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Are Lottery Scratch Cards a scam?

  • 28-03-2019 12:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭ Worztron


    Hi.

    How are the scratch cards made - that is what stops the people who make them know the winning tickets?

    Also, is there any mechanism to prevent 99.9% of scratch cards sold in shops being duds?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."

    Tagged:


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭ skooterblue2


    You are only questioning now after over 35 years if it is a scam?

    My girlfriend has parents buying them for 6 year olds in her shop.
    A new generation of sheep getting addicted


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭ Worztron


    You are only questioning now after over 35 years if it is a scam?

    My girlfriend has parents buying them for 6 year olds in her shop.
    A new generation of sheep getting addicted

    But some folk do win. Recently there was a story of a couple winning 200K and payed off their mortgage.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,707 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    They aren't random you know?

    They are fixed to only have a certain percentage of winning tickets.

    And that percentage is VERY low.

    They are IMHO for stupid people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Brian Mealy Fabric


    There is a decent change of winning, but importantly a very low chance of winning anything significant.
    e.g. 1 from every 6 cards (on average) has a prize, but 98% of these prizes are very, very, very low.

    You also have to bear in mind the actual prizefund is the amount left over after profits and operating costs are taken away.
    Thus any slice of the pie/cake you may be hoping to win, is actually only a slice from half a cake, not a full 100% cake.

    In other words, these are nothing but an occasional novelty/entertainment type gift idea, not a fiscal solution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭ skooterblue2


    Worztron wrote: »
    But some folk do win. Recently there was a story of a couple winning 200K and payed off their mortgage.

    yes I worked for a company now gone that used to sub contract for the national lottery. I estimate (as can only be done with paper) that the jackpot on offer is 8 times that of what is taken in. That is supposing it is won and doesnt go to a roll over.

    The National lottery is a taxation on gullibility of the most vulnerable people in society. In times of hardship it creates gambling addiction were there may have been none.

    Then you get lads addicted and bookie own them and they start robbing from their families friends and employers.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭ skooterblue2


    NIMAN wrote: »
    They aren't random you know?

    They are fixed to only have a certain percentage of winning tickets.

    And that percentage is VERY low.

    They are IMHO for stupid people.

    The cheaper the ticket the lower the chance of you winning. I see it no different to any other drug, only it is run by the state. Its a taxation on stupidity. Its always the most vulnerable people buy them. You never see a bookie driving a banger. The game is loaded against you from the start.

    Then you see sad saps like Oisinn McConville and other sports stars getting hooked on gambling and making money on their "woe is me" stories


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,712 ✭✭✭ Rows Grower


    A friend of mine won 5 grand on a 1 euro scratch card about 6 months ago, it was a present from a grandchild.

    I know someone else who used to work in a kiosk in a large shopping center that basically sold scratch cards and cigarettes, one regular customer would never scratch the panels you are meant to but would just scratch the serial code and either give it back to be scanned and collect the winnings or leave it on the counter.

    The amount of people addicted to them is off the scale, mostly elderly too.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Brian Mealy Fabric


    The cheaper the ticket the lower the chance of you winning.

    Incorrect, some of the lowest priced cards might have the same 'ratio' e.g. 1 in 6, as the highest ones, the difference is the actual top prizes will be lower.

    Important to note the actual 'top tier' prizes may only be 1% of the prizefund, and the total available prizefund is only a percent (much less than 100%) of the total sales.
    I see it no different to any other drug, only it is run by the state. Its a taxation on stupidity. Its always the most vulnerable people buy them. You never see a bookie driving a banger. The game is loaded against you from the start..

    Many now are run by private companies, not states, and even Canadian pension fundsters. Important to note, these are not traditional 'bookies', these are fixed ratio events. Some bookies can and do close, as 'real-world events' carry higher risks for them if some (rare) punters have a combination of insight, knowledge and expertise.

    Agree the odds are against you with scratchies, and should always be avoided. Even lottos have a slight (very minor) advantage due to the LOLNs. Again best viewed as light entertainement/gifts only, and not fiscal solutions.
    Then you see sad saps like Oisinn McConville and other sports stars getting hooked on gambling and making money on their "woe is me" stories

    Some folks shouldn't drink, smoke, walk into donought shops, or bet etc, if their particular brain chemistry will lead to abnormal behaviour.

    A much, much bigger concern than these (retail) scratchies, would be all that 'non-real world' online mobile gaming nonsense stuff, slots, bingo, casinos etc. Saw x8 different tv ads for these within 1 hour the other day, which shows just how profitable it is for the operators.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭ jimmynokia


    There is now online scratch cards from the lotto which for me is a scam


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,810 ✭✭✭✭ jimmii


    It's only a scam if the published odds aren't the actual odds of winning. Otherwise it's just a tax on people who don't understand the system. For some people the entertainment value from the scratch card (even on a loser) exceeds the monetary value of purchasing the card. I can't imagine theres many where the utility>cost it I'm sure theres some.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭ skooterblue2


    Incorrect, some of the lowest priced cards might have the same 'ratio' e.g. 1 in 6, as the highest ones, the difference is the actual top prizes will be lower.

    My girlfriend sells them in a convenience store (she is the manager), she says the lower cost ones are the dead losses based on those scratched in front of her by real addicts.

    Last time I worked for a lotto subcontractor G-Tech were running the show in Ireland. I look as them as an agent for them collecting revenue for the government as rather than owning the whole game (not saying it isnt profitable for them either).

    This thread would really benefit from a professional psychologist looking in. Gambling is making its way into kids gaming with Forthnite and many other games. You can buy "loot boxes" and get a chance of an upgrade rather than earning it the old fashioned way. One ADHD kid I know went down to the "Pawn Shop" to trade in his PS4 for Forthnite points. They are using games to target a younger demographic and conditioning them. I have heard of one girl in Cork been institutionalized because she had gone 24 hours without eating drinking sleeping or going to the toilet.

    I knew there was something immediately wrong with the game when I heard it was given away for free.

    The "great" thing about online gaming is you can play it anywhere even at work or in the car etc etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭ Worztron


    Incorrect, some of the lowest priced cards might have the same 'ratio' e.g. 1 in 6, as the highest ones, the difference is the actual top prizes will be lower.

    Important to note the actual 'top tier' prizes may only be 1% of the prizefund, and the total available prizefund is only a percent (much less than 100%) of the total sales.



    Many now are run by private companies, not states, and even Canadian pension fundsters. Important to note, these are not traditional 'bookies', these are fixed ratio events. Some bookies can and do close, as 'real-world events' carry higher risks for them if some (rare) punters have a combination of insight, knowledge and expertise.

    Agree the odds are against you with scratchies, and should always be avoided. Even lottos have a slight (very minor) advantage due to the LOLNs. Again best viewed as light entertainement/gifts only, and not fiscal solutions.



    Some folks shouldn't drink, smoke, walk into donought shops, or bet etc, if their particular brain chemistry will lead to abnormal behaviour.

    A much, much bigger concern than these (retail) scratchies, would be all that 'non-real world' online mobile gaming nonsense stuff, slots, bingo, casinos etc. Saw x8 different tv ads for these within 1 hour the other day, which shows just how profitable it is for the operators.

    Hi Brian Mealy Fabric. What does 'LOLNs' mean?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,810 ✭✭✭✭ jimmii


    Worztron wrote: »
    Hi Accumulator. What does 'LOLNs' mean?

    I'd assume its law of large numbers given the topic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Brian Mealy Fabric


    Worztron wrote: »
    Hi Accumulator. What does 'LOLNs' mean?

    Yes, law of large data sets, flip an average coin 10,000 times and it wil average out close to 50:50, but in the first hundred throws it might well be 10:90 tails.

    To some extent it may also apply to lotteries, but not as strongly. perhaps only 0.5 to 5%. The Ire lotto for example is fairly even, over hundreds of draws.

    lsiJq6b.png

    (Removed the last two balls as 46+47 were recent additions, to increase the odds of winning up to 10,737,573/1).

    Even at this, would only ever consider pick 3, and max book% value (not regular ticket), and only under certain hot/cold/elastic conditions. E.g. 33 ball is cold with t-71, but 38 is hot and equally has t-32.

    The problem with any .random() or more 'virtual' event is that there is little substance to give even the slightest whiff of any potential edge.

    A bigger question is the theme of 'regulation'. But you only have to realise that the US market is now de-regulating, due directly to a $4bn black-market-tax-dollar loss. The ultimate solution might be somewhere on the middle ground.


  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭ jimjangles


    Don't buy National Lottery tickets anyone. It's a con. My mother had over 100 euro in prizes on the red All Cash golds and they wouldn't give her the prize money.They said it was over 90 days since the end of the game.They don't honor their prizes. It's a con. They wouldn't help me and blocked me on twitter. They don't deserve peoples money.
    Don't buy them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭ The Rooster


    Not sure how they get away with the 90 day rule, and people have literally lost millions over it, never mind €100. But it is well publicised and part of the Terms and Conditions, so there is clearly legally no comeback.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭ Kelly Limited Curb


    My girlfriend sells them in a convenience store (she is the manager), she says the lower cost ones are the dead losses based on those scratched in front of her by real addicts.

    Last time I worked for a lotto subcontractor G-Tech were running the show in Ireland. I look as them as an agent for them collecting revenue for the government as rather than owning the whole game (not saying it isnt profitable for them either).

    This thread would really benefit from a professional psychologist looking in. Gambling is making its way into kids gaming with Forthnite and many other games. You can buy "loot boxes" and get a chance of an upgrade rather than earning it the old fashioned way. One ADHD kid I know went down to the "Pawn Shop" to trade in his PS4 for Forthnite points. They are using games to target a younger demographic and conditioning them. I have heard of one girl in Cork been institutionalized because she had gone 24 hours without eating drinking sleeping or going to the toilet.

    I knew there was something immediately wrong with the game when I heard it was given away for free.

    The "great" thing about online gaming is you can play it anywhere even at work or in the car etc etc.

    Then how did he play the game without the console. I smell a BS story to generate faux outrage. Nice touch on the ADHD kid aswel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭ jimjangles


    Not sure how they get away with the 90 day rule, and people have literally lost millions over it, never mind €100. But it is well publicised and part of the Terms and Conditions, so there is clearly legally no comeback.

    Well the way people can get back at them is to boycott them and not buy the tickets anymore.
    That's what I'm trying to get people to do.
    They don't deserve peoples money.
    I used to buy Euromillions tickets.
    Now I won't be buying anymore of them.
    I won't buy anything that has anything to do with the greedy, ignorant parasitic company that the Irish National Lottery is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭ Ultimate Seduction


    NIMAN wrote: »
    They aren't random you know?

    They are fixed to only have a certain percentage of winning tickets.

    And that percentage is VERY low.

    They are IMHO for stupid people.

    That is really a bit harsh.

    If my few bits in the shop come to 19 euro id often just get an all cash instead of the euro back. Never won anything big but often get €2 or a free one. Hardly stupid, just a bit of fun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭ OhHiMark


    jimjangles wrote: »
    Well the way people can get back at them is to boycott them and not buy the tickets anymore.
    That's what I'm trying to get people to do.
    They don't deserve peoples money.
    I used to buy Euromillions tickets.
    Now I won't be buying anymore of them.
    I won't buy anything that has anything to do with the greedy, ignorant parasitic company that the Irish National Lottery is.

    It's clearly stated in the terms and conditions. What exactly did you expect?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭ jimjangles


    I don't give a hoot if it's in the terms and conditions it's not right and that doesn't make it right.
    If you want to be on the side of the big corporation conning people out of their winnings you can go ahead.
    I know what side I am on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭ Ultimate Seduction


    jimjangles wrote: »
    I don't give a hoot if it's in the terms and conditions it's not right and that doesn't make it right.
    If you want to be on the side of the big corporation conning people out of their winnings you can go ahead.
    I know what side I am on.

    There is no con. It's in the rules of the game, clearly printed on every ticket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭ jimjangles


    I don't care.
    It's not right.
    Who is going to read the small print on the back of the ticket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭ dartboardio


    Not a scam, just fools tax.

    I still buy them every so often, theres plenty of things in life that are stupid and meaningless, but i /we still do them for fun/distraction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭ jimjangles


    Well if you don't bring back the ticket within the correct amount of time you are being scammed pretty much.
    It's money for nothing.
    I advise people not to buy them because I believe what the National Lottery are doing is wrong.
    Just letting people know the very negative experience I have had with the national lottery and advise against buying them until they change their rules and accomodate people who have won money fairly and squarely on tickets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 Squatter


    jimjangles wrote: »
    I don't care.
    It's not right.
    Who is going to read the small print on the back of the ticket.

    It took many years of Michael O'Leary sneering before people started to read the Ts & Cs of a Ryanair Ticket, so it'll probably take generations before people bother to read the Ts & Cs of a low value lottery ticket!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,068 ✭✭✭ ceadaoin.


    Worztron wrote: »
    Hi.

    How are the scratch cards made - that is what stops the people who make them know the winning tickets?


    Pretty sure employees of the company and their families won't be allowed to play them. My husband works for a company that runs lotteries in various states and we can't do it. Well I mean, I guess we can if we want but we won't be getting paid out in the unlikely event that we win big.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭ OhHiMark


    jimjangles wrote: »
    Well if you don't bring back the ticket within the correct amount of time you are being scammed pretty much.
    It's money for nothing.
    I advise people not to buy them because I believe what the National Lottery are doing is wrong.
    Just letting people know the very negative experience I have had with the national lottery and advise against buying them until they change their rules and accomodate people who have won money fairly and squarely on tickets.

    You won money fairly and squarely. And then you didn't collect it fairly and squarely. And then the lotto kept the money fairly and squarely. Seems all above board to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    When the Lottery was first introduced it was described by the late Professor John Kelly TD and Government Minister as "a cynical Govern ment plan to extract money from the pathetic dreams and aspirations of the poor."


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  • Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭ carq


    Does a ‘free ticket’ count as a win in their 1/5.7 cards win a prize stats??


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