Chinese Electric Buses , make big dent in global oil demand.

Bigus

An awful pity TFI bought dirty diesels for the new fleet of Dublin buses.


https://electrek.co/2019/03/20/chinese-electric-buses-oil/
From the article below....

While electric cars are displacing global oil demand at increasing rates, new research shows electric buses are making a much bigger mark overall thus far.


Electric vehicles have displaced about 3 percent of total oil consumption growth since 2011, a larger share than ever before. And so far, more than three-quarters of that oil displacement has come from electric buses, Bloomberg reports.

The report estimates that “for every 1,000 electric buses on the road, 500 barrels of diesel are displaced each day.” The same number of battery-powered electric vehicles only displaces 15 barrels of oil a day, by comparison.

Most of this is occurring in China, Bloomberg notes. A report last year found that of about 385,000 electric buses in the world in 2017, about 99 percent of them were in China, with rapid growth still taking place. The city of Shenzhen alone announced in 2017 that it had completely electrified its fleet of 16,000 buses.

Bloomberg estimates that gas and diesel displacement will increase 96,000 barrels a day this year due to EVs, making the lost cumulative demand 352,000 barrels a day since 2011. But global oil demand is also on the rise, growing 12 million barrels a day over the same period.

Future estimates see a much larger impact, as EVs could displace 6.4 million barrels of demand each day by 2040.

Bus Plus

China is far and away the leader in electric buses, but that doesn’t mean other countries are sitting on the sidelines.

Delhi, India recently approved an order for 1,000 electric buses, according to a report from Mercom India. The Delhi government noted, “This is the largest such commitment so far by any Indian city and for any city outside of China.”

A number of American cities and universities have unveiled their electric bus fleets in recent years. And in 2017, 12 major global cities agreed to buy only all-electric buses starting in 2025.

Electrek’s Take

It makes sense that electric buses would have a greater overall effect on oil demand than EVs at this point. Buses run for most of the day, and ICE buses aren’t the most fuel-efficient vehicles, to say the least.

A move to e-buses is making a difference, and that’s before you consider the much needed environmental benefits: most of these buses run in urban areas, so they help to cut down on both air and noise pollution in cities. We hope more cities and regions across the world see what China is doing, and follow suit.

ted1

At least the crowned plaza is more dynamic than TFL

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/irishtechnews.ie/crowne-plaza-hotel-dublin-airport-orders-irelands-first-electric-bus-with-esb-providing-the-ev-charging-solution/amp/

Idbatterim

Interesting article. Another good point was about electric buses, Would it not be better to subsidize them more than electric cars, as you could have certain routes running nearly 24 hours a day and the buses are active most of the time , unlike cars ... also I think people who currently drive, would be far more likely to use or switch to electric buses. They aren’t noisy , loud, stinking and vibrating ...

Also could the bus depots roof not be covered in solar pv panels ?

Another valid point made under the comments section of that article, is that they can sell more ev cars , all well and good and they are certainly an improvement on ice. But they are still an inefficient use of space ...

bk

Bigus wrote: »

An awful pity TFI bought dirty diesels for the new fleet of Dublin buses.

What new fleet of buses?

The NTA replaces the Dublin City bus fleet at a steady pace of roughly 100 buses per year (out of about 1000). They have never replaced the whole fleet.

They have gotten rid of the worst offending dirtiest oldest polluting buses, with relatively modern and relatively clean Euro 6 engine buses. New buses they buy, push out the oldest ones.

A Euro 6 engine bus is less polluting then even an EV on a per passenger CO2 basis. Though obviously EV's beat them on NOX, etc., but they aren't as anywhere as bad as Diesel cars!! They actually do meet the NOX/PM, guidelines, unlike the VW's etc.

Good news though that from this year, the NTA is moving to Hybrid and EV buses. They have been busily running trials over the last few months.

One thing to keep in mind, all those Chinese EV buses are single deckers. Putting batteries in a single decker is relatively easy. Double Deckers are much harder. There have been some trials, but they don't seem to have been successful so far. Too many trade-offs on weight and passenger capacity.

I'm sure they will get EV double deckers eventually as battery tech matures. But it isn't there yet.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Interesting article. Another good point was about electric buses, Would it not be better to subsidize them more than electric cars, as you could have certain routes running nearly 24 hours a day and the buses are active most of the time , unlike cars ... also I think people who currently drive, would be far more likely to use or switch to electric buses. They aren’t noisy , loud, stinking and vibrating ...

Good idea, on subsidising a quicker move to EV buses. Though again, keep in mind we mostly use Double Deckers, which are a problem for EV's

BTW the modern Euro 6 engine buses really aren't noisy, loud, stinking or vibrating. They are pretty nice and quiet and no stink, I use them regularly and the quality of buses has vastly improved.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Also could the bus depots roof not be covered in solar pv panels ?

Well first of all, most of the depot space isn't roofed, just parking. Secondly most buses are out during the day. They need to be charged up at night.

_Brian

Last time I was on China I couldn’t get over the proliferation of electric scooters, passenger and wee commercial cart type scooters.

I remember bicycles everywhere and noisy smelly scooters buzzing up the streets, huge bicycle parks on behind centre streets with hundreds of bikes piled in.

But there was a huge swing to electric scooters, now, they are constantly ridden on the footpaths which being silent is a serious danger. But I saw very few petrol scooters and sadly a seriously deminished number of bicycles.

When they embrace something they do it with a drive and compulsion that staggers the mind.

unkel

_Brian wrote: »

Last time I was on China I couldn’t get over the proliferation of electric scooters, passenger and wee commercial cart type scooters.

My wife's nephew lives and works there. Bought himself a full size electric scooter brand new for $300. Range is fine for all his city traffic, commute, etc. All but the nastiest push bikes over here are more expensive than that.

Overheal

Clemson University has trialed Proterra EV buses a couple times for the routes that go between center of campus and parking; I don't believe they've pulled the trigger yet. I couldn't tell you what their conclusions have been. But, those buses run a straight 8 hour shift (switching drivers at some point), and they quite literally just do the same 2-3 mile loops around campus. CATbus does have EV busses on several routes in the area, but those don't run as frequently I don't think and probably rely on depot charging. They do make stop chargers but those are fast-charging which, of course, is going to potentially limit your battery lifespan. Probably is just the case Clemson doesn't want to spend the money on something that isn't Football or a fancy new building :rolleyes: to be fair, construction costs are way down in the current economy so half the zip code is a work site.

cgcsb

Won't be long before oil producing countries start to turn on eachother. Expect a few more Yemens in the future as oil demand drops. Lots of countries are setting deadlines for themselves to be free of oil. Use of plastics is also becoming a real issue. The thing to watch is the lithium industry. Lithium mines that produce the raw material for batteries are awful places, these need to be kept an eye on.

Overheal

cgcsb wrote: »

The thing to watch is the lithium industry. Lithium mines that produce the raw material for batteries are awful places, these need to be kept an eye on.

unkel

Overheal wrote: »

They do make stop chargers but those are fast-charging which, of course, is going to potentially limit your battery lifespan.

Not really in practical terms. If you cycle the battery nowhere close to 0% or 100% (that is the killer!), you can fast charge it several times every day and the battery would outlast the bus

cgcsb

unkel wrote: »

Not really in practical terms. If you cycle the battery nowhere close to 0% or 100% (that is the killer!), you can fast charge it several times every day and the battery would outlast the bus

I think this needs to be more widely publicised and it applies not only to cars but lots of battery operated things. If you keep the charge between 35% and 80% the lithium battery lasts a lifetime

Overheal

cgcsb wrote: »

I think this needs to be more widely publicised and it applies not only to cars but lots of battery operated things. If you keep the charge between 35% and 80% the lithium battery lasts a lifetime

well i mean, most cars keep it in that range anyway with smart controls, so 35% == 0% and 90% == 100%, increasing that as the battery ages to maintain the range for as long as feasible.

unkel

cgcsb wrote: »

I think this needs to be more widely publicised and it applies not only to cars but lots of battery operated things. If you keep the charge between 35% and 80% the lithium battery lasts a lifetime

Was reading only a few weeks ago on battery university that if you keep it between 25% and 75% the life expectancy is 50 years and it would still have 70% capacity after that (so fine for home or grid attached storage for another 50 years). This is in a moderate climate (like Ireland)



Pretty much exactly what you are saying