Opt Out of Statutory Certification - BER Certification

kev1234

Hi,

I'm completing an extension and have opted out of Statutory Certification. I'm wondering does this affect getting the house BER assessed when the works are complete? Or if the details of all building elements, insulation etc. are provided are these accepted by the assessor as being what was installed? Just curious how this works if for example a particular product is installed but is no longer visible for inspection when the assessor completes the survey?

I'm keeping records and certs of everything as we progress, is that sufficient?

Also I know that all works must comply with the Building Regulations regardless of the Opt Out of Statutory Certfication process but how can this be proved at a later date? If we go to sell the house in the future do we need to prove the works complied with the Regs and how can this be done if Opt Out was chosen?

Gumbo

BER cert is not required for an extension unless your getting a grant etc

Photos won’t suffice to an assessor at s later date. You would need to engage the assessor now and have him inspect during the build so he can see what’s going on and photo it and report it.

Not many, if any assessors will issue a BER cert at a later date based on photos from the home owner as they then have to stand over them in an audit which happens very regularly by the SEAI.

Engage someone now to over see, inspect and issue cert of compliance.

sydthebeat

kev1234 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm completing an extension and have opted out of Statutory Certification. I'm wondering does this affect getting the house BER assessed when the works are complete??

any BER requirement is separate to the BCARS, which the "opt out" choice is part of... so in essence they have nothing to do with each other.

kev1234 wrote: »

Or if the details of all building elements, insulation etc. are provided are these accepted by the assessor as being what was installed? Just curious how this works if for example a particular product is installed but is no longer visible for inspection when the assessor completes the survey?

I'm keeping records and certs of everything as we progress, is that sufficient?

very good that your doing that, as that could be used as proof of works that are covered up when the assessor comes to do their survey.
They STILL have to do an on site survey after the works are complete though.

document everything with photographs, measurements and invoices / receipts

kev1234 wrote: »

Hi,
Also I know that all works must comply with the Building Regulations regardless of the Opt Out of Statutory Certification process but how can this be proved at a later date?

it can be proven by you engaging someone to inspect the works frequently during the build and state in documentation on completion that, in their opinion, the works are in substantial compliance with building regulations.

kev1234 wrote: »

If we go to sell the house in the future do we need to prove the works complied with the Regs and how can this be done if Opt Out was chosen?

thats the economic cost of opting out.

'opting in' is that de facto proof

kev1234

Thanks for both replies, although there seems to be a bit of contradiction in the two responses in relation to whether there is value in documenting and photographing everything during the build:

Kceire:
"Photos won’t suffice to an assessor at a later date. You would need to engage the assessor now and have him inspect during the build so he can see what’s going on and photo it and report it."

I find that hard to believe, aren't BER assessments completed all the time on existing buildings without the assessor having been present during the build?

I understand that the assessor would need to come to site after the works as part of their assessment but surely not required out to inspect during the build?

sydthebeat

kev1234 wrote: »

Thanks for both replies, although there seems to be a bit of contradiction in the two responses in relation to whether there is value in documenting and photographing everything during the build:

Kceire:
"Photos won’t suffice to an assessor at a later date. You would need to engage the assessor now and have him inspect during the build so he can see what’s going on and photo it and report it."

I find that hard to believe, aren't BER assessments completed all the time on existing buildings without the assessor having been present during the build?

I understand that the assessor would need to come to site after the works as part of their assessment but surely not required out to inspect during the build?

If the photos show
A: the exact product being used
B: the exact thickness / measurement of product
C: exactly where the product is used

Then they would suffice.

However I've yet to see a homeowner who had that level of record with their pics.
That's why other documentation such as invoices, receipts etc are required.... Which would show quantities etc.

A ber assessor would generally only go to survey at the end, unless they had some other engagement during the build... Like providing a preliminary report as to what spec would result in what rating etc

Gumbo

kev1234 wrote: »

Thanks for both replies, although there seems to be a bit of contradiction in the two responses in relation to whether there is value in documenting and photographing everything during the build:

Kceire:
"Photos won’t suffice to an assessor at a later date. You would need to engage the assessor now and have him inspect during the build so he can see what’s going on and photo it and report it."

I find that hard to believe, aren't BER assessments completed all the time on existing buildings without the assessor having been present during the build?

I understand that the assessor would need to come to site after the works as part of their assessment but surely not required out to inspect during the build?

Yes, the assessor can still carry out the BER but, he will use the default figures. In most cases the default figures will not be as good as if you can itemized the materials used and work it out exactly and therefore get a better BER rating.

kev1234

Thanks both, that clarifies things for me on the BER. I will keep as detailed records as I can anyway of everything throughout the build and see if that helps and just engage an assessor towards the end of the build.

If selling the house in the future, would having gone with the Opt out strategy and not having Certs of Compliance with the Regs likely be an issue or again will a detailed record of the works be sufficient? I presume house sales can proceed without the Certs given that the Opt out option is even available?

My Structural Engineer will be completing certs of compliance covering part A- Structure and part H-Drainage.

Gumbo

kev1234 wrote: »

Thanks both, that clarifies things for me on the BER. I will keep as detailed records as I can anyway of everything throughout the build and see if that helps and just engage an assessor towards the end of the build.

At least talk to some now and make sure they will come in at the end and use your photos etc for an accurate rating.

kev1234 wrote: »

If selling the house in the future, would having gone with the Opt out strategy and not having Certs of Compliance with the Regs likely be an issue or again will a detailed record of the works be sufficient? I presume house sales can proceed without the Certs given that the Opt out option is even available?

No, you will still need compliance certs to sell in the future. That's why its easier and more important to get them now, during the build.

kev1234 wrote: »

My Structural Engineer will be completing certs of compliance covering part A- Structure and part H-Drainage.

Piece meal certification, why not the rest?

kev1234

kceire wrote: »

At least talk to some now and make sure they will come in at the end and use your photos etc for an accurate rating.



No, you will still need compliance certs to sell in the future. That's why its easier and more important to get them now, during the build.


Piece meal certification, why not the rest?

Ok thanks, so who can inspect and issue compliance certs for the build? Does it need to be an architect or can an Engineer complete this role? Do they need to have a certain qualification or accreditation?

I know the BCAR requires architects registered RIAI, a chartered building surveyor, or a chartered engineer. Is it the same for the Opt Out approach if you want compliance certs for future sale? Would a qualified engineer/surveyor, not chartered, be able to fulfil the role?

Gumbo

kev1234 wrote: »

Ok thanks, so who can inspect and issue compliance certs for the build? Does it need to be an architect or can an Engineer complete this role? Do they need to have a certain qualification or accreditation?

I know the BCAR requires architects registered RIAI, a chartered building surveyor, or a chartered engineer. Is it the same for the Opt Out approach if you want compliance certs for future sale? Would a qualified engineer/surveyor, not chartered, be able to fulfil the role?

Registered Architect
Registered Building Surveyor
Chartered Engineer
Technologist/Technician with the required PI and insurances

kev1234

kceire wrote: »

Registered Architect
Registered Building Surveyor
Chartered Engineer
Technologist/Technician with the required PI and insurances

Great thanks very much.