Secondary school choices in Dublin South

Srrrr

We are living in Dublin South and are looking for secondary schools for our older daughter. We have also read about the secondary school league tables published every year, but still would like to get some insider's views on the fee-paying and non-fee paying schools in Dublin South, i.e. Loreto Dalkey, Lotto Foxrock, Mount Anville, Muckross, Terisian, etc.? So any recommendations and advice will be greatly appreciated!

RosieJoe

What class is she in in Primary school? All the schools are doing open nights now for 4th class girls and these are the ones that should be reserving their places now.

And where exactly are you based to give an idea of some schools near enough to you

You’ve covered an enormous area there.

If you want fee paying, then you are also covering a huge range. Some schools are €2000 per year, others are €8000. Can you afford €800 per month for a school?

If money is not an issue, do you want a single sex school or mixed? Do you want the possibility to board as well?

Srrrr

Thanks RosieJoe and Aegir. My daughter is in third class now and yes, we will go to the open day when she is in fourth class. Therefore we would like to be more prepared in advance to have some rough idea about a selection of the school's. The schools aforementioned are the ones we know and some are close to where we live now, and we are prepared to move to the parish of whichever school she goes to. At the moment haven't thought about mixed schools yet, any recommendations Aegir? Forgive my ignorance, but which school is 8k/pa, thought MA was the most expensive one, second to North Anglia? Which are the best three of girls secondary school? What's the differences between different Lotto schools, i.e. Loreto Dalkey, Loreto Rathfarham, Lotto Foxrock?

AndrewJRenko

What is she interested in? Sports? Art? Technology? Academic?

ted1

Holy child killiney is 6k +
Wesley is 6K+
Alex about 7k +
St. Colombas is 8k



It all really depends on your child and what you want , where you live etc

Srrrr

We are not considering boarding at the moment. She is not sporty, but likes arts and very academic.

Srrrr

Correct me if I were wrong, I presumed the info you get from the open day is very generic, as you can easily search online now about their curriculum and extra-curriculum, etc. So looking for some insiders’ views here. You can abbreviate the school names if you wish. Like the idea of MA has Latin in their junior cert, but also heard about the bullying case from the news. In general, looking for an school with reputable academic excellence and positive atmosphere for peer learning. Btw, what are the main differences (in your opinion) between fee paying or non-fee paying schools.

Rathdown is €7k, but as with all schools, the published fees and what you actually end up paying are two different things.

We looked at several schools and went for Rathdown, for a number of reasons, but the main one was that we got a nice feel about the place. Good relationship between staff and pupils, good mix of sports and academics, a good balance of Stem subjects and arts etc etc. The principal came across very well and from what I have seen after four years, has lived up to our expectations and his promises. If I'm being honest though, they play cricket there and for me, that was the clincher!

It ticked all the boxes for us and was fairly local as well. I didn't want my daughter spending two hours a day on trains or buses. That said, I have friends with kids at St Andrews, Newpark, Holychild, Cluny and St Gerrards and they all speak very highly of their schools. A lot just comes down to what gives you a warm feeling.

Srrrr

Thanks a million Aegir! That's very informative! Yes, I do believe the instinct feelings too about the schools and pupils. Would you mind elaborate a bit more on the actual fees? What other fees could possibly be besides the published fees?

Srrrr

Thanks Ted1! Good to know about them too!

ted1

Srrrr wrote: »

We are not considering boarding at the moment. She is not sporty, but likes arts and very academic.

Those are the fees for day students, add 10k+ for boarding

ted1

The main difference between fee and non fee paying schools is the networking opportunity and life expectancies at a young age.

People may argue differently but from my experience, Kids from private schools grow up in environments where the adults they know are business leaders and senior management, legal professionals, doctors , senior engineers etc and so that the level of work they aspire too and realise how to get there.

The fees go toward reducing class sizes , providing additional support systems , additional subjects, swimming pools and other sports facilities.

The teachers in fee paying schools are generally no better or no worse than those in free schools.

Most the private schools are technically semi private as they follow the leaving very curriculum and receive state funding ( less than non fee paying ). The new school in Sandyford is one of the only truly private schools that follows the BAC and receives no funding.


One of the top scoring schools in Ireland is actually a non fee paying Gael colaiste in south Dublin

Srrrr

Thanks Ted1. Every opinion is welcome and appreciated. " Life expectancies at a young age?" How to interpret this? Yes the one in Sandyford is Nord Anglia, a chain international school worldwide. Also very curious to know how different are the incentive systems for teachers (to avoid resting on their laurels) and their qualifications in public and private schools......

Srrrr

Just had a quick scan of the St. Columbus website (got some oxcam feeling), am I right to understand it is very British or international oriented in terms of the third-level? Don't know if there are any open statistics to show in every secondary school the number of pupils who go to the non-Irish third-level universities and what are these universities?

I think he means what children are expecting/aspiring to be later on in life.

As someone who went to a non-feepaying school for Secondary but attended a course in college with primarily fee-paying and boarding school students; I'd agree with ted1. They aren't better educated, they do better at Leaving Cert exams, and they take it as par for the course that they can be whatever they want to be.

Why are you casting such a broad net for secondary schools? You should also be looking at a viable commute for your kid as one of the key requirements for a school.

Srrrr

Gael colaiste, is it the one opened in 2016?

Srrrr

Thanks for sharing your opinion too Wetasanotter. We don't mind broadening the options for schools, not limited to geographical locations, as long as it is the school that suits her best.

RosieJoe

Going back to the point of attending open nights. Yes you can get a lot of information from the school websites but going to the school, getting a feel for the place, the teachers and even talking to the students who are helping out on the night give you a much better idea of the school. As Aegir pointed out, it helped her make a decision on the school that they picked.

ted1

Srrrr wrote: »

Gael colaiste, is it the one opened in 2016?

No it’s colaiste Iosagain on the N11 across from UCD

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-league-tables/broadbased-learning-and-family-support-bring-results-35404163.html

Srrrr

Thanks RosieJoe. Hope our gut feeling will lead us finding the right school.

Srrrr

ted1 wrote: »

No it’s colaiste Iosagain on the N11 across from UCD

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/education/school-league-tables/broadbased-learning-and-family-support-bring-results-35404163.html

Thanks Ted1. Great to know! Will put this one on the list too.

starbaby2003

Srrrr wrote: »

Thanks Ted1. Great to know! Will put this one on the list too.

Unless your daughter is in Scoil Lorcáin I would say you have no chance of getting in. Muckrosspark is also vastly oversubscribed and people have their daughters names down from birth and still don’t get in.

huskerdu

Srrrr wrote: »

Thanks Ted1. Great to know! Will put this one on the list too.

There is very little chance of a place in Colaiste Iosagain unless you are already attending one of the feeder schools and/or fluent Irish speakers.

JDD

It's like an overlapping Venn diagram when considering fee-paying vs non-fee paying in South Dublin. There are of course non-fee paying schools that are just as good as the fee-paying schools both in terms of facilities and in terms of the overall expectations of the parents/school regarding the girls future careers. However the good non-fee paying schools tend to be vastly oversubscribed.

To get into Muckross, you have to going to one of the feeder national schools in the area, and you can't get into those national schools without actually living in the parish that they cover. It's quite the payout to buy a house/apartment in Donnybrook/Ballsbridge just for that purpose.

You won't get into Colaiste Iosagan unless your child is going to the all-Irish primary feeder school or if your child is going to one of the surrounding English speaking feeder schools that they hold one or two places for. In the unlikely event that they have places left over, they prioritise children of fluent Irish speakers, and they interview the children and parents beforehand to assess the fluency. It's fair enough, there's few enough all Irish schools and they should be prioritizing those that speak it fluently at home.

Sion Hill wasn't a great school when I was young, or at least didn't have a great reputation (20 years ago) but I have heard better things about it since then. It's non fee paying.

Loreto Foxrock and Loreto Dalkey seem to group themselves together inside my head. Both fee-paying, both in very well-off areas. I can't shake the feeling that their expectations for their pupils is to look good and marry well. That might be terribly unfair, but its the general impression I've got off the good few past pupils I have met over the years.

Loreto Stephen's Green is better and seems to present a more well rounded graduate. My only reservation would be its location and the temptation of having the shops so close by, but I do hear that the school is quite strict about that. Also the lack of sports facilities on site would be drawback for a sporty kid.

Mount Anville and Alexandra College I would also see in a similar category. Both fee paying, single sex, relatively large schools with good facilities (though neither have a swimming pool - what is it about girls private schools having three astro-turf hockey pitches and no swimming pools?). Both schools have good records regarding academics.

Recently though, I've heard great things about St Andrews in Booterstown. Nice atmosphere, good facilities, co-educational, and I have interviewed a few more recent alumni and they all seem super bright, very confident and very aware of the advantages forwarded to them. However, I think a lot more people have copped on to this and now you need to have your child in the private primary school in order to guarantee a place. It's also protestant rather than catholic, if you're not inclined towards the convent-esque style education in some other schools (though again, I'm sure that's vastly evolved since I was a student). I don't think it's the same for the other girls private schools - that you need to be in the attached private primary school in order to guarantee a place, though I may be wrong.

That's pretty much all I know and it's very subjective I know, but it might help in giving you a steer.

Srrrr

JDD wrote: »

It's like an overlapping Venn diagram when considering fee-paying vs non-fee paying in South Dublin. There are of course non-fee paying schools that are just as good as the fee-paying schools both in terms of facilities and in terms of the overall expectations of the parents/school regarding the girls future careers. However the good non-fee paying schools tend to be vastly oversubscribed.

To get into Muckross, you have to going to one of the feeder national schools in the area, and you can't get into those national schools without actually living in the parish that they cover. It's quite the payout to buy a house/apartment in Donnybrook/Ballsbridge just for that purpose.

You won't get into Colaiste Iosagan unless your child is going to the all-Irish primary feeder school or if your child is going to one of the surrounding English speaking feeder schools that they hold one or two places for. In the unlikely event that they have places left over, they prioritise children of fluent Irish speakers, and they interview the children and parents beforehand to assess the fluency. It's fair enough, there's few enough all Irish schools and they should be prioritizing those that speak it fluently at home.

Sion Hill wasn't a great school when I was young, or at least didn't have a great reputation (20 years ago) but I have heard better things about it since then. It's non fee paying.

Loreto Foxrock and Loreto Dalkey seem to group themselves together inside my head. Both fee-paying, both in very well-off areas. I can't shake the feeling that their expectations for their pupils is to look good and marry well. That might be terribly unfair, but its the general impression I've got off the good few past pupils I have met over the years.

Loreto Stephen's Green is better and seems to present a more well rounded graduate. My only reservation would be its location and the temptation of having the shops so close by, but I do hear that the school is quite strict about that. Also the lack of sports facilities on site would be drawback for a sporty kid.

Mount Anville and Alexandra College I would also see in a similar category. Both fee paying, single sex, relatively large schools with good facilities (though neither have a swimming pool - what is it about girls private schools having three astro-turf hockey pitches and no swimming pools?). Both schools have good records regarding academics.

Recently though, I've heard great things about St Andrews in Booterstown. Nice atmosphere, good facilities, co-educational, and I have interviewed a few more recent alumni and they all seem super bright, very confident and very aware of the advantages forwarded to them. However, I think a lot more people have copped on to this and now you need to have your child in the private primary school in order to guarantee a place. It's also protestant rather than catholic, if you're not inclined towards the convent-esque style education in some other schools (though again, I'm sure that's vastly evolved since I was a student). I don't think it's the same for the other girls private schools - that you need to be in the attached private primary school in order to guarantee a place, though I may be wrong.

That's pretty much all I know and it's very subjective I know, but it might help in giving you a steer.

Greatly appreciated for your honest opinions JDD. This is truly informative and helpful to me as an outsider.

Spring2019

Muckross Park College and Coláiste Íosagáin are both excellent schools academically, however impossible to get into unless you have gone to one of the feeder schools. Both have excellent facilities, particularly for non- fee paying schools. The expectations from parents in both schools would be very high.
Sion Hill in Blackrock, also non- fee paying, is worth looking into. I don’t know much about the school, but have heard that it has improved hugely in the last few years as a result of its current principal. A lot of children from a primary school in Foxrock are now choosing to go to Sion Hill instead of Loreto Foxrock.
Personally, if I had a daughter and they didn’t get into Muckross or Coláiste Íosagáin I would be looking into sending them privately. Loreto Stephen’s Green, Alexandra College or Mount Anville would be high on my list.
It really depends which school would best suit your daughter in terms of what area she’s hoping to go into as a career and what her interests are i.e. sciences, languages, business/ accounting, visual arts, sport etc. I would also find out what academic support the school offers in case it were ever needed and how good the school is at fostering the overall emotional well-being of their students. Seeing each of the schools for yourself is your best bet and try speaking with some of the school’s current pupils to help with your decision. Meeting with the principal can give you a great insight into a school and expectations of students. I would also find out is the school’s principal near retirement, as a school can drastically change with a new principal. Do also look up has the school had a recent WSE (Whole School Evaluation) from the Department of Education. Best of luck!

Srrrr

Spring2019 wrote: »

Muckross Park College and Coláiste Íosagáin are both excellent schools academically, however impossible to get into unless you have gone to one of the feeder schools. Both have excellent facilities, particularly for non- fee paying schools. The expectations from parents in both schools would be very high.
Sion Hill in Blackrock, also non- fee paying, is worth looking into. I don’t know much about the school, but have heard that it has improved hugely in the last few years as a result of its current principal. A lot of children from a primary school in Foxrock are now choosing to go to Sion Hill instead of Loreto Foxrock.
Personally, if I had a daughter and they didn’t get into Muckross or Coláiste Íosagáin I would be looking into sending them privately. Loreto Stephen’s Green, Alexandra College or Mount Anville would be high on my list.
It really depends which school would best suit your daughter in terms of what area she’s hoping to go into as a career and what her interests are i.e. sciences, languages, business/ accounting, visual arts, sport etc. I would also find out what academic support the school offers in case it were ever needed and how good the school is at fostering the overall emotional well-being of their students. Seeing each of the schools for yourself is your best bet and try speaking with some of the school’s current pupils to help with your decision. Meeting with the principal can give you a great insight into a school and expectations of students. I would also find out is the school’s principal near retirement, as a school can drastically change with a new principal. Do also look up has the school had a recent WSE (Whole School Evaluation) from the Department of Education. Best of luck!

Thanks a million Spring2019. Very useful advice!

Another concern I have about the girls' school is bullying. Would mixed school be better than all girls school in this case?

Day Lewin

Just to add - Mount Anville is notorious for eating disorders.

And its academic results are no better than any secondary school with an exclusively upper-middle-class intake.

St Raphaela's in Stillorgan is good. Well spoken of by teachers.

Edgware

Srrrr wrote: »

Thanks a million Spring2019. Very useful advice!

Another concern I have about the girls' school is bullying. Would mixed school be better than all girls school in this case?

One can be as bad as the other. There will always be sniping and smart comments. I think its better to stay same sex schools but it wont stop bullying if there is not proper controls in place. A lot of kids want to go to the same school as their "friends" from primary school but its no harm to leave that baggage behind.

Srrrr

Day Lewin wrote: »

Just to add - Mount Anville is notorious for eating disorders.

And its academic results are no better than any secondary school with an exclusively upper-middle-class intake.

St Raphaela's in Stillorgan is good. Well spoken of by teachers.

Thanks Day Lewin.

Srrrr

Edgware wrote: »

One can be as bad as the other. There will always be sniping and smart comments. I think its better to stay same sex schools but it wont stop bullying if there is not proper controls in place. A lot of kids want to go to the same school as their "friends" from primary school but its no harm to leave that baggage behind.

Thanks Edgware. I kinda feel that have to do a swot analysis even just to make initial scoping of schools.

Any other comments about schools are always welcome

AndrewJRenko

Day Lewin wrote: »

Just to add - Mount Anville is notorious for eating disorders.

Really? Not just in the RO'CK books?

Edgware wrote: »

I think its better to stay same sex schools but it wont stop bullying if there is not proper controls in place.

I don't think bullying is addressed with 'controls'. You can't stop it happening. You can create a culture where it is just unacceptable to everybody, especially the bystanders.

starbaby2003

Srrrr wrote: »

Thanks Edgware. I kinda feel that have to do a swot analysis even just to make initial scoping of schools.

Any other comments about schools are always welcome

I think for free schools and mount Anville you need to make sure your daughter is on the feeder schools list. If not you can essentially scratch those. That might be a good starting point to reduce options.

Srrrr

Srrrr wrote: »

We are living in Dublin South and are looking for secondary schools for our older daughter. We have also read about the secondary school league tables published every year, but still would like to get some insider's views on the fee-paying and non-fee paying schools in Dublin South, i.e. Loreto Dalkey, Lotto Foxrock, Mount Anville, Muckross, Terisian, etc.? So any recommendations and advice will be greatly appreciated!

Just a word on those league tables.

They are carried out by the Irish Times and look at what schools students in Irish universities came from and ranks the schools accordingly. If a student does not go to an Irish university, they are not counted.

My daughter's school for example, has a number of Spanish borders who will go on to university in Spain, they have also had two girls offered places at Cambridge this year and over the last few years, have regularly sent students on to Edinburgh and other highly ranked UK universities. As far as the league tables are concerned, those girls do not go on to tertiary education.

starbaby2003

Aegir wrote: »

Just a word on those league tables.

They are carried out by the Irish Times and look at what schools students in Irish universities came from and ranks the schools accordingly. If a student does not go to an Irish university, they are not counted.

My daughter's school for example, has a number of Spanish borders who will go on to university in Spain, they have also had two girls offered places at Cambridge this year and over the last few years, have regularly sent students on to Edinburgh and other highly ranked UK universities. As far as the league tables are concerned, those girls do not go on to tertiary education.

I have heard this about Sion Hill. That the number of true college students is vastly underestimated. This is why all this data needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. In my opinion finding the best fit school for your child isn’t obvious until they are at least 10/11 and you can see what their interests are. I find it maddening that so many secondary schools take names before the child is even in primary!

mfceiling

Srrrr wrote: »

We are not considering boarding at the moment. She is not sporty, but likes arts and very academic.

My daughter is in The High School in Rathgar. They cater for kids who have a range of interests...My daughter isn't particularly sporty and it's not an issue as there's loads of other activities to focus on.

Srrrr

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I think for free schools and mount Anville you need to make sure your daughter is on the feeder schools list. If not you can essentially scratch those. That might be a good starting point to reduce options.

Thanks a million!

Srrrr

Aegir wrote: »

Just a word on those league tables.

They are carried out by the Irish Times and look at what schools students in Irish universities came from and ranks the schools accordingly. If a student does not go to an Irish university, they are not counted.

My daughter's school for example, has a number of Spanish borders who will go on to university in Spain, they have also had two girls offered places at Cambridge this year and over the last few years, have regularly sent students on to Edinburgh and other highly ranked UK universities. As far as the league tables are concerned, those girls do not go on to tertiary education.

Do you mind if I ask which school, is it MA?

Srrrr

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I have heard this about Sion Hill. That the number of true college students is vastly underestimated. This is why all this data needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. In my opinion finding the best fit school for your child isn’t obvious until they are at least 10/11 and you can see what their interests are. I find it maddening that so many secondary schools take names before the child is even in primary!

Couldn't agree more! Sometimes even after you finish your university you still don't know if you have made the right choice about the major that will have long impact on your future career, not to mention that you have to put the kids name down when born for primary and secondary schools.

starbaby2003

tillybill wrote: »

Thanks Schemingbohemia, I totally agree with you but it doesnt help the situation my daughter is in, she's trying to mix with others but doesnt know the rules as we're not from the area and didnt know the nuances about certain schools which others seem to live by, she's nearly finished so hopefully third level will have a more level playing field than second.

What age is she ? Is she in another local school now ? I’ve never heard of people not mixing because of schools. Certainly in our estate there is a mix of private and public ( both primary and secondary) and I have never observed kids to be excluded based on uniform. Does she play sports ?

Srrrr

Srrrr wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask which school, is it MA?

Rathdown.

Excellent facilities and relatively small classes as well.

Edgware

I would advise that your daughter just stick to her studies for the next few months. When she goes to third level she will leave all this silly schoolgirl bull**** behind her. She will meet students from all over Ireland and outside rather than the narrow minded little ****s from so called better schools in south Dublin. She will have great fun once she gets stuck in to a few sociteties and clubs. I post from experience of my daughter where in her third level group the south Dublin girls who thought they were something quickly realised that they were being isolated by the others who sized them up for the spoilt Mammies girls they were.

Srrrr

Aegir wrote: »

Rathdown.

Excellent facilities and relatively small classes as well.

Thanks, will definitely look into it.

Srrrr

Srrrr wrote: »

Thanks, will definitely look into it.

Do, we have had no regrets about sending our daughter there. They have pretty good arts facilities, fantastic music facilities and an academic record that is up there with the very best.

We were a little concerned at first that she would be mixing with some very wealthy people and she would experience some snobbery, but that hasn't been the case at all. She doesn't really mix that much with kids from non fee paying schools though, other than Newpark, but as Rathdown gives out a lot of scholarships, she does have a diverse mix of friends which is something we encourage.

It is a fully private school, in that despite being nominally Church of Ireland in Ethos, it is owned by a trust and not the church and therefore lives up to its mantra of catering for girls of all faiths and none.

sentosa123

Srrrr wrote: »

We are living in Dublin South and are looking for secondary schools for our older daughter. We have also read about the secondary school league tables published every year, but still would like to get some insider's views on the fee-paying and non-fee paying schools in Dublin South, i.e. Loreto Dalkey, Lotto Foxrock, Mount Anville, Muckross, Terisian, etc.? So any recommendations and advice will be greatly appreciated!

have you checked out St. Columba's in whitechurch? v good school and they have school bus svc from Dalkey dart station.

sentosa123

Srrrr wrote: »

Just had a quick scan of the St. Columbus website (got some oxcam feeling), am I right to understand it is very British or international oriented in terms of the third-level? Don't know if there are any open statistics to show in every secondary school the number of pupils who go to the non-Irish third-level universities and what are these universities?

have you visited the school? If you ask them your questions they will answer. I know that quite numbers of students would go abroad for universities. they don't have international curriculum(i.e. IB, St. Andrews has and the Nord Anglia school has ) but only leaving cert (so it is quite irish). they have few international students but I wouldn't say they are very British. I think the foreign students at the school chose the school because it is quite Irish and the settings are beautiful also.
the only obstacles of chosing the school would be the location(a little far from easy access to public transport) and the fee ( yeh quite expensive).

spurious

It may or not matter to you, but having corrected mocks from almost all the schools mentioned over the years, there is very little to separate them at either end of the scale.. All have very good students, all have children who score very poorly and may have been entered at an inappropriate level for them. In at least one school mentioned there seems to be many children for whom English is not their first language. This is clear in examinations.

Much the same as schools anywhere, to be fair.