Restructering of payments; what exactly does it mean?

cj maxx

CAP payments are to be restructed in 2020 what does this mean for claiming bps etc if you have to lease the land out ?

wrangler

cjmc wrote: »

CAP payments are to be restructed in 2020 what does this mean for claiming bps etc if you have to lease the land out ?

It's looking like only active farmers are going to have subsidies, those leasing out their land will be unlikely to have entitlements,
No one know what way it's going to be but these are the indications

Buford T. Justice XIX

cjmc wrote: »

CAP payments are to be restructed in 2020 what does this mean for claiming bps etc if you have to lease the land out ?

There's a few things going on atm. Louth is having all their maps redigatised atm which may lead to gains and losses of land for claiming BPS. This will be rolled out across the whole country next year.


The structure of the next CAP isn't agreed yet but the one certainty is more convergence. After the last reform, the minimum BPS would have been moved up to 60% of the average BPS and the larger BPS claimants would have had cuts. This will continue in the next package with the minimum now being 75% of the average BPS so the larger claimants will be cut again to find the funds for this.


The big discussion in this reform is the proportion of payments that will be drawn from Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 budgets. Pillar 1 is the BPS and Pillar 2 are the other schemes, mostly environmental focused. Pillar 1 funding is EU funds only but Pillar 2 are partially funded from National funds and the proportion of government funding for each scheme can be decided by each government for the large part. So richer countries can fund higher levels compensation for their farmers. We won't be coming in for much extra from this, usually the bare minimum is what's allocated by our lot.


There's not much decided as yet but the main thrust will be along those lines.

Dunedin

Is there any possibility that off farm incomes will be considered against BPS ????

Dinzee Conlee

Dunedin wrote: »

Is there any possibility that off farm incomes will be considered against BPS ????

I doubt it...

When the idea of having employee wages set against any CAP limit, the dept immediately said it would be too much of a burden to have to manage individual p60s etc...
I would imagine they would have the same level of interest in managing the P60 of everyone who submits a BFP application...

cj maxx

wrangler wrote: »

It's looking like only active farmers are going to have subsidies, those leasing out their land will be unlikely to have entitlements,
No one know what way it's going to be but these are the indications

Yeah . So you have to either sell entitlements on the market + and 33% tax or to the leasee at a knock down

Limestone Cowboy

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

There's a few things going on atm. Louth is having all their maps redigatised atm which may lead to gains and losses of land for claiming BPS. This will be rolled out across the whole country next year.


The structure of the next CAP isn't agreed yet but the one certainty is more convergence. After the last reform, the minimum BPS would have been moved up to 60% of the average BPS and the larger BPS claimants would have had cuts. This will continue in the next package with the minimum now being 75% of the average BPS so the larger claimants will be cut again to find the funds for this.


The big discussion in this reform is the proportion of payments that will be drawn from Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 budgets. Pillar 1 is the BPS and Pillar 2 are the other schemes, mostly environmental focused. Pillar 1 funding is EU funds only but Pillar 2 are partially funded from National funds and the proportion of government funding for each scheme can be decided by each government for the large part. So richer countries can fund higher levels compensation for their farmers. We won't be coming in for much extra from this, usually the bare minimum is what's allocated by our lot.


There's not much decided as yet but the main thrust will be along those lines.

Is the re-digitizing not going on country wide. I know the girlfriend is a planner and they have got the world over over claims the past few weeks. Got one myself today for 2.2ha

wrangler

cjmc wrote: »

Yeah . So you have to either sell entitlements on the market + and 33% tax or to the leasee at a knock down

That's the way it was the last time, but this time could be totally different

Buford T. Justice XIX

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Is the re-digitizing not going on country wide. I know the girlfriend is a planner and they have got the world over over claims the past few weeks. Got one myself today for 2.2ha

The reports I saw says it's starting in Louth but will be across the whole country next year and Louth is the training ground, more or less, for the new system.

arctictree

What exactly is an 'active farmer? Is this based on your income or activity?

wrangler

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Is the re-digitizing not going on country wide. I know the girlfriend is a planner and they have got the world over over claims the past few weeks. Got one myself today for 2.2ha

It was serious the last time it was checked, I wonder will they try to go back to the start like they did before, That's still going on.
2.2 ha is serious unless of course you have thousands of hectares.

Limestone Cowboy

wrangler wrote: »

It was serious the last time it was checked, I wonder will they try to go back to the start like they did before, That's still going on.
2.2 ha is serious unless of course you have thousands of hectares.

With the nature of the ground around here it's very hard to judge. I have a good few alright, they put up one plot by 3.6ha and took the 2.2 off a different one but I could still be fined for last year apparently. She said the had one with a 21ha overclaim and another with 13ha. The one with the 21ha had a full area ground inspection 2 years ago and 3 different department officials had agreed on the area.

Birdnuts

arctictree wrote: »

What exactly is an 'active farmer? Is this based on your income or activity?

Good question - I suspect the Department, cheered on by the the usual suspects will come up with a definition that again puts the boot into the small man in more marginal parts of the country. Especially if large operators on prime land see their payments capped at an upper limit - I suspect the plan will be to empty Pillar 2 away from smaller family farms in marginal areas to compensate any larger more intensive operators that were getting big money under the previous CAP

Mortelaro

An active farmer is simply one that's not leasing out their land I would have thought

Water John

Also no more P60s, not sure what replaces it.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Just saw that MEPs have voted to have full convergence in 2027 so all entitlements will be €185/ha and €266/ha with greening. They also voted for an optional reduction scheme similar to the recent milk reduction one to be made available in future.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/meps-vote-in-favour-of-hogan-s-more-flexible-cap-453041

kevthegaff

I suspect land prices will reduce a little bit as high entitlements can't be stacked onto rented land as they will be capped

Buford T. Justice XIX

And the new level for Nitrates derivation looks like 130kg N/ha so an extra 20k farmers could come into the scheme soon.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/tougher-spray-and-stocking-rate-rules-451497

Sacrolyte

If you had 10 hectares and 10 entitlements after the last round of cap and you were now farming 20 hectares presently with 10 entitlements would you get extra entitlements in the next cap to reflect your larger area.