door to door enquiries

7znbd9xmoiupye

A house was destroyed and a TD said on radio people felt imtimidated by the door to door garda . It got me wondering if you have to let in gardai doing door to door. i doubt it

Also i wondered if you are obliged to answer their questions. in one sense it is illegal to withhold info but one has the right not to self implicate. How do you know if you are a suspect or not.?

I made up this simplified analogy

Assume tom lives beside Pat.
they do not talk but they do not argue either. ignore each other
tom is attacked in his home
pat has no part in it and did not een know

but pat does not want to be involved
so can he refuse to answer any door to door
Consider he does not know if he is a suspect
if he was a suspect he is not obliged to implicat himself
on the other hand the garda may think he is withholding info
but he is not

So what happens if he says he will not answer any questions?

Teddy Daniels

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

A house was destroyed and a TD said on radio people felt imtimidated by the door to door garda . It got me wondering if you have to let in gardai doing door to door. i doubt it

Also i wondered if you are obliged to answer their questions. in one sense it is illegal to withhold info but one has the right not to self implicate. How do you know if you are a suspect or not.?

I made up this simplified analogy

Assume tom lives beside Pat.
they do not talk but they do not argue either. ignore each other
tom is attacked in his home
pat has no part in it and did not een know

but pat does not want to be involved
so can he refuse to answer any door to door
Consider he does not know if he is a suspect
if he was a suspect he is not obliged to implicat himself
on the other hand the garda may think he is withholding info
but he is not

So what happens if he says he will not answer any questions?

just say you don't know anything if you don't know anything.

7znbd9xmoiupye

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

just say you don't know anything if you don't know anything.

that is not the point i am interest in the legal situation

punisher5112

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

A house was destroyed and a TD said on radio people felt imtimidated by the door to door garda . It got me wondering if you have to let in gardai doing door to door. i doubt it

Also i wondered if you are obliged to answer their questions. in one sense it is illegal to withhold info but one has the right not to self implicate. How do you know if you are a suspect or not.?

I made up this simplified analogy

Assume tom lives beside Pat.
they do not talk but they do not argue either. ignore each other
tom is attacked in his home
pat has no part in it and did not een know

but pat does not want to be involved
so can he refuse to answer any door to door
Consider he does not know if he is a suspect
if he was a suspect he is not obliged to implicat himself
on the other hand the garda may think he is withholding info
but he is not

So what happens if he says he will not answer any questions?

You are well within your rights to answer no comment to any questions.

The Specialist

punisher5112 wrote: »

You are well within your rights to answer no comment to any questions.

“I don’t know anything” is a LOT less suspicious than “no comment”

punisher5112

The Specialist wrote: »

“I don’t know anything” is a LOT less suspicious than “no comment”

Yes but if it were an interview style or you are threatened with action.

In work I have used the no comment for an interview where they were outside their own procedures so I didn't answer any questions as if I were to then this would open up the case.

Force Carrier

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

that is not the point i am interest in the legal situation

The legal situation is that he doesn't even have to let the Garda on to his property. If the Garda calls to his door(for house to house inquiries purposes) and the eccentric man calls out the window that the Garda is not welcome and that he wants him to leave then at that point the Garda is trespassing if he doesn't leave.

Peregrinus

The legal position is clear, but that's not the OP's question. The OP's question is "So what happens if he says he will not answer any questions?"

What happens is that the guards begin to think that he may be a person of interest. They ask themselves, why is he being unco-operative? Is it because he's a cantankerous old bastard? Is it because he hates his neighbour, and does not want to do anything that might assist in bringing the perpetrators of a crime against him to justice? Is it because he knows something relevant, but is himself being intimidated into silence by the perpetrators? It it because he himself is in some way connected with the crime, or with the perpetrators of the crime?

Either of the last two possiblities will interest them, since it suggests that by investigating him and his connections further, they might get closer to the perpetrators of the crime. So they are likely to dig deeper.

So, if what he wants is not to be bothered, a refusal to engage is a poor strategy. If in fact he has no relevant information, as stated in the OP, then much the best strategy is to talk to the guards and answer their question honestly.

the_syco

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

Assume tom lives beside Pat.
they do not talk but they do not argue either. ignore each other
tom is attacked in his home
pat has no part in it and did not een know

but pat does not want to be involved
so can he refuse to answer any door to door
Consider he does not know if he is a suspect

I'd say not wanting to assist the Gardai after his neighbour is attacked in their own home would make him a suspect!

7znbd9xmoiupye

Peregrinus wrote: »

The legal position is clear, but that's not the OP's question. The OP's question is "So what happens if he says he will not answer any questions?"

What happens is that the guards begin to think that he may be a person of interest. They ask themselves, why is he being unco-operative? Is it because he's a cantankerous old bastard? Is it because he hates his neighbour, and does not want to do anything that might assist in bringing the perpetrators of a crime against him to justice? Is it because he knows something relevant, but is himself being intimidated into silence by the perpetrators? It it because he himself is in some way connected with the crime, or with the perpetrators of the crime?

Either of the last two possiblities will interest them, since it suggests that by investigating him and his connections further, they might get closer to the perpetrators of the crime. So they are likely to dig deeper.

So, if what he wants is not to be bothered, a refusal to engage is a poor strategy. If in fact he has no relevant information, as stated in the OP, then much the best strategy is to talk to the guards and answer their question honestly.

when you say the legal position is clear is it correct he is not obliged to answer any questions? would that not be witholding info. although he has no info they do not know that.

is it as force carrier says "The legal situation is that he doesn't even have to let the Garda on to his property."does that apply in door to door. Also being questioned on the door he would not have the rights protection he would if arrested


Also suppose they dig and find nothing cos he genuinely knows nothing? in the case on the radio it seemed to be the peoploe did not want to give info because they did not want to be involved given the perpetrators ethnic status


It is not a crime to be a cantankerous bastard. but it is to withold info

Peregrinus

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

when you say the legal position is clear is it correct he is not obliged to answer any questions? would that not be witholding info. although he has no info they do not know that.

There's no general crime of "withholding information" in Ireland. There are limited circumstances in which you are required to give the guards information, and limited infomration which you are required to give them in those circumstances. There's no legal obligation to answer door-to-door enquiries in the hypothetical case outlined in this thread.

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

is it as force carrier says "The legal situation is that he doesn't even have to let the Garda on to his property."does that apply in door to door. Also being questioned on the door he would not have the rights protection he would if arrested

If the guards knock on your door to ask you questions, you can tell them you don't wish to answer questions and ask them to leave. They will leave. That behaviour in itself would not give them grounds for arresting you or for getting a search warrant entitling them to enter your property, but it may arouse suspicions which lead to further investigations which might or might not yield evidence on the basis of which they could arrest you on suspicion of something, or get a search warrant.

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

Also suppose they dig and find nothing cos he genuinely knows nothing? in the case on the radio it seemed to be the peoploe did not want to give info because they did not want to be involved given the perpetrators ethnic status

I know nothing about the particular case on the radio. In general the reason why someone doesn't want to answer questions is irrelevant; if you're not obliged to answer questions, your particular motivation for choosing not to answer them is neither here nor there.

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

It is not a crime to be a cantankerous bastard. but it is to withold info

In general no, it isn't.

7znbd9xmoiupye

Peregrinus wrote: »

There's no general crime of "withholding information" in Ireland. There are limited circumstances in which you are required to give the guards information, and limited infomration which you are required to give them in those circumstances. There's no legal obligation to answer door-to-door enquiries in the hypothetical case outlined in this thread.


If the guards knock on your door to ask you questions, you can tell them you don't wish to answer questions and ask them to leave. They will leave. That behaviour in itself would not give them grounds for arresting you or for getting a search warrant entitling them to enter your property, but it may arouse suspicions which lead to further investigations which might or might not yield evidence on the basis of which they could arrest you on suspicion of something, or get a search warrant.


I know nothing about the particular case on the radio. In general the reason why someone doesn't want to answer questions is irrelevant; if you're not obliged to answer questions, your particular motivation for choosing not to answer them is neither here nor there.


In general no, it isn't.

what limited circumstances. I thought i was a crime to withold info, sure i heard of it in gangland crimes.

I don't know much about the radio case, only what i posted. my own question is hypothetical inspired by that

i was in a house once when there was door to door. I answered their questins. i did not see anything of value to them. they asked if we had cctv. we didn't. but don't they have to make an application for cctv? They cannot just take the tape there and then?

Peregrinus

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

what limited circumstances.

There's a variety of different circumstances. In certain circumstances, for example, you're obliged to give your name and adress, or to produce a licence or evidence of having insurance.

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

I thought i was a crime to withold info, sure i heard of it in gangland crimes.

Nope. It is a crime to accept a bribe or other inducement in order to supress information you have that might lead to someone being convicted of a crime. But without the bribe, there's no crime in not speaking up.

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

i was in a house once when there was door to door. I answered their questins. i did not see anything of value to them. they asked if we had cctv. we didn't. but don't they have to make an application for cctv? They cannot just take the tape there and then?

If you're happy to give it to them, or to make a copy and give them a copy, they can accept it. They can't force you to give it to them without a warrant. (But if they have reason to believe that the tape will have evidence relevant to the crime they can get a warrant without great difficulty.)

RobbieMD

Denver Savory Piano wrote: »

what limited circumstances. I thought i was a crime to withold info, sure i heard of it in gangland crimes.

I don't know much about the radio case, only what i posted. my own question is hypothetical inspired by that

i was in a house once when there was door to door. I answered their questins. i did not see anything of value to them. they asked if we had cctv. we didn't. but don't they have to make an application for cctv? They cannot just take the tape there and then?

You’re correct there is a specific offence of withholding information, generally used in membership of proscribed organisation cases,
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/39/section/9/enacted/en/html#sec9

In Ireland we have a notion of policing with consent. It seems now that everyone is more concerned with their rights than with their responsibilities. Being a responsible citizen surely means that you would at least co-operate with a Garda investigation that involves going door to door. Generally door to door enquiries are only used in more serious investigations.

If you have evidence by way of a CCTV hard drive, a member of sergeant rank and above can obtain a warrant to search and seize it.

7znbd9xmoiupye

RobbieMD wrote: »

You’re correct there is a specific offence of withholding information, generally used in membership of proscribed organisation cases,
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/39/section/9/enacted/en/html#sec9

In Ireland we have a notion of policing with consent. It seems now that everyone is more concerned with their rights than with their responsibilities. Being a responsible citizen surely means that you would at least co-operate with a Garda investigation that involves going door to door. Generally door to door enquiries are only used in more serious investigations.

If you have evidence by way of a CCTV hard drive, a member of sergeant rank and above can obtain a warrant to search and seize it.

In Ireland we have a notion of policing with consent. It seems now that everyone is more concerned with their rights than with their responsibilities. Being a responsible citizen surely means that you would at least co-operate with a Garda investigation that involves going door to door

i have no problem with people knowing their rights some gardai abuse rights because people do not know them . i never said i would not co operate. in fact i said i had done so. the question about the camera was curious we did not have any cctv. data protection says they have to make a request . i was surprised by that actually

Peregrinus

RobbieMD wrote: »

You’re correct there is a specific offence of withholding information, generally used in membership of proscribed organisation cases,
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/39/section/9/enacted/en/html#sec9

This isn't a general "withholding information" offence. It only relates to withloding in formation about:

(a) a "serious offence" which is going to be committed - i.e. you have to have known abou the offence in advance; or

(b) where an "serious offence" has already been committed, and you have information not about the offence itself but specifically information which would lead to the arrest and conviction of the offender - i.e. this is aimed at those who shelter people on the run.

And I put "serious offence" in inverted commas because it's a defined term; it doesn't mean any old offence. It has to be an offence that could attract a sentence of 5 years or more, and it has to involve loss of life, serious physical injury, kidnapping or serious loss/damage to property. Sexua offences are not "serious offences".

So, yeah, this is basically aimed at the kind of offences that The Lads used to carry out, and at the people who provide a support network for those offenders.

Kevin3

The offence if witholding information was deemed unconstitutional by the High Court https://www.rte.ie/amp/922321/ although the state has appealed the case to the Supreme Court.

If the ruling is upheld by the Supreme Court the legislation is likely to be replaced by something less oppressive.