Back Boiler

Zelda247

I light the fire most evenings and I am wondering about the idea of getting a back boiler fitted in order to heat radiators, I wonder if it would save money in the long term?

agusta

Zelda247 wrote: »

I light the fire most evenings and I am wondering about the idea of getting a back boiler fitted in order to heat radiators, I wonder if it would save money in the long term?

A boiler stove would be a better job

antoinolachtnai

Compared to what? What is your other heat source?

The other radiators or hot water will not heat for 'free' because you have a fire set. Every unit of heat that is gained by the radiators in the other rooms is a unit lost from the room in which the fire is set.

There are a lot of practical problems with this. Firstly, solid fuel itself may be the same price or more expensive than fluid fuel like gas or oil. And obviously, it is a lot more labour to run a fire than run an oil or gas boiler.

Secondly, you need someone who is experienced and really knows what they are doing to do install a back boiler (or boiler stove) safely. Safety is the paramount concern. A runaway solid fuel setup is a major hazard, especially you have kids or old people in the house.

As a result, it's not a 'handy job'. It will be hard (but not impossible) to get a good tradesperson to undertake this work in the current economic conditions.

waffleman

A good stove with back boiler is 3 times as heat efficient as an open fire.

I don't get the previous posters points about solid fuel being just as expensive as oil and gas. Surely the whole point of getting a back boiler is to get the most out of the solid fuel you use and then reducing or completely removing the need for gas / oil to heat radiators and water. Op has stated they light the fire regularly at present anyway.

To answer your question it has saved me a lot of money and yes it does pay for itself in about 5 years. I got a Stanley Erin boiler stove installed. Best thing we ever did. I only thought I was heating my house before we got it. Open fire + oil never heated our house like the stove does. Also haven't had to buy oil since we got it.

antoinolachtnai

I don't get the previous posters points about solid fuel being just as expensive as oil and gas. Surely the whole point of getting a back boiler is to get the most out of the solid fuel you use and then reducing or completely removing the need for gas / oil to heat radiators and water. Op has stated they light the fire regularly at present anyway.

As I said if you heat another room using energy from the stove, then that heat is lost to the room the stove is in. If you want to heat six rooms, it is going to consume more fuel than if you only want to heat one room.

You can look at the prices of fuels per kWh on https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Domestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf . Page 2 gives an indication of the likely efficiency of an oil boiler, a condensing oil boiler and an open fire.

The stove will certainly give better efficiency than the open fire.

Maybe your oil boiler was just underpowered for your house?

How much have you spent on solid fuel over the five years?

If the OP wants to do it, do it certainly, but make sure there isn't an alternative project that wouldn't be a better use of the money.

bb12

i have a stove with a back boiler as well as oil heating and solar panels. i used the stove during the years when oil was expensive. however it never heated the house as well as the oil heating. plus the mess of cleaning it out. ash gets everywhere. as well as the smoke that sneaks out when you open to add more fuel. always leaves stains on the walls and ceilings. i like having it as a backup but for the last couple of years i've resorted to the oil only for heating.

waffleman

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

As I said if you heat another room using energy from the stove, then that heat is lost to the room the stove is in. If you want to heat six rooms, it is going to consume more fuel than if you only want to heat one room.

You can look at the prices of fuels per kWh on https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Domestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf . Page 2 gives an indication of the likely efficiency of an oil boiler, a condensing oil boiler and an open fire.

The stove will certainly give better efficiency than the open fire.

Maybe your oil boiler was just underpowered for your house?

How much have you spent on solid fuel over the five years?

If the OP wants to do it, do it certainly, but make sure there isn't an alternative project that wouldn't be a better use of the money.

Firstly your link states that coal is much cheaper than oil and gas per kWh. Page 2 states that an open fire is only 25% heat efficient, oil / gas is 60 to 70% heat efficient and that a back boiler stove is 75% heat efficient. Seems obvious to me what the best value for money is.

You keep saying if you heat other rooms it takes energy away from the room with the stove. I don't get that statement when comparing an open fire to a boiler stove. 75% of the heat from an open fire goes up the chimney. Surely it is better to "lose" that heat to your hot water tank and radiators in other rooms using the stove than to lose it up your chimney?

Also we had to turn off our radiators in the living room as the heat from the stove itself was more than enough for that room.

Maybe my oil burner was under powered. All I can say is to get the kind of heat we have now I had to have the oil on constantly. The Stanley Erin stove produces a lot of heat.

I use coal and turf in the stove. Maximum 300 euro per year for fuel + 40 euro for a chimney clean. Before I was using a coal open fire and oil for rads and water. Easily between 1500 and 2000 per year.

It cost me roughly 6000 to install including all labour and materials in 2012.

If there's a better value setup of course the OP should look at. Everyone's house is different I suppose but this is definitely the best value for mine.

antoinolachtnai

A condensing oil or gas boiler is more like 85 percent plus efficient as noted on page 2.

At the price you are paying you are heating the house with 35 bales of briquettes (or equivalent in turf) and 8 bags of coal. Fair play to you but it just doesn’t seem like a lot for a cold winter like 2017/18. Maybe you can get a better deal on the turf but that is not available to everyone.

There is also the cost of ash disposal if you have to send to landfill and pay by weight.

I am glad it works for you but it will not work like that for everybody.

_Brian

Having had both I would urge a boiler stove over a back boiler on an open fire.

I would ask though how good is your oil burner ?? Would the money be better spent fitting an improved more efficient oil burner.

We run a triple system here, cendencing oil burner, large back boiler stove and solar panels. Our insulation values would be very high, air tightness good, but not great.

waffleman

bb12 wrote: »

i have a stove with a back boiler as well as oil heating and solar panels. i used the stove during the years when oil was expensive. however it never heated the house as well as the oil heating. plus the mess of cleaning it out. ash gets everywhere. as well as the smoke that sneaks out when you open to add more fuel. always leaves stains on the walls and ceilings. i like having it as a backup but for the last couple of years i've resorted to the oil only for heating.

Can I ask what model of back boiler stove you have?

I find if I slowly open the door to make sure the draft gets into the stove no smoke escapes.

Also the stanley erin has a good ash tray with separate smaller door for removing ash. We use one of these to store ash before dumping:





It collects about a weeks worth before needing emptied.

_Brian

Smoking stove can just be down to stove design, my brother fitted a Stanley stove recently and it’s disappointing how much it smokes when the door is open. An internet search shows loads of people complaining about the same stove.

I’ve a large brosley stove and can burn with the doors wide open with no bother like an open fire.

bb12

waffleman wrote: »

Can I ask what model of back boiler stove you have?

I find if I slowly open the door to make sure the draft gets into the stove no smoke escapes.

Also the stanley erin has a good ash tray with separate smaller door for removing ash. We use one of these to store ash before dumping:





It collects about a weeks worth before needing emptied.

it's an Esse 350 GreenSwitch Multi-Fuel. yeah i can burn for several days before having to empty but it's still a dirty job.
i'll admit the stove burning on a cold stormy night in winter is very cosy but the oil is just so much easier, overall warmer and cleaner. my stove has candles sitting in it for the last year. but as i said before it's good to know its there as a backup.

waffleman

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A condensing oil or gas boiler is more like 85 percent plus efficient as noted on page 2.

At the price you are paying you are heating the house with 35 bales of briquettes (or equivalent in turf) and 8 bags of coal. Fair play to you but it just doesn’t seem like a lot for a cold winter like 2017/18. Maybe you can get a better deal on the turf but that is not available to everyone.

There is also the cost of ash disposal if you have to send to landfill and pay by weight.

I am glad it works for you but it will not work like that for everybody.

Ah I missed that stat on the condensing boiler. That might swing it towards oil / gas for some people for sure.

I can get 15 x 25kg of coal for 100 euro in Derry. That does me a year as I just use it to start the fire in the stove.

Then I fill a shed with turf from the bog for 200 euro.

But I guess that is all dependant on my location and access to a shed and large bunkers to hold the solid fuel at my back door. 20 minutes from the border to Derry and 5 minutes from the bog.

slystallone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109723477#Comment_109723477

What do you mean by a runaway solid fuel setup?

antoinolachtnai

If it starts heating water too fast because of a fault or a design flaw and the water boils. Unlike a gas or oil boiler you can’t just have the heat source turn off in response to high water temperature.