Playground surface

CarPark2

I have a patch of ground beside the house that is really poor draining. It is macamore soil, so the closest thing I can describe it to is potters clay. I would like to locate a swing set, climbing frame etc. in the area, but in winter, it is completely waterlogged. There is a stream at the end of the garden. I had the idea that if we got a playground surface laid on the area, with a slight slope, all of the rain water would flow over the surface, we would collect it in a drain at the end of the playground surface and pipe it down to the stream.

Has anybody had a playground surface fitted? Any recommendations of suppliers?

Calahonda52

The stream may be causing the water table to be so high.
Need some feel for elevation differentials and distances for suitable falls.
Can you get a digger in?
I would dig it out and put in a crushed stone fill, I don't thing using land drain pipes would work.
What I have done before for clients is the crushed stone fill, with a 12" vertical land drain as a sump, which you can drop down a submersible pump if the need arises. The last one was 2 cubic meters with two sumps, works great
the 12" gives more surface area and ease of cleaning out the hole if needed

CarPark2

Calahonda52 wrote: »

The stream may be causing the water table to be so high.
Need some feel for elevation differentials and distances for suitable falls.
Can you get a digger in?
I would dig it out and put in a crushed stone fill, I don't thing using land drain pipes would work.
What I have done before for clients is the crushed stone fill, with a 12" vertical land drain as a sump, which you can drop down a submersible pump if the need arises. The last one was 2 cubic meters with two sumps, works great
the 12" gives more surface area and ease of cleaning out the hole if needed

Thanks for responding.
I don’t have the exact measurements, but
The stream is about 100 meters from the area
The stream is downhill from the area (it is not a steep hill, but the stream is significantly lower than this area)
It is hard to overstate how impermeable this clay is.
My idea was to have the area sloped with a long drain at the end of it and a pipe from the drain (underground) to the stream.
Would that work?

Calahonda52

If the clay is as impermeable as you say, then IMO, it it best taken out, maybe not as much as I said earlier.

The other idea is could you raise the area, by maybe 4" in a timber frame of crushed stone?
Any chance of some picture?
100m a long way for a pipe/trench

CarPark2

Thanks for responses and sorry for delay in getting back. It is hard to get photos by the time I get back in the evening.
Some photos attached here now.
It is a roughly square area beside the house with an oil tank in the corner. I plan to fence off the oil tank and also put the bins behind the fence.
You can see that the ground is still holding the water from rain last weekend.
If I was to remove and replace the soil, what depth would I have to remove to? I have previously gone down three feet and it is still the same soil type.
Given the probable expense, my thought is to cover with a non-permeable later, with a slight slope and to collect the rainwater in a drain at the end and pipe to the nearby stream (which is downhill from this area). Is there a reason that wouldn’t work? I took a photo to show the slope to the stream. It looks steeper in real life! It is about 45 m from this area to the stream.
Thanks in advance.

CarPark2

Photo of slope

CarPark2

Area

CarPark2

Water logged area

listermint

Tbh, i am not seeing sitting water. nor am i seeing evidence of water logged. There isnt vegetation there that would associate with bad drainage.

Have you tried cutting down the grass somewhat and aerating the soil manually . We have just come out of quite a wed period of the last 2 weeks so i would not hold that up as evidence of general water problems.

CarPark2

Sorry, the photos showing the water logged areas were too big to upload. I had to edit them to reduce the size and it took a while to figure out how to do that. See attached now.

CarPark2

and here.......

CarPark2

It is macamore soil which is very common in Wexford and known to be extremely poor draining. The area is waterlogged all winter. In summer it gets extremely dry and even cracks.

listermint

Appears to have a heavy clay content ?

CarPark2

Yes.

From Teagasc:
Macamore Association
The soils of this association extend in a 4–5 mile wide strip along the east coast of the county (wexford) from the north-eastern extremity to Kilmuckridge and again from Curracloe to a line south of Rosslare, close to Greenore Point.
The Macamore soils occupy 9.01 per cent (52,050 acres) of the county. The parent material consists of dense, calcareous, marine muds and oozes which were removed from the bed of the Irish Sea and deposited inland by ice of Saale Age. The area is relatively low-lying, ranging from 100 to 250 feet O.D. The topography is flat or gently undulating.
Macamore Series:
The soils of this series which are of sandy loam to sandy clay loam texture
and of medium base status have been classified as low-humic podzolic Gleys. The profile is characterised by a dark greyish-brown surface horizon of sandy loam to sandy clay loam texture with deeper horizons of ‘heavier’ texture which are generally grey and strongly mottled. The weak structure throughout the profile, and the ‘heavy’ texture of the sub-soil are mainly responsible for the poor drainage of these soils. Because of this, they are considered as surface-water Gleys. Poor drainage is evident even on favourable slopes which usually, in the unimproved state, carry rush (Juncus) dominated pastures.


See also here: http://www.forum4farming.com/forum/index.php?threads/wexford-soil.12520/

Calahonda52

listermint wrote: »

Tbh, i am not seeing sitting water. nor am i seeing evidence of water logged. There isnt vegetation there that would associate with bad drainage.

Have you tried cutting down the grass somewhat and aerating the soil manually . We have just come out of quite a wed period of the last 2 weeks so i would not hold that up as evidence of general water problems.

Did you zoom in and see the rushes?
Wit side access like this, and so much room on site I would dig it out as described earlier,
run a land drain from the sump down to the stream and loose the dug out clay along the far hedge

CarPark2

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Did you zoom in and see the rushes?
Wit side access like this, and so much room on site I would dig it out as described earlier,
run a land drain from the sump down to the stream and loose the dug out clay along the far hedge

Is that a job for a landscape gardener or a builder or who?

Calahonda52

CarPark2 wrote: »

Is that a job for a landscape gardener or a builder or who?

Builder with a decent digger.
You need to limit where he can go on the site when spreading the clay so as he does not trash the grass completely.

40cm deep should do you with the decent slope to the stream.
You mention that the soil dries out in summer so if he digs too close to the oil tank it may shift a bit,
Oil tank looks level, often better to slope them back a bit from the outlet so reduce risk of sludge choking the outlet

CarPark2

Thanks for that.

CarPark2

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Builder with a decent digger.
You need to limit where he can go on the site when spreading the clay so as he does not trash the grass completely.

40cm deep should do you with the decent slope to the stream.
You mention that the soil dries out in summer so if he digs too close to the oil tank it may shift a bit,
Oil tank looks level, often better to slope them back a bit from the outlet so reduce risk of sludge choking the outlet

Thanks for your help.
A few questions;
1. Would I just put the playground surface on top of the crushed rock? Even in well drained areas the grass under a swing set tends to end up worn away.
2. Given the soil is so bad, would I be better just getting it taken away? Or would that be very expensive?
3. I already have a swing set that has a really good steel frame, slide etc., but the wooden bits are rotting. What are the chances of getting somebody to move it and replace the wood? What are the chances of that being the same person that does the drainage?
4. As this ground is right beside the house (timber frame), is the digging likely to damage foundations?

Calahonda52

CarPark2 wrote: »

Thanks for your help.
A few questions;
1. Would I just put the playground surface on top of the crushed rock? Even in well drained areas the grass under a swing set tends to end up worn away.
2. Given the soil is so bad, would I be better just getting it taken away? Or would that be very expensive?
3. I already have a swing set that has a really good steel frame, slide etc., but the wooden bits are rotting. What are the chances of getting somebody to move it and replace the wood? What are the chances of that being the same person that does the drainage?
4. As this ground is right beside the house (timber frame), is the digging likely to damage foundations?

1: You will need a layer of Terram or similar on top of the rock to stop the blinding filling the gaps.
2: Yes,m better to dump it but landfill becoming an issue now
Do the math in terms of sq meters/tonnes of soil and then price up some big skips
3: a decent builder will have a chippy
4: Is the whole site that clay?
Slope the dig at 45 degrees along the path, maybe reduce it to 300mm in depth

CarPark2

Thanks. That is very helpful.