Run Fatty Run!!

fruitbats

Hi, I’m looking for some Help from the wealth of knowledge that’s on Boards.

I’ve read a lot of the sub 3 hours support thread (over 200 pages of its 10 years) and also a lot of threads but I’ve never seen much on weight. I’m 5ft 10 man and I’m weighing in at 154lbs. I’m mediocre(35 mins 10k and 2:53 Marathon) at this running carry on. I’m looking for some advice on the weight? What weight is my race weight? It seems to be a running taboo, but i could be wrong ( and its been discussed to death sometime else)
I don’t want to limit this to just men’s weight but also women’s race weights for various heights.

Thanks so much for the help Folks!!!

spc78

Don't know where I found this formula years ago, but I find it a decent rule of thumb:

= 1902 + (19.5 * BMI) + (0.1 * AGE) - 2.43 * Weekly KM

gives your expected 10k time in seconds.

You've a BMI of 22, if you're say 35 & run 80km a week then a 35min 10k is in line with expectations. You should be able to convert that into a faster marathon time than 2:53 but if you can't its either mileage is too low or training is incorrectly focussed. If you can 'beat' the formulas predicted 10k time on lower mileage, generally speaking you're more speed than endurance so you're unlikely to achieve a comparable marathon time unless you up the mileage.

On weight, obviously lots of calculators would say a BMI of 19 would be what to aim for as a long distance runner - you'd need to lose 20lbs to get to that BMI. Typical 'how faster do I run per pound lost' calculators would say you'd gain 2 sec / mile / lb lost giving 4min time gain over 10k but I think they grossly overestimate the gains. The calculator above would only give a 1min 10k time decrease for 20lb lost which I think is more appropriate. Stephen Scullion is a 'heavier' long distance runner and he has not observed much of a time gain after losing a significant amount of weight.

HelenAnne

You could try this calculator:

https://runbundle.com/tools/stillman-weight-calculator

and Matt Fitzgerald's book has some good info too:

http://racingweight.com/

walshb

154 lbs is trim enough...

For best shape you would ideally need to be a healthy toned 130-140 lbs...

Depends on your frame and the distance...

fruitbats

spc78 wrote: »

Don't know where I found this formula years ago, but I find it a decent rule of thumb:

= 1902 + (19.5 * BMI) + (0.1 * AGE) - 2.43 * Weekly KM

gives your expected 10k time in seconds.

You've a BMI of 22, if you're say 35 & run 80km a week then a 35min 10k is in line with expectations. You should be able to convert that into a faster marathon time than 2:53 but if you can't its either mileage is too low or training is incorrectly focussed. If you can 'beat' the formulas predicted 10k time on lower mileage, generally speaking you're more speed than endurance so you're unlikely to achieve a comparable marathon time unless you up the mileage.

On weight, obviously lots of calculators would say a BMI of 19 would be what to aim for as a long distance runner - you'd need to lose 20lbs to get to that BMI. Typical 'how faster do I run per pound lost' calculators would say you'd gain 2 sec / mile / lb lost giving 4min time gain over 10k but I think they grossly overestimate the gains. The calculator above would only give a 1min 10k time decrease for 20lb lost which I think is more appropriate. Stephen Scullion is a 'heavier' long distance runner and he has not observed much of a time gain after losing a significant amount of weight.

Thanks!! This has given me a lot to think about over the last few months. Unfortunately running took a back seat for a few months and I put on too much extra weight, so I was up to 11st 10lbs. You were spot on with this post, I'm actually built for the short stuff rather than Distance. I'm now back to 11st 0lbs and I plan to get my weight down to 10st 10lbs ( so another 4 lbs) before DCM. I'm hoping this will give me so sort of improvement.

fruitbats

HelenAnne wrote: »

You could try this calculator:

https://runbundle.com/tools/stillman-weight-calculator

and Matt Fitzgerald's book has some good info too:

http://racingweight.com/

thanks again, these calculators caused me to take a long look at what I am trying to accomplish, I'm basically a Ferrari Engine in a tractors body. Until I used these calculators, I had no idea how grossly overweight I was for marathon running. As I said above, I'm looking to remedy so of this to see what benefit I can get from it.

Using the Stillman Model, I'm basically between Sprinter and a Hurdler, I'm 12lbs off being even a middle distance runner and 17 lbs of Distance runner . I'd be more than happy to be making it down to the Middle distance weight but baby steps........ Either way I've so serious work ahead of me.

ultrapercy

fruitbats wrote: »

thanks again, these calculators caused me to take a long look at what I am trying to accomplish, I'm basically a Ferrari Engine in a tractors body. Until I used these calculators, I had no idea how grossly overweight I was for marathon running. As I said above, I'm looking to remedy so of this to see what benefit I can get from it.

Using the Stillman Model, I'm basically between Sprinter and a Hurdler, I'm 12lbs off being even a middle distance runner and 17 lbs of Distance runner . I'd be more than happy to be making it down to the Middle distance weight but baby steps........ Either way I've so serious work ahead of me.

I have always ran at around 158lb. Im 5.10 also. I feel this is too heavy but at under 10% body fat I find it hard to lose weight and also because Im a greeder fecker. I suppose it would mean dropping some muscle which I havent much of anyway. For Dublin last year I jot to 153 and ran a pb by a minute but it was a struggle.

HelenAnne

fruitbats wrote: »

thanks again, these calculators caused me to take a long look at what I am trying to accomplish, I'm basically a Ferrari Engine in a tractors body. Until I used these calculators, I had no idea how grossly overweight I was for marathon running. As I said above, I'm looking to remedy so of this to see what benefit I can get from it.

Using the Stillman Model, I'm basically between Sprinter and a Hurdler, I'm 12lbs off being even a middle distance runner and 17 lbs of Distance runner . I'd be more than happy to be making it down to the Middle distance weight but baby steps........ Either way I've so serious work ahead of me.

I hope they didn’t make you take a long hard look at considering any dangerous weight loss plans or worrying excessively about your weight ... I only linked to them because they’re handy calculators that do the work of the algorithm for you, not because I think everyone should be that light.
you sound like you’re already quite trim.

I also got quite anxious looking at them - I only need to drop a pound or two to get to what Matt Fitzgerald’s book considers my racing weight, but I’d need to drop 7kg to get to the Stillman long distance weight. Dropping 7kg would probably be right for me if I was a full-time runner, but as a mid-40s recreational-runner woman with a full time job and a few other hobbies, it would take too much discipline & cross training.
Look at your life as a whole - if you can lose a few pounds healthily without running yourself into the ground, great, but don’t risk stress fractures & a miserable relationship with food to shave a few minutes off your marathon time!

(Ps that sounds very bossy - it’s not just aimed at you, it’s more for any runners who are tempted to starve themselves for faster times 😀)

Best of luck with fine tuning your nutrition / racing etc

fruitbats

ultrapercy wrote: »

I have always ran at around 158lb. Im 5.10 also. I feel this is too heavy but at under 10% body fat I find it hard to lose weight and also because Im a greeder fecker. I suppose it would mean dropping some muscle which I havent much of anyway. For Dublin last year I jot to 153 and ran a pb by a minute but it was a struggle.

I'm not sure what my body fat is, I must find out about how to get it measured. But from what I remember someone saying to me " a lose of 1lb is equal to about a minute improvement in the Marathon or 2 seconds per Mile" . So If I manged to lose the 20lbs I nee, then I'll be up with the Elites

Has anyone any reliable sources for the above statement?

fruitbats

HelenAnne wrote: »

I hope they didn’t make you take a long hard look at considering any dangerous weight loss plans or worrying excessively about your weight ... I only linked to them because they’re handy calculators that do the work of the algorithm for you, not because I think everyone should be that light.
you sound like you’re already quite trim.

I also got quite anxious looking at them - I only need to drop a pound or two to get to what Matt Fitzgerald’s book considers my racing weight, but I’d need to drop 7kg to get to the Stillman long distance weight. Dropping 7kg would probably be right for me if I was a full-time runner, but as a mid-40s recreational-runner woman with a full time job and a few other hobbies, it would take too much discipline & cross training.
Look at your life as a whole - if you can lose a few pounds healthily without running yourself into the ground, great, but don’t risk stress fractures & a miserable relationship with food to shave a few minutes off your marathon time!

(Ps that sounds very bossy - it’s not just aimed at you, it’s more for any runners who are tempted to starve themselves for faster times ��)

Best of luck with fine tuning your nutrition / racing etc

I completely agree with all you've said. I think if I can lose 4lbs before DCM I'll be happy. There is defiantly a balance but I remember 7 years ago trying to run marathons carrying 21lbs more than I weigh now, Nobody was willing to say to me " did you ever consider losing some weight" I think its neglected because people don't want to touch the subject with a barge pole . If i had of been made aware of it, I would had a lot happier experience over the years.

I think the calculators are a bit extreme but its nice to know what it takes to be on a professional level.

Good jib!

Just had a look at the weight calculator, absolutely shocked to find out I'm 10kg overweight for a middle-distance runner! Always considered myself a fairly slim fella.

Also had a look at the weight vs pace calculator on the same site, losing 2kg would shave a minute off my 10k. No beer for me tonight!

TFBubendorfer

Good jib! wrote: »

Just had a look at the weight calculator, absolutely shocked to find out I'm 10kg overweight for a middle-distance runner! Always considered myself a fairly slim fella.

Also had a look at the weight vs pace calculator on the same site, losing 2kg would shave a minute off my 10k. No beer for me tonight!

A friend of mine once was at the start of a race and saw some elite runners warming up while some of the local junkies were hanging around nearby. He could not tell who looked more in need of a breakfast.

Lesson: fast runners are extremely slim, but it may not be a healthy state

Good jib!

I'll try to remember to stop losing weight before I get to that stage!

Nuttzz

fruitbats wrote: »

I completely agree with all you've said. I think if I can lose 4lbs before DCM I'll be happy. There is defiantly a balance but I remember 7 years ago trying to run marathons carrying 21lbs more than I weigh now, Nobody was willing to say to me " did you ever consider losing some weight" I think its neglected because people don't want to touch the subject with a barge pole . If i had of been made aware of it, I would had a lot happier experience over the years.

I think the calculators are a bit extreme but its nice to know what it takes to be on a professional level.

Interesting, I have always considered myself to be too heavy for the distances I run and battle quite a bit with food (and beer :rolleyes:)

Lots of people have told me that I am over reacting and that I am "grand", having suffered an injury recently I went to the physio, and he told me you need to lose 2 stone pal, I'm on the way with half a stone gone already but weight is a sensitive issue but telling people they are grand when you know they arent is saving their feelings but not helping long term, I would have rather someone said to me, "if you feel like that find your racing weight and aim for it."