Feel patronised by a friend

LegacyUser

Hi,
So I am 37 years old and have had a lifelong friend (called Mary for purposes of this). We went to primary school together and went to same secondary school. Mary, by nature would be more bubbly/extrovert than me. As a child I was a lot more shy and quiet. Going to secondary school wasn't great for me, and I ended up being bullied (social exclusion variety), which has had a major effect on me. Mary was too busy making new friends and I felt she left me behind. Anyhow we drifted. However, in our early 20s we kinda became friends again. She was/is I suppose my best friend.

As I grew older with college working/living in new places, travelling etc, I have naturally become a lot less shy and quiet, and pretty much all of my friends and even acquaintances would not regard me as a "quiet" person. I know I definitely have some quiet/shy moments in certain situations, but I think I fall into the majority of people out there in that respect?!
Anyhow, myself and Mary have taken very different paths in life. she lived at home with her parents right through her 20s, whereas I have lived in various places, and have gone travelling etc. We have become different people with different interest, attitudes, outlooks etc. We did always stay good friends though.

Mary, I think, looks at me differently to most other people and it has started to really bug me over the last few years. I think she looks at me very differently to my other friends. She labels me a Timid and a quiet person, and would often say this out loud. She offers it as fact rather than just her opinion or perception. I am not even sure she realises it's a perception. A while back I was confiding in her that I went for some counselling sessions a few years ago (I was depressed). I never told her at the time, as I felt she wouldn't understand. When I told her about this later, her advice was simply "you need to speak more!". She speaks to me in a 'Mothering' kind of way, as a parent would speak to a small child to tell them to 'speak up, such and such can't hear you'. I was astounded, but didn't say anything back at the time. For me there were a few things going on there. 1. Mary thinks quiet people are not successful. 2. MAry think's I am too quiet, 3. She thinks her opinions of me are correct, and her opinions on personality types and how successful people should be are correct, and 4. that she's compelled to tell me this for my own good.

she has made other comments to me along the same lines over the years too... it's like she tries to mother me and advise me. but I feel nothing but demeaned and patronised. I'm 37 ffs! Just recently I was messaging to say I had a night out up the country with friends planned for the bank holiday weekend, and she wrote back to say how delighted she was. (I can imagine the tone that she might use if she said it to me over the phone). you'd think i had been ill for a year or two and house bound, and I finally was getting back on my feet and our and about again. I'd understand her delight then, but not when I'm out and about very day of the week!! i think she thinks I'm socially inept, timid, quiet and I need lots of mothering and encouragement to do basic things. Well, that's how it feels.

I'm really annoyed with myself for not speaking up, answering back, telling her that her comments make me feel bad, as though i'm like an immature child who needs help. Her tone of voice is like she's talking to a toddler sometimes. I think her intentions are well placed for sure, and she does like to act a goodie goodies among our group of friends, but she was zero awareness of how she comes across. I think if I were to try to speak to her about it, she'd take offence, and go into a sulk. So maybe this is why I don't assert myself around her for all this time, as I don't like confrontation or conflict.

It's my fault in a way, as I let her do this and let things slide. I also know if I call her out on it, she'll get a shock i.e. that I can speak up and assert myself. As I know her a long time, I also know there is a deep rooted stubbornness and she could get very difficult if I was to speak up. As sweet and genuine as she is, she's also not the type of person who likes being questioned, and she could take anything I might say as an attack. But should this be a reason to stay silent?

I'm conscious she has her heart in the right place, so am I being too sensitive about the patronising feelings??
but lately i'm wondering if our friendship is a real friendship, when 1 person gets to behave in a certain way and it goes unchecked, because the others person is too afraid to speak up and risk the friendship?
I feel like a bit of an eejit writing all this, but what are the thoughts/advice?

Big Bag of Chips

Are you happy in your life, in general? Or do you feel she has a point in some of the things she says?

If you were happy and confident in yourself you'd roll your eyes at her opinion of you and just brush it off. Maybe it's because you have history together that you let her affect you so much. Do you think you would be quite so affected if this was someone else saying these things?

She says you need to speak up more? Take her cue and speak up the next time she says something. You can do it without fight or confrontation. You can almost make a joke of it/her. You can say with a smile "Do you get that I'm quite happy with who I am? I have plenty of friends, a good job that I'm happy in. I have a social life that keeps me busy. What makes you think that I need to be something different?"

And then just look at her... And wait.

She will no doubt come up with some fabulous insight, but all you have to repeat is" You know I'm happy with who I am, don't you? ". You can even say it a little bit confused/condescending yourself as if you think she's missing the point completely.

Whenever she starts going on about all the places you're going wrong you can just point out to her that you're happy. Then you should ask her if she's happy.

LegacyUser

Fair point. I think i'm probably more sensitive to her comments due to the past. I suppose her comments tug at old insecurities. I think it is unfair of her though.
I am happy in myself these days though, and don't think she has a point. and none of my newer friends lets say would think I'm not talkative enough etc. I suppose I should not allow these comments to wobble my sense of security in myself.


i'm just going to have to cop on and start being more forward these comments are thrown at me.

yosser hughes

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Then you should ask her if she's happy.

This is what occurred to me. Is 'Mary' trying to make herself feel better by patronising you? How has her life worked out? Your's sounds like you it's worked out well and you seem like a well travelled, interesting,well rounded person.

Rubberchikken

from reading your post I'll be honest and say im not a big fan of Mary.
she sounds like she decided you were like you were when younger and that way you will stay.
you think she'd sulk if you asked her to stop speaking to you like she is and you're probably right.
this type of person doesnt take being corrected easily.
do you really want to remain friends with her? only you can decide that.

joeguevara

Is it a possibility that since she has lived at home with her family that all she has ever known is being mothered. She mightn’t see it as patronizing and maybe if it helped her in situations she might think it will help you.

Also, I don’t mean this in a bad way but a couple of things you have said in your post could come across as patronizing. You have grown as a person with living in different situations and travel. You have grown as a person but maybe she feels that she hasn’t and that is why she views you as the same person that you used to be.

If you want the friendship to continue you have to be honest. But try not to be blunt and although it has obviously hurt you she may be hurting too. Maybe she could offer advice in a way that doesn’t grate on you and maybe you could (if she wants) help her move out and try new things.

If that isn’t an option then sometimes we outgrow friendships and we hold onto things because we are scared of letting go. Hope it works out.

Xterminator

She labels me a Timid and a quiet person

I ended up being bullied (social exclusion variety), which has had a major effect on me ..... I was astounded, but didn't say anything back at the time. .... she has made other comments to me along the same lines over the years too ..... I'm really annoyed with myself for not speaking up, answering back ..... It's my fault in a way, as I let her do this and let things slide. .... she could get very difficult if I was to speak up.

Hi Op

no offense meant but to her you are a timid person. She isn't wrong, based on your own words. here's the thing this is becoming a big issue for you, yet you have never been assertive with her consistently.

That's not to say you cannot be outgoing etc, but that you have anticipated an issue if you do stand up for yourself with her, and shied away for the possibility of conflict.

you say her heart is in the right place, she means well, and she is a lifelong friend. We don't get too many of them. So whats there to lose by proving her wrong?

Either she will be delighted your finding your voice, or she wont, and the friendship will die away. It sounds like its not flourishing now anyway.
Perhaps you could benefit from an assertiveness course.

.......

Xterminator wrote: »

Perhaps you could benefit from an assertiveness course.

I have seen this advice given here from time to time - where might one find an assertiveness course?

Xterminator

a lot of places online, but its probably worth looking over the course outline to make sure it meets your expectations/needs.
i would personally lean toward doing it face to face, rather than online for maximum effect.

https://www.irishtimestraining.com/assertiveness-skills/

that one has a few testimonials.

.......

Xterminator wrote: »

a lot of places online, but its probably worth looking over the course outline to make sure it meets your expectations/needs.
i would personally lean toward doing it face to face, rather than online for maximum effect.

https://www.irishtimestraining.com/assertiveness-skills/

that one has a few testimonials.

Cheers - expensive!

wiggle16

I think Mary has a need to be needed. If that makes sense. You've done well in life and have had a much more rounded experience than her, and I might be wrong but I get the impession from your post that perhaps Mary hasn't got so far in life (or had a much more buttoned down life) and as Big Bag of Chips has said, is probably unhappy to some extent.

She may need to feel like you need her and that comes out as mammying and telling you that you're timid. She's saying that for her own benefit. In her head, you're timid and couldn't get by without her guidance and encouragement, and it makes her feel good that you need her and she's such a good friend to you. I do agree with you that her heart is in the right place and she probably doesn't realise she's doing it - that kind of mentality comes from insecurity at the end of the day.

As for how you deal with it, I agree she will probably go into a sulk if you say it. She'll see it as a rejection of her "help" and "kindness".

Every time she begins to explain things to you, or tells you how to act, just say "oh no Mary don't worry, I know that already" or "I'm fine thanks Mary" or "I'm speaking up just fine, thanks". Big Bag of Chips' advice about asking if she's happy is good too.

You could say it to her honestly but I think you run the risk of souring the friendship, she probably won't see things from your perspective. If you can't stand it you might bite the bullet and tell her directly and hope she comes around. She doesn't sound like the kind of person who will though.

You don't sound like a timid person. I think she has this in her head that you are and it makes her feel needed and so it's a boost for her. That doesn't make it any less frustrating though.

Katgurl

Op I know exactly how annoying this is. I have a Mary in my own life who met me when I was going through a fake-rebel teenage stage (my parents had just split). She does my head in constantly talking about how firey I am. I know the world has mainly viewed me as calm and kind for decades.

My mary is a bit stuck in life. I feel she puts me down to make herself feel needed. Also she loves telling people "well I've known katgurl thirty years, she's very firey..." most of my other friends have known me twenty years. It is very annoying.

It's her stuff. For me, I just roll my eyes and say something like "its not 1992, time to move on mary" and my friends all joke about it.

FitzElla

You have been friends with Mary since primary school, possibly 30 years or so? From your post you acknowledge how much you feel you have changed since secondary school, going from a shy quiet bullied person to someone who has traveled, lived in different places, developed new interests and from what you wrote sounds pretty happy with their life for the most part. You have moved on and grown up in other words and found your own way.

Mary on the other hand lived at home throughout her 20's and has gone on a different path. Has she moved on? Or more to the point, has your friendship moved on, or is it still stuck in the same dynamic as it was when you were school? I think she still sees you as the shy bullied girl and what you see as patronising, she probably feels like she is looking out for you. It probably annoys you so much because you wouldn't accept that in your "new" life from someone else, but you (as much as she is) are stuck playing out the same roles you had in the past.

You don't say much about where you both are in life - married, kids, etc. - where are your priorities now? How often do you see Mary and how close are you to her? Breaking out of a habit of 30 odd years is not always easy. You can either try and accept she will always be a bit patronising to you, but your years of friendship and shared memories outweigh that, or you can try and change your friendship to be more in line with how you feel you are today, but run the risk of it fizzling out.

LegacyUser

Hi, op here.
A lot of valid and interesting points made and some good advice, thank you.
I don't think Mary is all that insecure, although maybe I'm wrong. I think a long time ago, she took on a 'goodie goodie' type personality, very righteous and mammyish. And she probably thinks she is being kind. She kinda has tunnel vision and would be very fixed on her opinions and ideas. I think some of this is due to her being at home longer than most people.

She is now married near home with a baby. Whereas, I'm living a very different life, 'single in the city' type of life. It probably is inevitable that we've drifted over the past few years. I wouldn't turn to her now if I had a little blip because I feel she has too much of a simplistic view and I'd get patronised like I did when I confided in her over the counselling etc. Maybe we've just outgrown each other.
Maybe Mary does like to feel needed, I'm not sure about the psychology there...

I definitely need to be more assertive, and that shortcoming sits with me. I need to work on that. The weird thing is, is that I probably don't fully be myself around her, so maybe there is something about what a couple of you said (Fitzella especially). We may well slip into some old dynamics.. I'm really not sure why we do that, or how I let that happen?!? Grrrr.

Mary can be fun, but I do feel I have to be careful about what I say, even generally. For example, she's not the kind of person you can make fun out of. I Think if I joked about and took the pi*s over a trivial thing she'd get offended and sulk. So I suppose I just know broaching this 'patronising' topic, could end up a catastrophy. I fear it'd descend into a stalemate, she'd get very offended, possibly cry. I'd be labelled a baddie for upsetting poor Mary, and others in the group (if they knew) would think I am wrong. I'm a kind person, but of course I'm capable of unintentionally upsetting someone. So when do we let things go, and when do we speak up?!

This post probably sums up the next steps I think:

" your years of friendship and shared memories outweigh that, or you can try and change your friendship to be more in line with how you feel you are today, but run the risk of it fizzling out."

Up to me to decide. Thanks again.

lulu1

I think your making a mountain out of a molehill here. if she annoy's you so much why bother messaging her telling her about your night out when you knew how she would

If someone annoyed me so much I certainly wouldn't be telling them my every move

Mollyb60

I had a 'Mary' in my life too when I was younger. Childhood friends, I was basically her sidekick in life because I was quiet and shy. I went to college, she stayed at home. She came to live with me in my final year of college and just could not deal with how much my personality had changed. It was a tough year and at the end of it I realised that we were just too different with different life goals so I let the friendship fizzle out. I don't ever regret it. We had just changed as people and she wasn't willing to accept me as I was, she just wanted me to be mousy Molly forever.

The bottom line is do you feel like you get something out of the relationship? Are you supported by her? Do you have fun with her? Can you confide in her? Can you depend on her? If you're answering no to these questions then I think you can take your lead from that. A friendship has to be 2 sided. Tiptoeing around her because you don't want a confrontation isn't a friendship.

Anteayer

Sometimes friendships grow apart for a reason. Personally I would let that connection fade. It sounds rather toxic.

Olsky

Most of us have a Mary in our lives. Patronising pity is their calling card. They encourage us to open up and reveal our inner thoughts and insecurities and then use these against us. Looks like you have changed. She won't.