general approach to changing jobs. I find the new job and sign the contract. It's a done deal then.

If I wanted better pay or conditions, I would ask for them rather than go job hunting. So if I'm job hunting, then I'm already gone.

OP, your approach to this is a bit conciliatory. Saying that you would "settle for" one weekend off. Why just settle? If you like the job in general, but the conditions are killing you, then write down all of the things that you hate about it. And bring that into the meeting. As Brian says, go in deep. You have no reason to go in begging for a slight improvement; you have an offer on the table. Go in looking for everything to be fixed and you might get them to meet you halfway.

However, ask yourself honestly; if the company were to give you a slight bump in pay and one weekend off per month, would you actually be satisfied? Could you see yourself skipping merrily into work for another 3 years on that basis? Or would you be miserable again in 3 months?

If the answer is no, then you have to ask whether you want to be there at all.

On a personal level, nothing is more important than family. Yes, one needs to earn money and personal job satisfaction is also important. But there has to be a balance. If the choice for me was between a really interesting job where I'm constantly on shift and never get to see my family, versus a standard job with normal hours that pays half the amount, then give me the latter every time.

com1

Heres a trick... dont say or negotiate anything at the meeting. Let the ops manager make their pitch. Get clarification on anything not clear, take notes and then tell the manager that you will take it away and ponder the offer and get back to them.

Dont let the manager put you on the back foot by telling them what you want. You need to find out what they are offering and work up from that rather than them working down from your position.

Remember the manager has most likely put a lot of thought into this and discussed it with others. Their first offer will definately not be their best. Let them do the work if they want to keep you

Hoboo

piplip87 wrote: »

I've had a look thank you. I don't think there's anything.

We work 4 months of nights during the year so we will not fall into the nightworker bracket as it's over 50%.

Holidays have been denied but we have been given alternative dates that are available. The employer can do this.

I can't find anything else but I know they've been in constant touch with the legal department when rostering shifts etc so I doubt there's anything there

I've worked in HR for 15 years, im not making it up. There are multiple cases giving precedent. Particularly look at not getting holidays over the summer months. Holidays can of course be denied and the employer has power to choose when you take them, however, this needs to be reconciled against family responsibilities and rest and recreation. No holidays during the summer period when children are off school is day one employment law.

That's just one point.

Btw the company legal department works in the companies best interests, not yours. And unless they have a specific employment law expert and not a jack of all trades they won't have a clue. I see it every day with clients

Rikand

You will find happiness with a new love

piplip87

Hey guys thanks for all your advice.

So the meeting went extremely well. Got what I needed and got it in writing. Sure we will see what happens.