Does Slane need a motorway link?

Kermit.de.frog

marno21 wrote: »

Ashbourne-Kilmoon will likely be motorway/Type 1. The rest 2+2 at a maximum.

That makes zero sense. Slane will be a suburb of Dublin soon and will need a motorway link similar to the M3 to Navan.

Obsessing with current traffic flows will leave us short changed again with a substandard road.

Do it right the first time.

(I know that's a new concept for Ireland)

marno21

Moved from Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross

Discuss away here.

BelfastVanMan

2+2 the whole way to Derry from south of Slane, D2M south of there.

Nothing more needed.

L1011

No. Unless you're a blue sign fetishist there's no reason now, or with any predicted traffic growth, for it to be more than 2+2.

Kermit.de.frog

That mentality will keep the country in the dark ages.

It is obvious that a motorway is required to Slane for future traffic.

The Slane bypass could also be motorway because I see no reason not to go the full way for the sake of a couple of kms.

We need proper forward thinking.

And when it's done we don't need to come back to it in 25 years.

L1011

What are your qualifications as a transport engineer to say that it is "obvious"?

Kermit.de.frog

Don't have to be a transport engineer to know it's obvious. Just look a map.

HonalD

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't have to be a transport engineer to know it's obvious. Just look a map.

“It is, because I say it is”. Lovely analysis there to justify nothing.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't have to be a transport engineer to know it's obvious. Just look a map.

So - no qualifications and basing it on nonsense then? Useful to know.

Do you know the traffic levels required for each class of road and the methods used for future predict traffic growth?

BelfastVanMan

Of course he doesn't... X:D

Kermit.de.frog

I wouldn't make assumptions about my (or anyone else') qualifications.

I have the common sense approach.

You have the country village mindset. You must come from the west or something, rural anyway. We need to root out that mindset.


Towns like Slane will be suburbs of Dublin with people commuting back and forth.

They should have access to a motorway to the city.

It's really not complicated.

amcalester

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I wouldn't make assumptions about my (or anyone else') qualifications.

I have the common sense approach.

You have the country village mindset. You must come from the west or something, rural anyway. We need to root out that mindset.


Towns like Slane will be suburbs of Dublin with people commuting back and forth.

They should have access to a motorway to the city.

It's really not complicated.

Better to build higher density housing in Dublin that roads that encourage people to move further away from their job.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have the common sense approach.

You have the "make stuff up on a whim" approach

Go on, explain the maximum AADT for specified levels of service on different classes of road; explain your calculation of how this road will need to be of a higher class within its design life.

Its not common sense unless you can actually justify it.

HonalD

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I wouldn't make assumptions about my (or anyone else') qualifications.

I have the common sense approach.

You have the country village mindset. You must come from the west or something, rural anyway. We need to root out that mindset.


Towns like Slane will be suburbs of Dublin with people commuting back and forth.

They should have access to a motorway to the city.

It's really not complicated.

Can you explain a) how there is any justification for your statement that “suburbs of Dublin.....should have access to a motorway to the city”? b) if it’s “really not complicated”, who’s realistically going to pay for a Slane Motorway?

Kermit.de.frog

AADT is already near the limit between Ashborne and Slane for 2+2. It's almost 16k.

Slane is going to be developed - more people are going to live there.

More will be commuting.

Ergo it should have a motorway to future proof for the inevitable increase in traffic.

Kermit.de.frog

HonalD wrote: »

Can you explain a) how there is any justification for your statement that “suburbs of Dublin.....should have access to a motorway to the city”? b) if it’s “really not complicated”, who’s realistically going to pay for a Slane Motorway?

Taxpayers of course. Good investment too.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

AADT is already near the limit between Ashborne and Slane for 2+2. It's almost 16k.

Slane is going to be developed - more people are going to live there.

More will be commuting.

Ergo it should have a motorway to future proof for the inevitable increase in traffic.

So no figures, then? Except an AADT from just north of Ashbourne, not anywhere near Slane. And roughly halfway through the design capacity is not "near the limit"

Are you aware of how little land in Slane is zoned for residential and how the entire village is surrounded by amenity zoned land - effectively a green belt?

You want motorway for the sake of it, screw the facts.

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

So no figures, then? Except an AADT from just north of Ashbourne, not anywhere near Slane.

Are you aware of how little land in Slane is zoned for residential and how the entire village is surrounded by amenity zoned land - effectively a green belt?

You want motorway for the sake of it, screw the facts.

No, I want motorway because it's needed and Slane is in the commuter belt.

You don't want it due to bias and country village view of how this country should be run and built up.

That mentality has held the country's development back and is, thankfully, increasingly unwelcome but we have some way to go clearly to bring attitudes in to the more urban 21st century in Ireland. Not backwards rural.

Dublin needs it's own separate transport governance from the rest of the country to restrict rural influence on it's development that is so costly. That would be for roads and PT.

You are just proving the point.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No, I want motorway because it's needed and Slane is in the commuter belt.

You don't want it due to bias and country village view of how this country should be run and built up.

That mentality has held the country's development back and is, thankfully, increasingly unwelcome but we have some way to go clearly to bring attitudes in to the more urban 21st century in Ireland. Not backwards rural.

Dublin needs it's own separate transport governance from the rest of the country to restrict rural influence on it's development that is so costly. That would be for roads and PT.

I'm not saying I don't want it - I'm saying it is entirely unjustified with the hard facts. The traffic figures aren't there and won't be there. Slane should never be developed as a commuter town and the Meath County Development Plan reflects this thankfully.

You want it for emotion, because you are obsessed with big roads.

You may not have noticed, but its not in Dublin, or the Greater Dublin Area either.

PhilOssophy

Would a train not be a better idea?

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

I'm not saying I don't want it - I'm saying it is entirely unjustified with the hard facts. The traffic figures aren't there and won't be there. Slane should never be developed as a commuter town and the Meath County Development Plan reflects this thankfully.

You want it for emotion, because you are obsessed with big roads.

You may not have noticed, but its not in Dublin, or the Greater Dublin Area either.

You keep trying to make fun of me for wanting better roads playing to to the gallery of anti-road posters on a roads forum.

I'm fully entitled to my view and we need better and sometimes bigger roads in the Dublin area.

It's supposed to be a "global" capital city yet it develops as if it's a little Sheffield in Ireland.

We need to think bigger in everything and get stuff done or we'll just be left behind.

No wonder the city has not benefited from Brexit like it should have. We are not building up all the infrastructure we need to make it attractive proposition.

That includes better roads.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You keep trying to make fun of me for wanting better roads playing to to the gallery of anti-road posters on a roads forum.

I'm fully entitled to my view and we need better and sometimes bigger roads in the Dublin area.

It's supposed to be a "global" capital city yet it develops as if it's a little Sheffield in Ireland.

We to think bigger in everything and get sh!t done or we'll just be left behind.

No wonder the city has not benefited from Brexit like it should have. We are not building up all the infrastructure we need to make it attractive proposition.

That includes better roads.

Nobody is making fun of you - they are pointing out that what you want is insane and never going to happen.

A motorway to a village that isn't and won't be a commuter town is not the infrastructural deficit that we need to address in Dublin.

And I suspect you wouldn't like any of it - as none of it is roads. Housing, Metro lines, Luas lines, park and rides, railcars, water treatment plants.

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

A motorway to a village that isn't and won't be a commuter town is not the infrastructural deficit that we need to address in Dublin.

Erm it's also the main cattle track to Derry :rolleyes:

It will be a commuter town, of course. That's the way cities develop.


40 years ago you would have been the very type of poster saying "no need for a motorway to Ashborne, it will never be a commuter town".

And like now you will have been wrong.

HonalD

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Taxpayers of course. Good investment too.

If I asked why taxpayers should fund something that isn’t justified and how it’s a “good investment”, without providing any analysis to back this up, could you answer without reverting to saying it’s common sense?

Kermit.de.frog

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Would a train not be a better idea?

No.

Need to provide a proper road first.

HonalD

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm fully entitled to my view and we need better and sometimes bigger roads in the Dublin area.

We need to think bigger in everything and get stuff done or we'll just be left behind.

No wonder the city has not benefited from Brexit like it should have. We are not building up all the infrastructure we need to make it attractive proposition.

That includes better roads.

Maybe I’m late to the party but:

1. You’re entitled to your view but you’re entitled to receive honest and critical commentary on the deficiencies of that view;
2. Left behind from what?
3. Who has ever said that Dublin should have “benefited from Brexit”? Are you aware of the negative economic effect Brexit is going to have on Ireland?

HonalD

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No.

Need to provide a proper road first.

Why is a motorway better than a train service?

The J Stands for Jay

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You keep trying to make fun of me for wanting better roads playing to to the gallery of anti-road posters on a roads forum.

I'm fully entitled to my view and we need better and sometimes bigger roads in the Dublin area.

It's supposed to be a "global" capital city yet it develops as if it's a little Sheffield in Ireland.

We need to think bigger in everything and get stuff done or we'll just be left behind.

No wonder the city has not benefited from Brexit like it should have. We are not building up all the infrastructure we need to make it attractive proposition.

That includes better roads.

Yes, that's why the roads should be improved in Dublin rather than in distant rural area like Slane.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Erm it's also the main cattle track to Derry :rolleyes:

It will be a commuter town, of course. That's the way cities develop.

40 years ago you would have been the very type of poster saying "no need for a motorway to Ashborne, it will never be a commuter town".

And like now you will have been wrong.

And Dublin-Derry traffic is negligible, as the AADT shows. The traffic on that road does not require motorway nor will it in the design life of the new road.

Commuter towns can't develop if they have no zoned land to do so - as I already said, there is very limited zoned land in Slane and no scope for any more either.

Ashbourne was already a commuter town 40 years ago.


You are letting an emotion override any modicum of sense and all facts. If we built roads to the insane standards you demand we wouldn't even have the motorways we have - we'd have run out of money about a quarter of the way there.

The J Stands for Jay

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Erm it's also the main cattle track to Derry :rolleyes:

It will be a commuter town, of course. That's the way cities develop.


40 years ago you would have been the very type of poster saying "no need for a motorway to Ashborne, it will never be a commuter town".

And like now you will have been wrong.

The main route used by most people to get from Dublin to Derry is to take the M1 and then get on to the N2 at Ardee. If you prefer motorway, it's as fast to go via Belfast and the glenshane pass.

bladespin

amcalester wrote: »

Better to build higher density housing in Dublin that roads that encourage people to move further away from their job.

Might be better to actually move some of the jobs away from the capital rather than strangling it more.