Wheel of Alignment turn turn turn tell us the lesson we should learn

Overheal

I’ll post the photo in 2 seconds but I pulled into a new dealership on my new used car; a few weeks ago I had the oil changed and the wheels aligned down the street, I came in here to swap out the 12V battery (special weird gel bastard that sits inside the cabin) and they said ‘BTW our scanners when you pull in check your alignment here are the results.’

Basically saying that it’s too far out of alignment, suggesting I should get it redone. Is this right? I don’t know how to read this hoping the forum motorheads will assist

Overheal

Can’t attach feckin attachments to the OP on mobile

Dravokivich

Why did they check the alignment? Surely you've to go out of your way to do that.

my3cents

At the very least you have to attach something to each wheel and then take readings. My local tyre guy charges €25 for that but if necessary that includes the adjustment.

At worst all that will happen is that you'll get uneven tyre wear on the front. As I said €25 for the check and the adjustment which is normally a good idea when you are replacing all your tyres.

Pops_20

Overheal wrote: »

‘BTW our scanners when you pull in check your alignment here are the results.’

Are you referring to the "scanners" in the second photo? They said that when they drive the car into the garage that they detect your wheel alignment, without putting the car on the ramp and measuring it properly?

Sounds like BS to me.

If it were true, those results are nothing to worry about. The FR camber is only slightly out of spec.

Neilw

Were there plates on the ground you drive over similar to the nct centre?
They detect alignment problems by measuring how far the plate is deflected as you drive over it.

Overheal

Pops_20 wrote: »

Are you referring to the "scanners" in the second photo? They said that when they drive the car into the garage that they detect your wheel alignment, without putting the car on the ramp and measuring it properly?

Sounds like BS to me.

If it were true, those results are nothing to worry about. The FR camber is only slightly out of spec.

The scanner reportedly works by taking around 80 photographs of the vehicle and then uses machine learning techniques to analyze the roll/behavior of the wheels. According to them, the vendor claims they are accurate to in 1/1000 of a degree; they stated when they tested the results against their alignment system in the back they were in agreement.

I haven’t read into it of course but it sounds plausible given what I know about machine learning.

my3cents

So how much are the garage going to charge to adjust the camber angle?

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

The scanner reportedly works by taking around 80 photographs of the vehicle and then uses machine learning techniques to analyze the roll/behavior of the wheels. According to them, the vendor claims they are accurate to in 1/1000 of a degree; they stated when they tested the results against their alignment system in the back they were in agreement.

I haven’t read into it of course but it sounds plausible given what I know about machine learning.

I have never heard before of that....normally, you have to request that a wheel alignment check be done, the car is put on a lift and different attachment's are fitted... the make, model, year etc. is programmed into the computer, and it does the rest..if it show's out of alignment, it can be adjusted at that point.

Toyotafanboi

We do an alignment check on every car that enters the workshop, as well as a VHC.

In a well set up workshop, with that process in mind, particularly in a main dealer, a quick alignment check should take no more than 5-6 minutes.

To an extent it's a sales driver as the alignment will be out of manufacturers spec on pretty much any car that crosses your path. You give the customer the printout with the poor alignment, quote for alignment and they can do as they wish. If they take you up on it, you sell an alignment, if they don't then you don't. By making the offer though you will sell far more alignments than if you didn't. Obviously it's done to drum up business, but the alignment on the cars is out of spec and you are bringing it back in, so the customer is getting maintenance for their money.

Then it opens other cans of worms in terms of worn tyres/ suspension and other work. Sometimes that's good, other times not so good. I think it's becoming a more popular practice though.

Would I bother getting it done? Personally, no, not unless I had a specific complaint.

jmreire

So in this setup, all you have to do is drive into the workshop, and as you enter, the alignment is automatically checked, and a report made? No fitting of sensor's etc?

Overheal

jmreire wrote: »

So in this setup, all you have to do is drive into the workshop, and as you enter, the alignment is automatically checked, and a report made? No fitting of sensor's etc?

Precisely. It’s optical.

It’s a Toyota dealership so I imagine their software is trained to Toyota models but it may not matter; machine learning software would be able to pick out the wheel geometry. Kinda the same way you can see boy racers on the highway who have their wheels stupidly cambered, software can just discern more minute deviations. 1/1000th of a degree would be mighty impressive though I’m sure he misspoke. The readout only showed to a tenth of a degree

They wanted over $100. It was a no for me because I just had it done a few weeks ago, elsewhere. So I guess a better question is in the span of less than a month should my wheels be this far out after an alignment service? I’m not familiar.

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

Precisely. It’s optical.

It’s a Toyota dealership so I imagine their software is trained to Toyota models but it may not matter; machine learning software would be able to pick out the wheel geometry. Kinda the same way you can see boy racers on the highway who have their wheels stupidly cambered, software can just discern more minute deviations. 1/1000th of a degree would be mighty impressive though I’m sure he misspoke. The readout only showed to a tenth of a degree

They wanted over $100. It was a no for me because I just had it done a few weeks ago, elsewhere. So I guess a better question is in the span of less than a month should my wheels be this far out after an alignment service? I’m not familiar.

That's a pretty amazing bit of technology, for sure. But that's hi-tec for you, so should not really be surprised, but it is the first time that I had heard about it. I got new tyres fitted a few weeks ago, and asked them to check the alignment as well, as the car was slightly drifting to the left. I was with him all the while as he did it, from placing the car on the lift, aligning it to suit measuring unit, and in a few mins he was able to pinpoint what was the cause of the drifting...it was the left hand rear suspension bottom arm ( wishbone ) needed adjustment...drove perfectly after wards. I was impressed. In your case, if every time you drive into this workshop, and it gives a printout, which shows if the alignment is ok or not, and you have the option to get it fixed or not, that would be a good way to monitor tyre wear etc. before it gets out of hand. But you mention there was a cost for this? I think that the original poster just drove in, and without even realizing that the alignment was being checked, it was done. And then he was presented with a print out showing what needed tom be done. I can understand the benefit of this to the Garage, in terms of generating work.

Toyotafanboi

The bigger question is, do you really think (or know) that the camber was in spec after the first job? A camber issue can be as a result of suspension wear and it may not be possible to adjust back within spec without replacement of parts.

I take it from your posts that you're not in Ireland but two common practises I've seen in tyre chains here when doing a four wheel alignment is the operator just adjusting the toe and not giving the owner a results sheet as they may see that the caster and camber is still out but telling them a four wheel alignment is done. Another popular one is to get one person to "pull" the geometry into spec and hold it there to achieve an in spec result, while the operator hits print and save that, then release the adjustment, this is usually done where the component wear is excessive and can't be adjusted back to spec.

If it were my car I'd leave it be once you've had no tyre extreme wear issues in the past.

Overheal

I have asked the original alignment shop and they had the same initial thought as me, that there is uneven wear on the front tires (Toyota said 2 and 4 32nds, rear 6+) and their service clerk seemed to think the machine would compensate for that, but I’m less sure of that depending on how even the wear is on a tire

jmreire

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The bigger question is, do you really think (or know) that the camber was in spec after the first job? A camber issue can be as a result of suspension wear and it may not be possible to adjust back within spec without replacement of parts.

I take it from your posts that you're not in Ireland but two common practises I've seen in tyre chains here when doing a four wheel alignment is the operator just adjusting the toe and not giving the owner a results sheet as they may see that the caster and camber is still out but telling them a four wheel alignment is done. Another popular one is to get one person to "pull" the geometry into spec and hold it there to achieve an in spec result, while the operator hits print and save that, then release the adjustment, this is usually done where the component wear is excessive and can't be adjusted back to spec.

If it were my car I'd leave it be once you've had no tyre extreme wear issues in the past.

And so would I...unnatural tyre wear or road handling will quickly let you know that there is something wrong...mine was pulling slightly to the left, so that was why I got the alignment done when the new tyre's were fitted,

Overheal

That’s a good point I shouldn’t wait to replace these tires should I >_>

Toyotafanboi

Post a pic of the front tyre treads on both front tyres?

Regardless, if the tyre looks anyway evenly worn I'd forget all about this tbh. Virtually every car on the road is technically out of spec somewhere.

jmreire

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Post a pic of the front tyre treads on both front tyres?

Regardless, if the tyre looks anyway evenly worn I'd forget all about this tbh. Virtually every car on the road is technically out of spec somewhere.

Out of spec.........just like the roads around here !!!:cool:

Overheal

Actually noticing on both my cars just aligned that they both drive straight with the wheel at 11:30... (((OCD intensifies)))

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

Actually noticing on both my cars just aligned that they both drive straight with the wheel at 11:30... (((OCD intensifies)))

At some stage the tracking was done on only one side so........lazy mechanic.:mad:

Pops_20

jmreire wrote: »

At some stage the tracking was done on only one side so........lazy mechanic.:mad:

It's more likely that the car was aligned with the steering wheel in the 11.30 position. There's a tool that keeps the steering wheel in a fixed position when the mechanic is under the car... sometimes the wheel isn't set dead straight.
The car still gets aligned correctly, but relative to the position of the steering wheel.

Overheal

I had a real awful alignment after a wreck one time. They gave it back to me with an empty gas tank (it was 2/3rd full, tank wasn’t involved) and the wheel driving straight at the 8 o clock position. Years ago. They got yelled tf out of it.

mgbgt1978

Overheal wrote: »

I’ll post the photo in 2 seconds but I pulled into a new dealership on my new used car; a few weeks ago I had the oil changed and the wheels aligned down the street, I came in here to swap out the 12V battery (special weird gel bastard that sits inside the cabin) and they said ‘BTW our scanners when you pull in check your alignment here are the results.’

Basically saying that it’s too far out of alignment, suggesting I should get it redone. Is this right? I don’t know how to read this hoping the forum motorheads will assist

Your first costly error was going to a Toyota Dealer to get the Prius 12v Battery replaced.
You can get a similarly sized Lead-Acid Battery in Halfords (for example) that has the smaller Terminals such as your's for around €65.

And before anyone jumps in with 'it must be a Gel Battery for safety reasons, etc.' there are plenty of other cars out there with a Lead Acid Battery fitted within the Cabin from new.
Two Prius's in this house have had the original 12v Battery replaced with Lead Acid Batteries without any issues whatsoever.


And as Toyotafanboi has said, the alignment report is simply an attempt at an upsell.

edit; As toyotafanboi has noted from your terminology you seem to be living abroad. So ignore the 'Halfords' reference. Any Auto parts shop (or even specialized Battery Shop) can supply a 12v Battery for a Prius for far less than a Main Dealer. priuschat.com will provide you with plenty more info.

Overheal

Eh, I’d be wary of that.
All the major parts stores are chains, and what I learned from hunting for a jeep blower motor this summer is they’re practically all the same company. None of them was gonna really want to sell me an off battery much less install one; which I’m sad about because they often always offer free battery labor. It’s new and I’m just gonna play by the Toyota way with that; really didn’t have time this week to be messing with it myself.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Post a pic of the front tyre treads on both front tyres?

Regardless, if the tyre looks anyway evenly worn I'd forget all about this tbh. Virtually every car on the road is technically out of spec somewhere.

Attached, the order should be, FR, FL, RL, RR