Is it Illegal

Howardharvey

Hi Everybody.New poster here but long time reader of the forum which is very informative.My question is,Is it illegal to record on a mobile device such as an iPhone in a public place footage of say calves being sold in a local mart?

_Brian

The mart is a private property rather than a public place.

You need to ask permission from the owners.

Also as there are often minors present there are added complications, they are not in a public place but rather a private premises so be very careful.

148multi

Howardharvey wrote: »

Hi Everybody.New poster here but long time reader of the forum which is very informative.My question is,Is it illegal to record on a mobile device such as an iPhone in a public place footage of say calves being sold in a local mart?

First issue is, mart is not a public place, even some places are deemed or considered a public place under certain laws, won't cover one for recording, second issue is consent, the mart may or may not give, are you going to get consent from each person captured or for their information. The farmers may have an expectation not to be recorded in the course of their business. The issue of minors would probably be the most serious. I have to ask why the question, it seems like everything is fair game for recording these days.

Albert Johnson

Howardharvey wrote: »

Hi Everybody.New poster here but long time reader of the forum which is very informative.My question is,Is it illegal to record on a mobile device such as an iPhone in a public place footage of say calves being sold in a local mart?

I can't comment on the legalities of such recordings but may I ask your intentions for any resulting material? The animal welfare and vegan brigade are becoming a sizeable problem for global agriculture and the number of involved individuals is increasing all the time. Marts are an integral part of Irish agriculture and it's difficult enough for them to operate at the present time without individuals recording material for some nefarious intentions. I also believe that farmers and mart staff should be allowed conduct there business in the same privacy as afforded to other industries. Perhaps you have an entirely different reasoning behind your query but the above is becoming more of a problem all the time.

Howardharvey

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I can't comment on the legalities of such recordings but may I ask your intentions for any resulting material? The animal welfare and vegan brigade are becoming a sizeable problem for global agriculture and the number of involved individuals is increasing all the time. Marts are an integral part of Irish agriculture and it's difficult enough for them to operate at the present time without individuals recording material for some nefarious intentions. I also believe that farmers and mart staff should be allowed conduct there business in the same privacy as afforded to other industries. Perhaps you have an entirely different reasoning behind your query but the above is becoming more of a problem all the time.

Im a dairy farmer myself.I was in my local mart on Monday checking out the prices of the calves.A relative of mine was questioning me on the poor prices that friesian bull calves were making,so whilst in the mart I innocently recording a couple of lots that were sold and said id send it onto him on WhatsApp.I was focused on the calves whilst recording.Later when I was looking back at the footage, I noticed two very irate and bothered men who were putting in the calves.They seemed very angry at been recorded.Thats what the whole question was about really.If id have known I wasn’t allowed to record I would have stopped straight away.

Albert Johnson

Howardharvey wrote: »

Im a dairy farmer myself.I was in my local mart on Monday checking out the prices of the calves.A relative of mine was questioning me on the poor prices that friesian bull calves were making,so whilst in the mart I innocently recording a couple of lots that were sold and said id send it onto him on WhatsApp.I was focused on the calves whilst recording.Later when I was looking back at the footage, I noticed two very irate and bothered men who were putting in the calves.They seemed very angry at been recorded.Thats what the whole question was about really.If id have known I wasn’t allowed to record I would have stopped straight away.

Thanks for clarifying my query regarding your intentions and welcome aboard. As I said earlier the animal welfare issue is becoming more of a problem all the time and the protocol for suck calves is particularly stringent regarding handling young calves. I understand that you weren't filming for such purposes but the staff or others don't necessarily know that fact and may therefore be afraid of what the footage will be used for. All it takes is some clever editing to make a situation look worse than it actually is and the do good brigade are up in arms. I work in our local mart myself and tbh I don't appreciate people filming when I'm doing something regardless of there intentions, I usually ask can I come and film them in there workplace and how would that be received.

Never wrestle with pigs

You often see shippers recording lots and sending them to clients to get a yes or no I presume. Suppose it depends on why you are recording.

older by the day

There alway tourists in the summer taking photos in my local mart. The local hotel has it as a place of interest. I fecking hate needless hitting of animals. Last month a lorry man was using an electric prod in my yard. First and last time

Albert Johnson

older by the day wrote: »

There alway tourists in the summer taking photos in my local mart. The local hotel has it as a place of interest. I fecking hate needless hitting of animals. Last month a lorry man was using an electric prod in my yard. First and last time

I don't condone excessive use of a plant either but it's still a necessary part of handling large numbers of stock imo. There's a substantial difference between handling your own few stock at home in a familiar environment to facing into a yard of several hundred strange cattle in an alien environment, add in time pressure and it's a whole different way of working. As regards the electric prodder I'm not against them if used correctly tbh. For big cattle especially bull's there far more effective than a plant, I'd rather see someone give a strong beast an odd jab of the prodder's than knock 7 shade's out of them with a plant.

_Brian

I’d urge caution using some of the colourful descriptions above.

Cattle are herded in the mart, mostly I see minimal force used which is appropriate. Marts are employing paddles etc in efforts to improve handling for everyone and animals too.

We wouldn’t want to give non farming folk the impression that abuse happens in the marts. It may have been a scene in the 70’s but that’s behind us now.

I’ve seem animals and farmers far more upset during some of the protest videos online where hundereds of “activists” invade an otherwise peaceful farm, much worse than our local mart any week.

893bet

I am laughing at the “filming of minors” comments.

It’s a mart. Not a swimming pool.

There is a pedo around every corner, apparently.

Dinzee Conlee

893bet wrote: »

I am laughing at the “filming of minors” comments.

It’s a mart. Not a swimming pool.

There is a pedo around every corner, apparently.

I dont go to marts, but I do have kids. And I would be very conscious of anyone trying to record them, no matter where the location.

It does come back to the intent of the recording.

Your post implies you thought of pedos - maybe its just simply they're a prick, and they are taking the video for bullying reasons...

alps

It is not illegal for people to take photos of your children in public places without your permission. There is no right to privacy that forbids people from taking a person's photograph whilst on public property. ... Taking photos or filming on private property without permission is illegal.

This debate will centre around if a mart is a public place..

Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.

Gawddawggonnit

_Brian wrote: »

I’d urge caution using some of the colourful descriptions above.

Cattle are herded in the mart, mostly I see minimal force used which is appropriate. Marts are employing paddles etc in efforts to improve handling for everyone and animals too.

We wouldn’t want to give non farming folk the impression that abuse happens in the marts. It may have been a scene in the 70’s but that’s behind us now.

I’ve seem animals and farmers far more upset during some of the protest videos online where hundereds of “activists” invade an otherwise peaceful farm, much worse than our local mart any week.

There’s a fella that grew up with that got a job as a drover in the local mart. He was always excellent and cool around animals and on his first day at the mart he was paired off with an experienced guy that would be hard on stock. After a while my buddy told him to lay off the plant. Told him again and again...eventually he took the plant off yer man and proceeded to belt lumps out of him...he got fired and barred for life from the mart!

Albert Johnson

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

There’s a fella that grew up with that got a job as a drover in the local mart. He was always excellent and cool around animals and on his first day at the mart he was paired off with an experienced guy that would be hard on stock. After a while my buddy told him to lay off the plant. Told him again and again...eventually he took the plant off yer man and proceeded to belt lumps out of him...he got fired and barred for life from the mart!

He was definitely more of an animal than a people person, it's hard to strike a balance. His intentions were noble but sadly that doesn't pay the bills.

7znbd9xmoiupye

alps wrote: »

It is not illegal for people to take photos of your children in public places without your permission. There is no right to privacy that forbids people from taking a person's photograph whilst on public property. ... Taking photos or filming on private property without permission is illegal.

This debate will centre around if a mart is a public place..

Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.

you could shoot from outside in a public place

_Brian

Arturo Early Hoagie wrote: »

you could shoot from outside in a public place

I don’t think so.
You can film wit goes on in a public space but what happens on a private property would need permission.
From your logic there One could film into people’s bedrooms from a public space outside, not that I’m into that sort of thing.

The pigeon man

You can film anywhere where there isn't a reason expectation of privacy, from a public place.

7znbd9xmoiupye

_Brian wrote: »

I don’t think so.
You can film wit goes on in a public space but what happens on a private property would need permission.
From your logic there One could film into people’s bedrooms from a public space outside, not that I’m into that sort of thing.

from your logic all that goes on in poivate space needs permission. not so
you can film into a private space from a public space but not into bedrooms or a reasonable expectation of privacy. by your logic you cannot stand on the road way and film what happens in a football field or car park. There would not be an expectation of privacy in mart. anyone passing can see it . Any reasonable person passing bedroom would not wish to see it or film it.

_Brian

Arturo Early Hoagie wrote: »

from your logic all that goes on in poivate space needs permission. not so
you can film into a private space from a public space but not into bedrooms or a reasonable expectation of privacy. by your logic you cannot stand on the road way and film what happens in a football field or car park. There would not be an expectation of privacy in mart. anyone passing can see it . Any reasonable person passing bedroom would not wish to see it or film it.

Ok I accept your point.

If the mart had signs up requesting no filming without consent, how would that work out ?

7znbd9xmoiupye

_Brian wrote: »

Ok I accept your point.

If the mart had signs up requesting no filming without consent, how would that work out ?

i don't know. they could stop you filming inside but not sure if it would affect one outside. outside if you are on public place i doubt they could stop you shooting in so long as you were not say shooting in toilet windows. iknow they are frosted anyway but just an example

Get a nikon p900 and you can shoot from a few miles away! Also if you are filming in a private place you have to stop if told but you do not have to hand over what is already shot to management

older by the day

Well I suppose in these days with iPhone's and modern technology, a person must behave in a way that will not incriminate onesself, wether at a Mart or a disco, big brother is watching

bogman_bass

Albert Johnson wrote: »

older by the day wrote: »

There alway tourists in the summer taking photos in my local mart. The local hotel has it as a place of interest. I fecking hate needless hitting of animals. Last month a lorry man was using an electric prod in my yard. First and last time

I don't condone excessive use of a plant either but it's still a necessary part of handling large numbers of stock imo. There's a substantial difference between handling your own few stock at home in a familiar environment to facing into a yard of several hundred strange cattle in an alien environment, add in time pressure and it's a whole different way of working. As regards the electric prodder I'm not against them if used correctly tbh. For big cattle especially bull's there far more effective than a plant, I'd rather see someone give a strong beast an odd jab of the prodder's than knock 7 shade's out of them with a plant.

Go watch a video of a mart in America. Bigger numbers, wilder cattle and all done with. A flag at the end of a stick. They don’t touch the cattle.