New driver: numbers great in the shop but seems to travel less on course

kennethrhcp

Hi lads, a bit of an odd one (imo). I brought my old cobra f speed in when I was getting fitted for a new driver in Jan... cobra was carrying 262yrds avg & the Titleist TS2 was carrying 280yrds avg.

I left it a little bit as was unsure I wanted to spend the money on it, went in a 2nd time & again cobra was around 262/265 & the TS2 was around 272/275... decided I'd go with it as numbers all looked great.

on course now with friends who I was up with or longer than with the cobra but I'm finding myself pretty far back at times (20/30yrds) & even after catching a decent drive with the wind behind me I landed in a bunker I was always carrying with no wind assistance. My friend cleared it no bother.

have any of ye had this happen to ye? expectation or longer drives & numbers backing it up in store in comparison to less yards on the course?

ShivasIrons

kennethrhcp wrote: »

Hi lads, a bit of an odd one (imo). I brought my old cobra f speed in when I was getting fitted for a new driver in Jan... cobra was carrying 262yrds avg & the Titleist TS2 was carrying 280yrds avg.

I left it a little bit as was unsure I wanted to spend the money on it, went in a 2nd time & again cobra was around 262/265 & the TS2 was around 272/275... decided I'd go with it as numbers all looked great.

on course now with friends who I was up with or longer than with the cobra but I'm finding myself pretty far back at times (20/30yrds) & even after catching a decent drive with the wind behind me I landed in a bunker I was always carrying with no wind assistance. My friend cleared it no bother.

have any of ye had this happen to ye? expectation or longer drives & numbers backing it up in store in comparison to less yards on the course?

Get fitted outdoors. You play outdoors not in a shop, why wouldn't you get fitted outdoors?

kennethrhcp

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Get fitted outdoors. You play outdoors not in a shop, why wouldn't you get fitted outdoors?

because I had a voucher to AG... you saying everyone gets fitted outdoors? to me that would be a rare thing.

Mundo7976

Go back to store and try your club on the test mat?

kennethrhcp

Mundo7976 wrote: »

Go back to store and try your club on the test mat?

Club might be faulty or something? I did need to order it in & it came a week later.

golfguy1

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Get fitted outdoors. You play outdoors not in a shop, why wouldn't you get fitted outdoors?

And what difference would that make??

slave1

You can see where you currently drive to from the balls on the ground and then see where the new ones drive to

ShivasIrons

golfguy1 wrote: »

And what difference would that make??

Indoors is being hit into a net and the ball flight is being estimated using an algorithm, outside the flight of the ball is tracked and you get the actual distance the ball went on the conditions of the day too.

ShriekingSheet

In the factories, because the manufacturers are trying to skirt as close to legality as possible, drivers of the exact same model come out with a variety of "hot" or "not so hot" faces.

All are tested, so some are rejected for being so hot that they are illegal. These might be marked "black". Others are on the edge of legality and these are marked "green". Less powerful faces will be marked "amber" and "red", in declining order of speed in the measuring machines.

The "green" heads are mainly sent to the tour vans and to retail for fitting - I don't need to explain why, I'm sure.

So in general, what you get when you buy a driver is more likely to be an "amber" or "red" head. If there genuinely is a dramatic difference, it could be the difference between a very hot demo club and a less powerful "red" one.

But you also have to factor in subjective/human error here. ie: your friend could have gotten longer / improved technique. You could have done the opposite. Conditions etc. You might think all things are remaining equal, but there's usually some perception error involved.

The best thing to do is go back and try your club on the same monitor and see what the number say. Try their demo again beside it while you're at it. Then you'll have some reasonable evidence. Maybe the demo was a better fit for you, for example.

ShivasIrons

kennethrhcp wrote: »

because I had a voucher to AG... you saying everyone gets fitted outdoors? to me that would be a rare thing.

Let use a pair of football boots as an example, you can get the right size easily in a store but you need to use them on a pitch to see how they work in real life situations. It's the same for hitting a golf ball into a net or simulator. It's not how you play the game, why would you get fitted that way?

mighty magpie

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

In the factories, because the manufacturers are trying to skirt as close to legality as possible, drivers of the exact same model come out with a variety of "hot" or "not so hot" faces.

All are tested, so some are rejected for being so hot that they are illegal. These might be marked "black". Others are on the edge of legality and these are marked "green". Less powerful faces will be marked "amber" and "red", in declining order of speed in the measuring machines.

The "green" heads are mainly sent to the tour vans and to retail for fitting - I don't need to explain why, I'm sure.

So in general, what you get when you buy a driver is more likely to be an "amber" or "red" head. If there genuinely is a dramatic difference, it could be the difference between a very hot demo club and a less powerful "red" one.

But you also have to factor in subjective/human error here. ie: your friend could have gotten longer / improved technique. You could have done the opposite. Conditions etc. You might think all things are remaining equal, but there's usually some perception error involved.

The best thing to do is go back and try your club on the same monitor and see what the number say. Try their demo again beside it while you're at it. Then you'll have some reasonable evidence. Maybe the demo was a better fit for you, for example.

What sort of difference in ball speed / smash factor between green and red?

Montgolfier

ShivasIrons wrote: »

golfguy1 wrote: »

And what difference would that make??

Indoors is being hit into a net and the ball flight is being estimated using an algorithm, outside the flight of the ball is tracked and you get the actual distance the ball went on the conditions of the day too.

Is outdoors any better? Trackman only measures 2/3 of the ball flight also it can change conditions on the software. Your using range balls normally. My advice is buy a new driver if you like the look and feel don't believe all you see in a fitting. In general people who see an impact screen in front of them swing harder.

kennethrhcp

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Let use a pair of football boots as an example, you can get the right size easily in a store but you need to use them on a pitch to see how they work in real life situations. It's the same for hitting a golf ball into a net or simulator. It's not how you play the game, why would you get fitted that way?

I didn't question if it was better to get fitted outdoors... I've no doubt it is. I just said it'd be rarer in my reply to your 1st post.

you don't try out football boots outdoors before purchase tho

thanks for your replies but it's a little off track on my question. I've been fitted... indoors & now I've a specific query on that. I get you opinion on get fitted outdoors but irrelevant to my Q

kennethrhcp

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

In the factories, because the manufacturers are trying to skirt as close to legality as possible, drivers of the exact same model come out with a variety of "hot" or "not so hot" faces.

All are tested, so some are rejected for being so hot that they are illegal. These might be marked "black". Others are on the edge of legality and these are marked "green". Less powerful faces will be marked "amber" and "red", in declining order of speed in the measuring machines.

The "green" heads are mainly sent to the tour vans and to retail for fitting - I don't need to explain why, I'm sure.

So in general, what you get when you buy a driver is more likely to be an "amber" or "red" head. If there genuinely is a dramatic difference, it could be the difference between a very hot demo club and a less powerful "red" one.

But you also have to factor in subjective/human error here. ie: your friend could have gotten longer / improved technique. You could have done the opposite. Conditions etc. You might think all things are remaining equal, but there's usually some perception error involved.

The best thing to do is go back and try your club on the same monitor and see what the number say. Try their demo again beside it while you're at it. Then you'll have some reasonable evidence. Maybe the demo was a better fit for you, for example.

thanks for this!!! didn't know that

ShivasIrons

Montgolfier wrote: »

Is outdoors any better? Trackman only measures 2/3 of the ball flight also it can change conditions on the software. Your using range balls normally. My advice is buy a new driver if you like the look and feel don't believe all you see in a fitting. In general people who see an impact screen in front of them swing harder.

Trackman tracks the whole flight of the carry of the ball

ShivasIrons

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

In the factories, because the manufacturers are trying to skirt as close to legality as possible, drivers of the exact same model come out with a variety of "hot" or "not so hot" faces.

All are tested, so some are rejected for being so hot that they are illegal. These might be marked "black". Others are on the edge of legality and these are marked "green". Less powerful faces will be marked "amber" and "red", in declining order of speed in the measuring machines.

The "green" heads are mainly sent to the tour vans and to retail for fitting - I don't need to explain why, I'm sure.

So in general, what you get when you buy a driver is more likely to be an "amber" or "red" head. If there genuinely is a dramatic difference, it could be the difference between a very hot demo club and a less powerful "red" one.

But you also have to factor in subjective/human error here. ie: your friend could have gotten longer / improved technique. You could have done the opposite. Conditions etc. You might think all things are remaining equal, but there's usually some perception error involved.

The best thing to do is go back and try your club on the same monitor and see what the number say. Try their demo again beside it while you're at it. Then you'll have some reasonable evidence. Maybe the demo was a better fit for you, for example.

It's much less likely to see hot faces on Tour, hot faces break quicker. Wouldn't be great for a Tour pro to be cracking the face of a driver during a tournament

ShivasIrons

kennethrhcp wrote: »

I didn't question if it was better to get fitted outdoors... I've no doubt it is. I just said it'd be rarer in my reply to your 1st post.

you don't try out football boots outdoors before purchase tho

thanks for your replies but it's a little off track on my question. I've been fitted... indoors & now I've a specific query on that. I get you opinion on get fitted outdoors but irrelevant to my Q

The indoor numbers can be questioned, the outdoor flight can be seen. The question you should be asking is about the indoor numbers and assuming that these numbers will translate to the same outdoors, they clearly haven't in your situation

kennethrhcp

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The indoor numbers can be questioned, the outdoor flight can be seen. The question you should be asking is about the indoor numbers and assuming that these numbers will translate to the same outdoors, they clearly haven't in your situation

not trying to get into a back & forth here... let's just say yes I should have got fitted outdoors & move on.

I'm looking to go back on track to my OP... anyone had this experience of great numbers in store & a lot less than expected on course

ShivasIrons

kennethrhcp wrote: »

not trying to get into a back & forth here... let's just say yes I should have got fitted outdoors & move on.

I'm looking to go back on track to my OP... anyone had this experience of great numbers in store & a lot less than expected on course

Do you not see what I'm saying, the numbers indoors are incorrect?

kennethrhcp

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Do you not see what I'm saying, the numbers indoors are incorrect?

it's looking that way. I get that! thank you again. I can only ask that we stop this back & forth once more. You've made your opinion very clear but it's not what i'm after. I shoulda got fitted out door... gothcha… understood. I did not & I am where I am.

I'm looking to see if anyone else found this when they got fitted & then if/when someone replies they've had the same experience I can get into discussion with them.

dan_ep82

Normalized numbers?
If you got your report emailed to you there should be a check box at the bottom to un normalize ( this bring temps back from optimum) and generally lower the numbers.

Tee height difference? Could effect angle of attack so launch and spin could change

Could have been all out on the sim as well, hitting drive after drive your confidence will grow and you'll smash it harder.

golfguy1

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Do you not see what I'm saying, the numbers indoors are incorrect?

So your saying all of us(and that's lots) who got fitted indoors were all getting wrong numbers

ShivasIrons

golfguy1 wrote: »

So your saying all of us(and that's lots) who got fitted indoors were all getting wrong numbers

Mats give different launch angles and spin rates then grass so that can change things, also as mentioned earlier the normalised feature on Trackman gives distances at 25 degrees and no wind.


You just need to know what different machines measure and what they estimate and indoors distances are not being measured

golfguy1

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Mats give different launch angles and spin rates then grass so that can change things, also as mentioned earlier the normalised feature on Trackman gives distances at 25 degrees and no wind.


You just need to know what different machines measure and what they estimate and indoors distances are not being measured

No matter what way trackman was setup the op should still have seen an improvement outdoors matching/very close to what the numbers gave him indoors compared to his old driver

kennethrhcp

golfguy1 wrote: »

No matter what way trackman was setup the op should still have seen an improvement outdoors matching/very close to what the numbers gave him indoors compared to his old driver

this is my issue, I know where my old club carries on course so when the trackman told me in store that was 262 & the new club was a fair bit more I assumed that even if the numbers were off then they'd be off in old & new but new would still carry more (I hope that makes sense)

Just rereading comments, the friend I was judging off; we played maybe 3 weeks in between rounds with my old driver vs new one. it's not like it was months of a difference & massive changes in our games (he's off 4 me 7)

I can give you my experience with irons. Got fitted about 5 years ago for a set of Titliests. Stiff shafts, upgrade grips etc. Could not miss on the mat in the shop, every iron felt fantastic to hit. Spent a year trying to reproduce those indoor shots, never did, now they are in my shed and used by visitors. Got fitted for a set of pings (yes I know, completely different type of head) but this time I was outside on a range when I tried them. Of course the ground/wind is different and I could see the flight of the ball each time I hit. I hooked a few, faded a few etc, but distances averaged what I would expect to hit based on prior performance.

Op, you used an anology of a boot, kicking a ball indoor and outdoors with the same boot will give different results.

Montgolfier

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Montgolfier wrote: »

Is outdoors any better? Trackman only measures 2/3 of the ball flight also it can change conditions on the software. Your using range balls normally. My advice is buy a new driver if you like the look and feel don't believe all you see in a fitting. In general people who see an impact screen in front of them swing harder.

Trackman tracks the whole flight of the carry of the ball

If it tracks the whole flight why does it need to normalise numbers? Plus it's tracking a range ball will that be normalised to a pro v1? Or air density (just throwing that one in for a laugh). Carry don't mind me.

kennethrhcp

Dav010 wrote: »

I can give you my experience with irons. Got fitted about 5 years ago for a set of Titliests. Stiff shafts, upgrade grips etc. Could not miss on the mat in the shop, every iron felt fantastic to hit. Spent a year trying to reproduce those indoor shots, never did, now they are in my shed and used by visitors. Got fitted for a set of pings (yes I know, completely different type of head) but this time I was outside on a range when I tried them. Of course the ground/wind is different and I could see the flight of the ball each time I hit. I hooked a few, faded a few etc, but distances averaged what I would expect to hit based on prior performance.

Op, you used an anology of a boot, kicking a ball indoor and outdoors with the same boot will give different results.

cheers for the reply. I do get indoor vs outdoor fitting but new a fair bit shorter than old seems odd after the numbers I was seeing. I get it might just have been in optimal setting it carried more.

the boot was not my analogy! I replied to said analogy

kennethrhcp

i'm gonna hit the range with both clubs, head to my club pro who has trackman & use prov1s like on course... i'll see how I feel in a few weeks & if it's just not suiting me... someone might get a new enough ts2 a bit cheaper than in store on adverts

eagle eye

Is the shaft the same as what you want see in the shop?

golfguy1

kennethrhcp wrote: »

i'm gonna hit the range with both clubs, head to my club pro who has trackman & use prov1s like on course... i'll see how I feel in a few weeks & if it's just not suiting me... someone might get a new enough ts2 a bit cheaper than in store on adverts

Just double check that shaft is exactly same as was ordered and settings on driver are correct.
Errors can be made when ordering specifics with shafts.
Can't think of any other explanation for difference in preformance

Bottle

Would you consider bringing it back to where you bought it and have a chat with the club fitter. I got a set of TM irons last year, took an age to come in and when they did the numbers on the course and with the fitter were all over the place. Club fitter got onto TM and they offered a replacement set and no further questions asked. I went for a different configuration and the new set worked out great.

kennethrhcp

eagle eye wrote: »

Is the shaft the same as what you want see in the shop?

ya it is

kennethrhcp

Bottle wrote: »

Would you consider bringing it back to where you bought it and have a chat with the club fitter. I got a set of TM irons last year, took an age to come in and when they did the numbers on the course and with the fitter were all over the place. Club fitter got onto TM and they offered a replacement set and no further questions asked. I went for a different configuration and the new set worked out great.

I actually know the fella in the shop and he's a coach aswell as working in ag. I'll get in touch with him alright. thanks for the reply and advice!

Golfhead65

kennethrhcp wrote: »

I actually know the fella in the shop and he's a coach aswell as working in ag. I'll get in touch with him alright. thanks for the reply and advice!

Hope it's not AG in Tallaght as that's closed down

Kingswood Rover

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Hope it's not AG in Tallaght as that's closed down

Whaaat i was going to call in there before the match on Friday, when did that happen.

kennethrhcp

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Hope it's not AG in Tallaght as that's closed down

Cork so all good there.

golfguy1

kennethrhcp wrote: »

Cork so all good there.

Galway closed.
Tallaght closed.
Wouldn't be so sure about cork.

dan_ep82

As side note I seen Halpenny golf are using GC Quad now which seems to be the industry favourite for accurate numbers.

kennethrhcp

dan_ep82 wrote: »

As side note I seen Halpenny golf are using GC Quad now which seems to be the industry favourite for accurate numbers.

talking of closures above, Halpenny closed in Cork. Rent increases I think were the issue

Golfhead65

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Whaaat i was going to call in there before the match on Friday, when did that happen.

Last Thursday I believe, I was in Halpenny in Lucan yesterday and met Ciaran who was in AG Tallaght although he is gone awhile now, he said he seen the writing on the wall and got out

Mantis Toboggan

That's a balls about the AG store in Tallaght, surprised it was a good store and always seemed to be a few people in there.