Small family business - too personal..

dartboardio

Opinions?

I worked for a small family cafe on and off for 2 years.. Casual cash in hand kinda thing.

The place where if you called in sick itd be a huge deal to find someone to cover etc. Everyones fairly tight knit.

Last february 18 about 10 hours before my shift was due to start I called in sick. Hadnt done so in a few months, the boss, who was looking after the place at the time was sick at home. There was other staff to cover but not without guilt tripping me first. (think writing in the group chat saying 'dartboardio was out drinking last night and she cannot come in'.. Then writing to me saying 'youd want to give the person who covered your shift a gift'

I went on holidays a few days later and the boss removed me from the group chat (my indication of.. You're fired) no problem. Ill stay away so, i thought.

Followed by lots of text msgs back and forth. 'you're selfish, you dont respect anyone' blah blah blah.
All this to a 19 year old girl just cause she called in sick for the first time in 5 months.

Now obviously there's no smoke without fire every once in a while id be half an hour late or so due to buses etc but then again that would be grand seen as id be doing work favours back too and working 14 days in a row with no days off etc

Anyway a real pity as obviously i was technically part of the work family and got on great with colleagues who were bestfriends and are bfs with the boss. Now i havent been into the cafe in a year and deliberately avoid going past as I do feel awkward which makes me look worse..

Now just seen the boss deleted me on facebook. A 45 year old manchild tbh.. I wish i was a bit more clever about working cash in hand there as when I left.. If i was on the books i would've been due a hefty holiday pay check as I had never got 1 paid holiday while working there (the joys of working for cash) and the cheeky bastard when I went to collect my p45 he had only registered me in January 18 and my cessation date was Feb 18 and gave me about thirty euro.

Should I feel guilty about losing those friends/that job? I always blame myself in these situations rather than thinking 'that person is a prick, hold your head high and walk past you should not have to feel uncomfortable or guilty'


One of the reasons i will never work for a small family business again. Things get way too personal.

Anyone have a similar experience?

I know i could probably go down the tax evasion report route but there'd be no benefit seen as I would be giving away the right to any benefits once agreeing to work for cash.

Sorry guys just really wanted to rant.

I suppose i constantly blame myself but reading back on the conversations i didnt do much wrong. This was supposed to be a professional man basically being a bully. 'i will only say hello from now on but please know i do not respect you' that kind of thing.

The most manipulative arrogant sexist fcuker i ever came across. The kind of guy who pays 25 year old women with children €6 an hour.

BrokenArrows

If you tried to go after them you would basically end up screwing yourself as you haven't paid tax.

As for the Facebook thing...why were you friends on fb with your ex boss who fired you and more importantly why do you care that he removed you?

Move on with your life.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Op there’s a better forum for this called Personal issues. aH will take the piss.

dartboardio

Thanks franz whoever can move it wherever they like!

As for taking the piss, go mad i'm just happy I got that out of my system.

Opinions?

Get over it.

There’s no such thing as a work family. You rang in sick before going on holidays and were late for work on occasion. That makes you unreliable and a bit of a pain in the hole for them to deal with.

You worked cash in hand and you were happy to do so. Bigger fool you were for doing it. Learn some lessons and get on with life.

How was the holiday?

dartboardio

BrokenArrows wrote: »

If you tried to go after them you would basically end up screwing yourself as you haven't paid tax.

As for the Facebook thing...why were you friends on fb with your ex boss who fired you and more importantly why do you care that he removed you?

Move on with your life.

Yep which is why I just stated I wouldn't be doing that.

Thats what I have been doing. I'm allowed to reflect and complain.

lalababa

Don't worry bout it. You were being put under a bit too much pressure re continuous days worked and the auld guilt tripping by a bit of a unprofessional manipulator.
Forget about the place, but remember to learn from the experience. That you have to stand up for yourself esp. for days off. You have to realise that there is a employer/employee trade off, where you have to stand up for yourself. Most employers will ride you if you let them.

dartboardio

JayZeus wrote: »

Opinions?

Get over it.

There’s no such thing as a work family. You rang in sick before going on holidays and were late for work on occasion. That makes you unreliable and a bit of a pain in the hole for them to deal with.

You worked cash in hand and you were happy to do so. Bigger fool you were for doing it. Learn some lessons and get on with life.

How was the holiday?

Oh, no, I am over it. But its pretty normal to want to have a think back or rant every so often.

Kill me for doing so!
Fantastic

Franz Von Peppercorn

dartboardio wrote: »

Oh, no, I am over it. But its pretty normal to want to have a think back or rant every so often.

Kill me for doing so!
Fantastic

Since you are staying here.

1) of course you can have a work family or close friends. Meet the others if not the boss.
2) don’t work for a small family shop again. They have small margins and it’s harder for employees to be sick or take holidays.

I know you already said 2 but I don’t see why you wouldn’t keep in contact with other employees.

wakka12

I wouldnt over think of it. Everyone has had some bad jobs in their early 20's and teens where they were treated unfairly, just learn from it and move on !

He seemed unduly harsh on you, Id say there was more to it maybe he wanted to cut some staff off and needed an excuse, I dont know, just from my point of view it looks like you were fired for very little reason. But of course he must have had some reason, just maybe not a very justifiable one, did you two usually get on well?

dartboardio

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Since you are staying here.

1) of course you can have a work family or close friends. Meet the others if not the boss.
2) don’t work for a small family shop again. They have small margins and it’s harder for employees to be sick or take holidays.

I know you already said 2 but I don’t see why you wouldn’t keep in contact with other employees.

I know yeah, weird though once i leave a place i tend to just cut the whole place and everyone in it off, without meaning to!

Sephiroth_dude

MOD



Please have a look at the Personal Issues charter before posting

wiggle16

Mod note:

Thanks Sephiroth_dude.

Some replies posted before this thread was moved from AH to PI have been deleted to comply with the PI charter and make the thread easier to read. If your post was deleted, apologies.

Thread reopened

wiggle16

Hi dartboardio

It sounds like the whole workplace was toxic, to be honest. Maybe you felt like a part of the "work-family", but the staff texting the boss to say you were sick (when he wasn't even there) and saying it was after a night's drinking, did not treat you like a part of the work family. That's pathetic, slíbhín, brown-nosing carry on from them and you are better off out of that environment. So I don't think you should see your departure as something to regret!

I can't stand employers who pay cash-in-hand like that because most staff don't realise they are being cheated out of their PRSI. But I won't say whether you should or shouldn't report him to Revenue, you had undeclared income from the job yourself and unfortunately by taking cash-in-hand you did yourself out of PRSI contributions. You can report to Revenue anonymously, which might be food for thought, but in your case you'd be reporting him for personal reasons rather than ethical ones (ie, your issue is with how you were treated, rather than his tax compliance), and I don't think it would make you feel any better.

My longest employment was eight years and I only truly realised after I left how badly I was treated and that bosses and managers do not have to be pr*cks, it's a choice they make to treat their staff poorly. I left on bad terms but learned a lot from it and it definitely made me a tougher person in the long run. It's sh*t that this happened to you, but you only learn from things like this. I would draw a line under it and move on.

And never, ever work 14 days in a row for anyone again! You will get no thanks for it - you could pull your boss out of a burning car, but it will be forgotten the minute you f*ck up at work. Don't let anyone exploit you like that.

dartboardio

Thanks for that. At the time it was a fun place to work - as long as you kept the boss extremely happy.

No, it was the boss himself that would write in the group chat like a child saying 'who will come to work for dartboardio as she was drunk lastnight and is too lazy to come in'

Yeah you're right its only when you think back you realise how things actually were.

Yeah the 14 day thing is funny alright. I was a student at the time and usually worked part time but for a couple of weeks i worked full time while i was off or studying etc and i remember when he gave me the roster i said 'only one day off after 14 days? Any chance of another one?' he replied 'you work 10 days usually a month round it up will ya'


Some people eh!

wiggle16

dartboardio wrote: »

'who will come to work for dartboardio as she was drunk lastnight and is too lazy to come in'
[.....]
i remember when he gave me the roster i said 'only one day off after 14 days? Any chance of another one?' he replied 'you work 10 days usually a month round it up will ya'

FFS. What a bell-end.

jarvinholmes

Yeah you're right its only when you think back you realise how things actually were.

shesty

Move on.
Chalk it up to experience for future roles too.No point in brooding over it - you are right in what you are saying and the guy behaved really badly, but don't let him take up your headspace too.

Hmm_Messiah

some of the practical info given here is not correct. If you were paid cash in hand, and could establish with NERA etc. that you were in fact an employee over that period then from a revenue point of view , the value you received would be seen as your Nett pay ( take home ) and it would now be the employer who is responsible to pay the paye/prsi etc that was due on your employment

It gets a little complicated so I won't go there her, but you could indeed follow that route if you feel mistreated

Communicating in whatsapp and viber etc is not really how to communicate in a work environment also

Also when I read it I assumed you meant it was a family business, and you were related to some degree.,. .. your idea of a work family scenario seems very naive to me but then maybe lesson learnt. your employment is a serious thing , and best always seen in a professional manner . While some work environments can be casual and relaxed I would always suggest you gently nudge anything related to performance and pay etc to a more professional , less emotive, less casual treatment

Wanderer2010

Family businesses can be the absolute pits to work for- and God help you if you also have to work with the son or daughter or wife of the boss because they can be entitled little sh!ts who make your work life hell, roll in late, take long lunches and blame every mistake on you. Worked for a family office for 2 years and I had to quit before I went insane. My mental health was more important than some money hungry imbecile who couldn't see what was under his eyes:

Expected to work late every day, expected to come in Saturdays at a moment notice. when I was a minute late in I got a lecture and yet his son could waltz in at 10am and nothing said. Framed for his sons mistakes, spoken to like crap, every single penny watched. Had to fight for an extra cent. Breaking point was when I was 5 mins late after visiting my sick brother over lunch, got yelled at and I said straight up "How come your son doesn't have to follow all the rules we have to?" and STARED at him. You would swear he was struck dumb and he looked at me like it was the weirdest thing anyone ever said to him. He couldn't even answer. I quit that day.

OP, your mental health is always more important than some job.

dartboardio

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

some of the practical info given here is not correct. If you were paid cash in hand, and could establish with NERA etc. that you were in fact an employee over that period then from a revenue point of view , the value you received would be seen as your Nett pay ( take home ) and it would now be the employer who is responsible to pay the paye/prsi etc that was due on your employment

It gets a little complicated so I won't go there her, but you could indeed follow that route if you feel mistreated

Communicating in whatsapp and viber etc is not really how to communicate in a work environment also

Also when I read it I assumed you meant it was a family business, and you were related to some degree.,. .. your idea of a work family scenario seems very naive to me but then maybe lesson learnt. your employment is a serious thing , and best always seen in a professional manner . While some work environments can be casual and relaxed I would always suggest you gently nudge anything related to performance and pay etc to a more professional , less emotive, less casual treatment

What i meant by work family is it was very close knit. Im a stand offish person and it would have been the boss himself who took the first step to being 'friends' like adding me and my boyfriend on facebook.. Began sending me my roster through facebook and whatsapp (unprofessional on his part I was 17 and it didn't make a difference to me).

I would have evidence in photos etc that would show me working there when I wasn't registered with revenue as working there. There were times where pay was deducted from my wages with no proof.

dartboardio

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Family businesses can be the absolute pits to work for- and God help you if you also have to work with the son or daughter or wife of the boss because they can be entitled little sh!ts who make your work life hell, roll in late, take long lunches and blame every mistake on you. Worked for a family office for 2 years and I had to quit before I went insane. My mental health was more important than some money hungry imbecile who couldn't see what was under his eyes:

Expected to work late every day, expected to come in Saturdays at a moment notice. when I was a minute late in I got a lecture and yet his son could waltz in at 10am and nothing said. Framed for his sons mistakes, spoken to like crap, every single penny watched. Had to fight for an extra cent. Breaking point was when I was 5 mins late after visiting my sick brother over lunch, got yelled at and I said straight up "How come your son doesn't have to follow all the rules we have to?" and STARED at him. You would swear he was struck dumb and he looked at me like it was the weirdest thing anyone ever said to him. He couldn't even answer. I quit that day.

OP, your mental health is always more important than some job.

Absolutely. I will never work for a family business again!

Yep.. Same as myself. Asked to do a random shift with only a couple of hours notice but then screamed at if you came in a few mins late.

The boss himself was a very hard working man and taught me alot but the wife was another story. She was useless and just stood around on her phone all day trying to give orders! Would make me walk after someone for 30 cent for the cream they had on the side with their scone!

dartboardio

Its not something ill probably go ahead with but I am just interested in how it all works.

If I had photographic and communication evidence that I was working there since 2016 yet on revenues record it looks like I was only there at the beginning of 2018.. Do i have any leg to stand on?

Also, if my employer removed me from a work group chat indicating I am fired, then claimed he never stated I was, but I had proof that the cessation date was the date he removed me from the workplace chat with no prior warning or indication, do I have any leg to stand on?

Basically on Revenues records it looks like my gross pay for this employment was €600 or similar when really it would've been alot more than that just under the table.

Neyite

Take it as the learning experience that it was. You learned:
The pitfalls of blurred boundaries between work and your personal life. Next time think long and hard before adding work friends and bosses to your social media, and also what they can view on your profile. (hint, nothing!)

The pitfalls of working off the books - in this case you've no prsi, work record, and were diddled out of holiday pay. The next time you'll make sure that an employer is tax compliant and adheres to basic employee rights.
You've learned that lack of punctuality is not negated by flexibility. When employers mean they want flexibility what they mean is that they want you there on time, and want you to work overtime at the drop of a hat. Whether an employer is flexible back is dependent on them.

You've learned that regardless of how close you are to your boss or colleagues, you aren't family. You aren't even friends really. An employee would fire you in the morning if you are non-performing or if the business needs dictated it. And your colleagues will always look out for themselves.


All in all it's a pretty good learning experience for you for your next, better job.

Paddy Cow

dartboardio wrote: »

Its not something ill probably go ahead with but I am just interested in how it all works.

If I had photographic and communication evidence that I was working there since 2016 yet on revenues record it looks like I was only there at the beginning of 2018.. Do i have any leg to stand on?

Also, if my employer removed me from a work group chat indicating I am fired, then claimed he never stated I was, but I had proof that the cessation date was the date he removed me from the workplace chat with no prior warning or indication, do I have any leg to stand on?

Basically on Revenues records it looks like my gross pay for this employment was €600 or similar when really it would've been alot more than that just under the table.

Have you ever heard the expression "Before you set out on a path of revenge, dig two graves"? You don't have a leg to stand on. You knew you were working under the table and you are not a minor. You need to let this go. It's not healthy to be this invested so long after you left. It was a crappy part time job in a cafe. It shouldn't bother you in the slightest that your ex boss deleted you off facebook. It's something you should have done a year ago. Seriously, move on.

dartboardio

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Have you ever heard the expression "Before you set out on a path of revenge, dig two graves"? You don't have a leg to stand on. You knew you were working under the table and you are not a minor. You need to let this go. It's not healthy to be this invested so long after you left. It was a crappy part time job in a cafe. It shouldn't bother you in the slightest that your ex boss deleted you off facebook. It's something you should have done a year ago. Seriously, move on.

The parties over here, buddy!

SAMTALK

I work for a family run business and boy is it hard !
They want every last drop of blood but I come in on time and leave on time.

I don't get paid overtime so not a hope of staying late. They dont' supply their goods for free so why should I ?

Most days I have to bit my tongue and just think of the pay check .

Oink

You’re only 19, so put it on the list of things you have learnt so far.
You’ve learnt something about having a job, having colleagues and friends.Some lessons are more pleasant than others.
It’ll be easier next time!

It stressful right now but it’ll pass. Also, you’ve made some money and they can’t take that back.

Now on to your next job, good luck!

dartboardio

Oink wrote: »

You’re only 19, so put it on the list of things you have learnt so far.
You’ve learnt something about having a job, having colleagues and friends.Some lessons are more pleasant than others.
It’ll be easier next time!

It stressful right now but it’ll pass. Also, you’ve made some money and they can’t take that back.

Now on to your next job, good luck!

Thanks very much.
Yeah absolutely best to pass it off as a lesson learned rather than an inconvenience or letting it affect me emotionally..

Enjoying the perks of working in a structured proper workplace now. Paid and unpaid holidays.. Proper scheduled time off.. Paid for not working bank Holidays.. Nothing like it!

Paddy Cow

SAMTALK wrote: »

I work for a family run business and boy is it hard !
They want every last drop of blood but I come in on time and leave on time.

I don't get paid overtime so not a hope of staying late. They dont' supply their goods for free so why should I ?

Most days I have to bit my tongue and just think of the pay check .

I've worked for small family business's before and the problem is, they treat you like family when they want a favour ie working late, coming in at short notice etc but when you need a favour they don't want to know! You're only "family" when it works to their advantage