Friendship fallout.

FarmersSon

Hi, not really sure what I am looking for by posting this. Maybe to vent or gain some outside perspective on the following events.

At my mates suggestion, they proposed that we take a weekend trip to Berlin as I hadn't been before, and that Berlin is one of their favorite cities, having been 7-8 times previously. Being able to converse in German, he'd show me around the sights and basically be a tour guide. Flights booked there and then. Job done.

This would be our first trip away together, myself not having traveled extensively, my friend being a seasoned, experienced, independent traveler.

I was asked to book the accommodation and book the reservation / entry to the Bundestag. The rest of the attractions we can just sort out when get there. I did the usual reading up of the the best attractions, things to do in Berlin, so at least I would have a general idea of what to see and do.

I'll admit that I would be a bit slow / inexperienced on figuring out public transport in a new city, what train to get, knowing to get the ticket validated, etc. I do eventually get sorted, but I may take a while longer than others.

This is one of the issues that I had with my friend. They would have a tendency to treat everything as a race. Racing to get off the airplane, out of the airport, to the ticket machine, and speed off to get to the platform, whilst I am still standing behind at barrier or ticket machine, scratching my head to figure out what I should be doing.

His experience and constant rushing just left me feeling stressed and pressure to always know right way to do things there and then, and then feeling like a dunce for asking him for some guidance.

This was repeated with food and choice of places to eat. Was tasked with finding places for breakfast and dinner, with the suggestions subsequently looked on online by him for the latest reviews. Turns out he'd have had already researched various places to eat and vetted them.

With the sights and attractions, as they had previously seen them all on their previous visits, they just wanted to go and have coffee somewhere and reply to work emails and read their kindle. Ended up touring the majority of the city by myself.

All came to a head on the last day, when they spent the previous night at a night club and returned at 7am in the morning, managing 2 hours sleep before we had to get packed up and make our way to the train station.

Again I was tasked with getting to the train station and finding the right platform. Him already knowing knowing what to do and where to go, having been there so many times previously. Having got to the train station, and trying to figure out what platform and ticket to get, this was when I snapped and said that he was really starting to piss me off.

An Italian tourist was able point me in the right direction, at this stage my friend had already gone off and bought his train ticket and was standing at the right platform.

I said it would have been appreciated if he could at least give me some guidance, and show me where to go. It was he who suggested to go to Berlin, he who offered to show me around, and that he had been to the city before and knew they lay of the land.

He reply was that he didn't want to step on my toes and he thought I had it all in hand and couldn't see why I was pissed off with him. He was tired and hungover, and couldn't see what my beef was.

He can't understand why I would be pissed at him.
Maybe I'm over reacting, and have no right to have a grievance?

I have always thought that mates look out for each other, and had their back and help them out in these situations. Maybe I'm just more annoyed at this and maybe I wrong for not asking for a bit of help.

He offered an apology, but again said that he didn't know what he was supposed to be apologizing for. I said if he didn't know what he was apologizing for, that he shouldn't offer an apology. That didn't go down well.

I apologized for getting pissed at him and we agreed to draw a line under it.

We barely spoke a word at the airport and the walk to our separate cars at the airport car park. He asked if I was still pissed at him, because I only had spoken in two / three word replies. I said after a weekend away, I just don't have any conversation left in me. They never offered up any conversation themselves, and to be honest, I was just trying to keep my mouth shut for fear of saying the wrong thing and making matters worse.

I thanked him for showing me around Berlin, and left it at that.

They'd be heavily into fitness, and have an interest in psychology. At times I do think I am part of some social experiment or field test when I am around them, where they already know that they have won or have all the answers.

Would appreciate any thoughts on the above.

Thanks.

The phrase "race" struck a chord with me. Your former friend seems very "get up and go", which does not appear to match your own approach which tends more towards "laid back" on that 'spectrum' - You're not at the "laid back" end I believe although not 'full of beans' at the same time.
Maybe indeed time to go your separate ways like crockett and tubbs did at the end of Miami vice?

yosser hughes

FarmersSon wrote: »

He offered an apology, but again said that he didn't know what he was supposed to be apologizing for. I said if he didn't know what he was apologizing for, that he shouldn't offer an apology. That didn't go down well

This stood out for me. I hate this. He said sorry and you give him this?
You need to accept apologies and move on. Your response is like something my wife would say.

FarmersSon

yosser hughes wrote: »

This stood out for me. I hate this. He said sorry and you give him this?
You need to accept apologies and move on. Your response is like something my wife would say.

I do accept that I could have handled the acceptance of an apology better. Certainly wasn't my best moment.

I will go back to him and apologize for that. I guess I was still annoyed at the situation. Lesson learnt.

Thanks.

JeffKenna

How did it end up your friend was at a night club until 7am without you? Did you not bother going? Seems like you both wanted different things from the holiday.

wiggle16

If he apologised I would draw a line under it and let it go. If you feel you need to, just say "I'm sorry if I threw your apology back at you, I didn't mean it like that. Let's forget about it" etc. Don't bring up the actual issue again. He's already apologised. It's more than you'll get from a lot of people!

I know what you mean by not apologising if you don't understand why you should be sorry, but again, he's not going to understand that either. Just take it as a lesson never to travel with him again. He should have looked out for you more but he obviously didn't consider that you weren't as savvy as him.

Next time he says something along the lines of "I was thinking we could visit Munich" etc just say "cool, Gute Reise! Hope you have a ball!" :P

FarmersSon

JeffKenna wrote: »

How did it end up your friend was at a night club until 7am without you? Did you not bother going? Seems like you both wanted different things from the holiday.

We both went to the same nightclub on the Thursday night. I wanted to go and try out other bars on the Friday night, but they had done those bars before on their previous visits, so they headed back to the same nightclub. They went to the same venue again on the Saturday night.

I decided not to go out on the Saturday night, because I knew we'd have to start making our way to the airport early in the morning.

.......

FarmersSon wrote: »

At times I do think I am part of some social experiment or field test when I am around them, where they already know that they have won or have all the answers.

This isnt how you should feel around a friend.

I understand your point about his apology too - I dont think there is any point in someone apologising if they dont know what they are apologising for - however, if you wont tell him what pissed you off then he cannot be expected to play guessing games.

iamwhoiam

I dont get it . He knew Berlin well and knew his way around and he " tasked" you to get tickets and where to eat etc
A mate would guide you and help you out and not act like an ass dolling out
" tasks"

shesty

Why are you "tasked" with sorting things on a joint holiday with just two of you going (and one has been already??).It's not a college assignment or experiment....?
That is a bit odd.

JeffKenna

shesty wrote: »

Why are you "tasked" with sorting things on a joint holiday with just two of you going (and one has been already??).It's not a college assignment or experiment....?
That is a bit odd.

My reading of it is that the friend got fed up of minding the OP. Look at the situation that led to the fight... The OP wasn't able to find the correct train platform yet the friend was there ahead of him after only two hours sleep the night before.

I mean Germany is very easy to nagaviate around, they all have English and the signs are in English too.

cloudatlas

yosser hughes wrote: »

This stood out for me. I hate this. He said sorry and you give him this?
You need to accept apologies and move on. Your response is like something my wife would say.

It wasn't an apology 'He offered an apology, but again said that he didn't know what he was supposed to be apologizing for'

But that is besides the point, it sounds like the O.p. is quite a nervous traveler and insecure about asking for directions, afraid of looking like a fool not knowing where to go which is part and parcel of travelling, it also sounds like your friends had a different idea of how they wanted to spend their time, chilling and then partying, whereas yours was doing the sites and resting.

There should have been clearer communication and compromise when it was discovered that you didn't want to do the same things i.e. 'I'll go off on the tour and see you at the cafe at X time and well grab a drink'. On the other hand you can't blame these guys for your insecurities and anxiety and you should take ownership of your time instead of looking to them to fix everything and tell you what to do.

You either have to accept and appreciate that they have a different personality type and try and find common interests or accept that they enjoy things that you don't enjoy and find different friends.

stop animal cruelty

This guy sounds like a know it all and dlck.
He owes you a proper apology, not you. I wouldn't hang around for one, please don't accept the one he gave u......he said he doesn't know what he is apologising for.... They why give an apology?!

Sorry but that's not a friend.

iamwhoiam

JeffKenna wrote: »

My reading of it is that the friend got fed up of minding the OP. Look at the situation that led to the fight... The OP wasn't able to find the correct train platform yet the friend was there ahead of him after only two hours sleep the night before.

I mean Germany is very easy to nagaviate around, they all have English and the signs are in English too.

Well my reading of it is the friend dashed off immediately after arriving at the airport
And the mate was able to find the platform because he was there 7/8 times before
Honestly can't see why he couldn't guide the OP to the right way to do it . It's surely what mates do ?

JeffKenna

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Well my reading of it is the friend dashed off immediately after arriving at the airport
Honestly can't see why he couldn't guide the OP to the right way to do it . It's surely what mates do ?

Maybe he got fed up of being around the OP if they were stressing about nothing? We're getting a very one sided viewpoint here as naturally we only have one side of the story.

iamwhoiam

JeffKenna wrote: »

Maybe he got fed up of being around the OP if they were stressing about nothing? We're getting a very one sided viewpoint here as naturally we only have one side of the story.

Well yes , unless he asks the know it all mate to contribute thats how boards work !

wiggle16

Mod note:
Enough of the back and forth in the thread please. It's hardly helpful to the OP to point out that "we're only getting one side of the story". That's how PI works. It's not a courtroom.

OP, I just realised I misread your post, I thought you meant that your friend didnt seem to know what he was apologising for, not that he said that! So yeah it's not much of an apology.

That being said, I'd stick with my previous advice and draw a line under it and move on. Don't travel with him again. He sounds a bit inconsiderate but a minding/minder situation while abroad becomes tense very quickly (I say that having been both minder and minded on different occaisions!).

FarmersSon

wiggle16 wrote: »

If he apologised I would draw a line under it and let it go. If you feel you need to, just say "I'm sorry if I threw your apology back at you, I didn't mean it like that. Let's forget about it" etc. Don't bring up the actual issue again. He's already apologised. It's more than you'll get from a lot of people!

I know what you mean by not apologising if you don't understand why you should be sorry, but again, he's not going to understand that either. Just take it as a lesson never to travel with him again. He should have looked out for you more but he obviously didn't consider that you weren't as savvy as him.

Next time he says something along the lines of "I was thinking we could visit Munich" etc just say "cool, Gute Reise! Hope you have a ball!" :P

Thanks wiggle16.

Good advice, thank you.

shesty

No I'm sorry...he suggested you both go away, he asked you to sort accommodation, entrance tickets to the Bundestag, somewhere to eat dinner and breakfast, and places to see.....
Then he basically left you standing there while he went ahead and navigated his way around the public transport system, and left you to tour the city mainly by yourself.....

That is just weird!!I mean I get that he had seen the stuff before and everything, but why did he bother suggesting to go at all then??And with only two of you going, he landed you with sorting most things, and either vetoed or didn't go to see attractions/restaurants and (apparently) didn't offer much assistance while using transport either?I mean I can get being frustrated having to be someone's keeper, but if there is only two of you, you kind of say 'here we buy the train tickets over here, come on" etc.It'slike he wanted to set the OP an assignment of navigating a strange city or something!!

Yeah OP, the apology thing is annoying but I can't see why he bothered suggesting that you both go in the first place anyway!

wiggle16

FarmersSon wrote: »

Thanks wiggle16.

Good advice, thank you.

With the caveat that you're not to apologise to him, I misread your post initially! :rolleyes: I'd just leave it be and let him jet off by himself in future.

Wanderer2010

FarmersSon wrote: »

I do accept that I could have handled the acceptance of an apology better. Certainly wasn't my best moment.

I will go back to him and apologize for that. I guess I was still annoyed at the situation. Lesson learnt.

Thanks.

That advice quoted is not in any way helpful.

I would also hate it if someone just apologized for the sake of it but didn't have any understanding as to why the person was upset or what they did to cause it. Without that, its just meaningless words and the person will continue to do what they did as they have no awareness of the issue. Plus the "something my wife would say" is a pure dig aimed at trying to make you seem foolish for a man wanting an apology.

FarmersSon

shesty wrote: »

No I'm sorry...he suggested you both go away, he asked you to sort accommodation, entrance tickets to the Bundestag, somewhere to eat dinner and breakfast, and places to see.....
Then he basically left you standing there while he went ahead and navigated his way around the public transport system, and left you to tour the city mainly by yourself.....

That is just weird!!I mean I get that he had seen the stuff before and everything, but why did he bother suggesting to go at all then??And with only two of you going, he landed you with sorting most things, and either vetoed or didn't go to see attractions/restaurants and (apparently) didn't offer much assistance while using transport either?I mean I can get being frustrated having to be someone's keeper, but if there is only two of you, you kind of say 'here we buy the train tickets over here, come on" etc.It'slike he wanted to set the OP an assignment of navigating a strange city or something!!

Yeah OP, the apology thing is annoying but I can't see why he bothered suggesting that you both go in the first place anyway!

Thanks for the reply, this is pretty much nail on the head.

It was more the point that they knew Berlin and said that they would show me around, be a guide.

If I had been going over on to visit for the first time on my own, I would have been prepared for that and sorted myself out, and been okay with messing up or taking my time to figure stuff out.

Its the fact he was beside and knew the craic, yet still went about asking me to find my way about, when he knew the right direction the whole time.

I don't mind being pulled up if I cock things up, but when I was stressing trying find the right station and platform, and him standing beside me, saying nothing, because he didn't want to 'second guess me', instead of him saying 'here ye dick, you're going to the wrong station, its over here' and 'grab your ticket there and this is the platform to the airport right in front of you'.

I just felt like an idiot. That's when I called him out for it.

Katgurl

He sounds odd and quite horrible. Waiting and watching while you tried to figure it out then making his own way to the right platform? He was presumably on a comedown from many chemicals if he was in a nightclub till 7am.

How close is the friendship? I'd probably draw a line under this but make sure I wasn't in a situation where I was in any way reliant on him again. You would have had more fun on your own frankly.

miamee

This all sounds very odd OP, why do you think he invited you to come with him to Berlin if he was basically going to do his own thing? Was it just the two of you?

Very strange behaviour, almost as if he was testing you. I know if I travel anywhere with someone and I have been there before but they haven't, I am more likely to take the lead and show them the way, where to go, etc. rather than standing back waiting for them to figure it out.

I'd categorise this trip as 'been there, done that' and would not go away with him by myself again if I were you. Did you even enjoy the weekend aside from that? You probably would have had a better time on your own than with yer man.

FarmersSon

Katgurl wrote: »

He sounds odd and quite horrible. Waiting and watching while you tried to figure it out then making his own way to the right platform? He was presumably on a comedown from many chemicals if he was in a nightclub till 7am.

How close is the friendship? I'd probably draw a line under this but make sure I wasn't in a situation where I was in any way reliant on him again. You would have had more fun on your own frankly.

It would be unfair to call him horrible, but he would be odd in a highly intelligent way and could imagine him to be on the Asperger's spectrum in some form. Maybe that might explain things or not.

We would be close enough I guess, as generally we tend to get on well when meet up.

Though I have recently told him to stop with the psychological questioning that he would tend to slip into conversations and he did agreed not to do it again.

In the back of my head, I am still questioning this testing thing - this is whats really throwing me. If he is indeed playing some sort of private game, and if I still want to be an unwilling participant.

Agree, I'd have probably had more fun on my own.

Thanks.

FarmersSon

miamee wrote: »

This all sounds very odd OP, why do you think he invited you to come with him to Berlin if he was basically going to do his own thing? Was it just the two of you?

Very strange behaviour, almost as if he was testing you. I know if I travel anywhere with someone and I have been there before but they haven't, I am more likely to take the lead and show them the way, where to go, etc. rather than standing back waiting for them to figure it out.

I'd categorise this trip as 'been there, done that' and would not go away with him by myself again if I were you. Did you even enjoy the weekend aside from that? You probably would have had a better time on your own than with yer man.

Yeah, it was just the two of us on this trip.

The weekend was fun, good to get a few days off work and experience a new city.

Thanks.

Dark Phoenix

i was on a trip last year with a client and my husband. The client said at one point 'oh my god your like a clone of my husband you would know you travel for business' to me. I do everything at speed, I walk fast, talk fast and when I am travelling everything is about time efficiency because normally I travel for work and haven't time to waste getting stuck behind slow walkers or at the back of queues. I also tend to do things on auto pilot without realising, again out of habit. Am I rude? No genuinely its not my intent I just wont realise that everyone is not moving as fast as me or doesnt know where to go. Sounds like your friend might be the same if they travel a lot and from what you have said - when you challenged them they said they didnt know you needed help.
germany in particular is a very fast paced and efficient city. i was there myself last year and the contact I had to meet sent me what they felt was very precise directions for public transport. For me not being familiar it was double dutch so I had to ask for some help to get there. was she being rude? no, not at all shes just so used to the system and is very quick and clever at picking up maps and public transport where as its something I am slower at.
basically - if you need help - ask. if you don't want to book anything - say so. I'd think from reading it that your friend asked you to book some things so that i'd didn't seem like they were taking over and had you just explained you would rather be led that to lead they would have given you more of a hand. Your friend isnt psychic.