Anybody have a Pan European ST1100?

johnml

Hi folks,

I'm very interested in purchasing a Pan European 1100, however I've quite short legs!! Would any owners on here be willing to allow me to sit on their bike before I begin looking? Dublin or Midlands area

Cheers!

Esel

Don't they have a death-wobble problem? (maybe not recent models?)

johnml

Esel wrote: »

Don't they have a death-wobble problem? (maybe not recent models?)

I believe it was actually the later 1300cc model that had that issue

Esel

johnml wrote: »

I believe it was actually the later 1300cc model that had that issue

I heard about it from a UK police accident investigator. They withdrew them all from service as a result afaik. I don't know what model was involved though.

Philipx

The high speed weave was the 1300. Topbox on 110mph on the button the front would go light and the bike would start to shimmy. Back off a bit & all good again.

No topbox, no issues whatsoever.

If you are considering a 1100 make sure its ABS.

Check full length of exhaust, if there's a full stainless (usually Motad) front to back happy days; if not check every inch - prone to rot & expensive to replace.

The biggest issue with the ST1100 stems from the swingarm, which rots from the inside out. Look underneath it for signs of rust or chipped paint.

Also enquire about the alternator, known to go around the 60-70k miles; big job to replace.

I wouldn't worry unduly about a high miler if it has a good service history.

HTH

johnml

Philipx wrote: »

The high speed weave was the 1300. Topbox on 110mph on the button the front would go light and the bike would start to shimmy. Back off a bit & all good again.

No topbox, no issues whatsoever.

If you are considering a 1100 make sure its ABS.

Check full length of exhaust, if there's a full stainless (usually Motad) front to back happy days; if not check every inch - prone to rot & expensive to replace.

The biggest issue with the ST1100 stems from the swingarm, which rots from the inside out. Look underneath it for signs of rust or chipped paint.

Also enquire about the alternator, known to go around the 60-70k miles; big job to replace.

I wouldn't worry unduly about a high miler if it has a good service history.

HTH

Thank you for that Philipx. I will keep what you've said in mind when I'm looking.

It is the 1100 model I'm interested in. Just need to try one out for size first as I've only had cruisers so far!!

ayux4rj6zql2ph

johnml wrote: »

I believe it was actually the later 1300cc model that had that issue

This would answer why a Cork dealer has a 2008 model sitting in their showroom for many months now with a retail price of €8790.

listermint

Brysen Lemon Madwoman wrote: »

This would answer why a Cork dealer has a 2008 model sitting in their showroom for many months now with a retail price of €8790.

It's still and eleven year old motorcycle. Sometimes I really don't get pricing.

Philipx

The 1300 is a whole generation ahead of the 1100; having owned both over a number of years I would definitely go for the 1300.

The 1100 is a very old design now, it's a heavy old girl and even with ABS the brakes are quite frankly ****e

The 1300 is also dated by today's standard of touring bike, but it is still way ahead of the 1100. It's lighter; more importantly it feels way lighter & manoeuvrable - and the brakes work!

There isn't the same quality feel to the bodywork though, panniers are markedly flimsy compared to the 1100.

The 1300 comes with stainless exhaust system as standard, but weirdly the clamps are all mild steel so rust badly. Previous owner will most likely have replaced them with SS.

Check that the power screen operates smoothly, the worm gear wears. New motor is expensive, but can be got second hand.

All in all, I would try to stretch to the 1300 if you can.

Quick example Around €3800 plus €164 Vrt.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

listermint wrote: »

It's still and eleven year old motorcycle. Sometimes I really don't get pricing.

I agree, it seems alot of money for the year. Is there much haggling with motorcycle dealers in the same way as cars?

MotoTourist

HI
I had two of these. One was standard and one was lowered using an aftermarket shorter shock.

My two cents on height related matters.

The 1100 is a great bike for the right money. Yes it's heavy but most tourers are. You need to be able get one foot flat on the ground. 1300s are often overpriced and suffered electrical gremlins.
The 1100 screen is too short for 5'9 or taller, perfect if you are shorter.
The seat can be lowered by getting a scooped out lower foam version.
Rear suspension lowering is an option but the front needs dropping the same amount to preserve the handling. (ie let the forks slip up a bit in the yokes)
Rear suspension lowering changes the effective angle of the side stand.
Lowering the rear can be achieved by fitting a lower profile tyre. (160 i think)

I can point you to a 2000 model near Bristol, UK, with 28k miles, topbox and comfort seat in VGC for under 2000euro not inc transportation and VRT. (not mine, just happen to have seen it).

johnml

Thank you all for your replies. Having considered what you've said, I've decided to hold off on the ST1100 for now. I'm going to have a look at the ST1300 and FJR1300 before I make a decision

MotoTourist

I have had an fjr1300 also.
Stunning machine, ballistic power.
On the heavy side and quite a tall bike iirc.
Electric screen is the highlight of the weather protection, but overall not as good weather protection as the Pan for obvious reasons.
Out of the the 1100, 1300 and FJR, I'd go FJR.

johnml

MotoTourist wrote: »

I have had an fjr1300 also.
Stunning machine, ballistic power.
On the heavy side and quite a tall bike iirc.
Electric screen is the highlight of the weather protection, but overall not as good weather protection as the Pan for obvious reasons.
Out of the the 1100, 1300 and FJR, I'd go FJR.

Thanks for your input MotoTourist. I looked at an FJR over the weekend and found its height and weight far more manageable than the ST1100. However, yesterday I came across a BMW 1150rt which seemed to fit like a glove. Perfect height and was easy for me to maneuver. I find it an attractive looking bike too with plenty of luggage space. The dealer has to do a job on it before I go back for a test ride.

Any experience with these?

BaronVon

Have the 1200RT's in work, and they're a great all rounder. Great weather protection, and the seat can be lowered by 20mm

galwaytt

I have (some experience of all 3)

ST1100 - Great engine, but swing arms prone to rot, and hard to get 2nd hand replacements. Exhausts on examples would be at life's end now, so if not done, would be an expense. You have to remember they're all getting on in years now, with the youngest being 17 yrs and oldest 29....things like alternators etc would be teetering now. Not cheap to run, and is fond of petrol & tyres. Apart from that they're very heavy, tall, and frankly, ride like a 30yr old bike. It is what it is.

FJR1300 - Several colleagues have them, and I've had the opportunity to ride several, including the automatic one. Very smooth, refined, agile, powerful. In many ways, a 'successor' to the ST1100 choice-wise, for many. Sensitive to tyres and suspension setup, and if you go the extra mile and get the suspension 'recalibrated' it's a cracking bike. Around long enough now too for prices to be reasonable.

RT1100 /RT1150 - I've owned a good few of these, and the only reason I bought them is...........they stopped making the K1100LT before it. Suspension and brake wise it is superlative. The engine you'll either love or hate it, I chose to live with it. Being a BMW it has it's foibles, the first and most obvious is the ABS/Electronic brake system. They do give trouble, and no-one will fork out 1000's to fix it, so it's common to find these bikes with the ABS/Servo removed/bypassed completely, so I wouldn't let it put you off, but just be aware ( see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLrn45PJD_c) Compared to it's immediate predecessor the RT1100 it has better lights too. The RT1100 has a more conventional, simpler and reliable, braking system. At this age you might need to check the clutch, which, tbh is a big €€€€ job to do -involves splitting the bike, essentially............rear paralever/final drive units need looking for wear/play too, although the 1150 seems to suffer more in my experience. Other than that it's a lovely bike to ride, and compared to the 4-cylinders, disguises it's weight well. Light on juice, reasonable on tyres, and can't say that in all the years I had them, ever had an electrical malady (apart from the electronic braking system that is...which is electrically operated...). Like so many modern bikes, needs a battery in good condition (and I'd recommend fitting an Odyssey one) and that will cure that. If push came to shove, and you came across a good RT1100, it's nigh-on identical to ride, and it's a simpler bike, just add good spot lights to it (which I'd do on any bike now anyway), and you'd be on to a winner as it'd be cheaper. Either of the RT's are better than the ST or FJR for weather protection, fairing-wise, and imho, has the tidiest luggage system.

Of all the above, there are no 'bad' ones, but the FJR is the most modern, followed by the RT's, then the ST. For me I've got so used to riding big twin bikes now that I find any 4-cylinder a bit buzzy and frenetic. YMMV and all that.

That's all I can think of tbh.

johnml

Thank you Galwaytt for the informative response. There's quite a bit of information to digest there!
I looked at another 1150rt today and continue to experience difficulty getting my two feet down. I'm researching options to lower the bike / seat at the moment. Meanwhile, I wonder should I stick to cruisers and just get a bigger one than the one I have, one that would be more suitable for traveling to the continent on.

I gather from other threads that you have cruiser experience too? Any thoughts on my first world problem?!?

IrishGrimReaper

You could use this site to give you an idea on which bikes you'll be able to flat foot. You can enter your height and inseam and it has most bikes on it. There's a setting for "put feet on ground".

http://cycle-ergo.com/

galwaytt

johnml wrote: »

Thank you Galwaytt for the informative response. There's quite a bit of information to digest there!
I looked at another 1150rt today and continue to experience difficulty getting my two feet down. I'm researching options to lower the bike / seat at the moment. Meanwhile, I wonder should I stick to cruisers and just get a bigger one than the one I have, one that would be more suitable for traveling to the continent on.

I gather from other threads that you have cruiser experience too? Any thoughts on my first world problem?!?

My main ride up 'til very recently is a Harley, which I still have and love to bits. I bought it.......god, 12 years ago, after (and I kid you not...), 15 years of BeeEmms (of all types: 1/2/3 & 4 cylinder !!). I assumed I'd keep the Harley 2, max 3 years. 12+years later, all the others have come & gone... and it's still here. I don't 'mind' it, it's not a garage queen, and up til last year, used every winter too. When I got it first I thought it a behemoth, and at 350kg+, it's not light. An RT is a mere lightweight in comparison. And yes, I dropped it more than once....I even got a call at work one day from the SO that she knocked it over trying to move it in the garage one day and couldn't get it back up and I had to go home and help as the alarm was going bonkers.

A few months ago, more for pig-iron than anything else, and due to a niggle with my left hand, I wanted an automatic, and bought an Africa Twin DCT. A more different bike you can't imagine. And tall. So very tall.

But, put it this way: the issue I've learned over the years isn't the bike: it's the riders.....or to be more accurate, the training of riders. Before I bought my first RT, back in...........er........1998 ?....I took one for test ride, in Holland (they wouldn't give one here at the time, and I happened to be there on a holiday and they gave me a span new one with no issue at all to try...). Coming from a K1100LT at the time, it was a revelation, especially the comfort and brakes. On the test ride, I pulled in a small road and adjusted the seat to lowest position, and got the 5'2" SO to try it - and she did.

The singles biggest issue is confidence and training - after that, the size and weight of the bike doesn't matter. And I don't mean IBT or RoSPA or road training, I mean low-speed skills: stuff you need below 15mph. That's where most people drop their bikes - not out on the open road.

I've done a couple of courses with different people, and the difference it made is incredible.

Drop me a PM if you want more info, as I don't want to clog up the post too much.