PushChairs And Dublin Bus

Terrlock

This is really for mothers or dad's of children on their own getting on Dublin buses.

Some bus drivers insist that you fold up your buggy before putting it on the bus.

However how do you manage this with a toddler.

If find it a little dangerous that they force you to take the toddler out of the buggy on the footpath, where you have to try and keep the toddler under control while folding a buggy and then lifting it on the bus.

How do people manage this safely.

There is usually plenty of room to fold the buggy after you get on the bus, but bus drivers are not allowing this.

t8010789

Is there a one open buggy rule on a bus? More than one and it requires folding. It’s not the easiest of tasks, some buggies are easier and lighter to fold and some toddlers are lighter and easier to hold. I’d more often than not hold onto my toddler as I collapse the buggy, not great for the back.

I find most bus drivers quite understanding, they are the ones who probably have kids themselves

Stephen15

The thing is there have been problems on buses in the past with conflicts between parents with prams and wheelchair users as certain parents have refused to fold up their prams in order to facilitate people in wheelchairs wishing to board the bus.

Perhaps the drivers find it easier to ask people to fold up the prams before boarding then having an incident unfold. It's not fair that wheelchair users should be denied travel all because some inconsiderate person refuses to fold up a pram. Tbh other passengers should be more considerate too and assist people fold up buggys or help them lift it on.

Terrlock

Well it's just that a toddler could run onto the road while your trying to fold up the buggy

Cookie_Monster

get a baby leash

LastStop

Terrlock wrote: »

Some bus drivers insist that you fold up your buggy before putting it on the bus.

Driver: You need to fold up the buggy to bring it on.

Passenger: Okay I'll do it when I get on

Passenger boards....

Passenger: oh look I can squeeze the buggy into this space between the glass and the other buggy.

Driver: Sorry, you can't do that, I told you that you'd need to fold the buggy.

Passenger: ignores driver.....

Driver: We are going anywhere until you fold the buggy or get off bus.

Passenger..... it's in a space...

Other passengers: Jesus Christ stop being such an Ahole and drive, your delaying everyone.



That's why drivers insist on it being done before you board. Also DB could do a better job highlighting the dangers involved with placing the buggy in the incorrect position.

allcash

Golden rule of DB, Blame the driver for everything that goes wrong!
So you follow DB rules to the letter regarding buggys.
1 wheelchair and 1 buggy on the bus
2 buggys on the bus
If a wheelchair wants to get on you must ask if one of the 2 buggys will fold, they can refuse and you leave the wheelchair behind at the stop.
Deviate form these rules and if anything goes wrong you are fcuked.
As for asking to fold the buggy before getting on, very simple, i reckon a good 75% of these buggys will develop a fault so that they can't be folded, you know by the head of the woman if it will be one of these buggys, so you ask to fold before entry as to avoid a confrontation on the bus, as long as you are not on the bus your not the drivers problem.
You can send in as many complaints as you like , DB will back the driver in this situation as they have followed the rules, i believe the rules are set by the NTA, so whatever they set as rules the driver will follow
You would have to wonder how people managed 15 years ago before low floor buses?
Follow the rules and stop causing problems or walk.

Xterminator

technically drivers cannot make any passengers move etc. they don't have the power, they can only ask. so even if the passenger sitting in the buggy area doesnt have a pram or they have a 3 year old child and a pram, the driver cannot force them to move. It might help if they were granted that power but it isn't the drives decision to make.

The buses can only accept an unfolded buggy if there is a valid space for it, and they are not allowed to board one squeezed into a space not permitted. Its a regulation some drivers ignore, but its still the rule.

If a driver asks you to fold the buggy its because they didn't have a space for it. so your options are fold or wait for another bus. So you dont have to fold your buggy if its dangerous you just get the next bus. Or ask someone to help? I have never seen anyone refuse to hold a child or a bag, to allow you fold your buggy.

Dravokivich

When using the bus, I was prepared to fold down. It should not come as a surprise. The buggy we got, my only concern was how easy it was to fold. Carried bare minimum when using public transport. Not to reduce being a hindrance to others, but so as not to overly complicated things for myself.

Are other people incapable of planning a simple bus ride?

PhoenixParker

I get everything ready to fold, get to the door of the bus, put the toddler on the bus and instruct them to stand quietly , then fold the buggy and board the bus. Toddler may run away, but if it's into the bus, there's not really any problem. They can only go so far.

bk

I'm a father myself and regularly bring my toddler on the bus.

It is actually really easy, if you mentally prepare for use of a buggy on the bus.

The parents who I see who struggle the most are ones with massive buggies which IMO are completely unnecessary and impracticable and often they have like ten bags of shopping hanging off the buggy, making it all a nightmare to fold, etc.

Being prepared, the buggy I use is super lightweight, pretty easy to quickly to fold, folds into an incredibly small size (will fit under an airline seat!) and is very light to carry one handed. BTW it is a Babyzen Yoyo for anyone interested. Having this buggy makes using public transport and flying/travelling a breeze. Here is one folded:



Also I'm usually mentally prepared to quickly fold the buggy if needs be. That means I keep any shopping, etc. in a backpack, so that I don't have to struggle taking stuff out of the buggy when folding it. It probably takes me about 10 seconds to fold the buggy on the bus and stick it on the rack, easy.

A few more tips:
- Try and travel off peak if you can. Not always possible of course, but easier if you can and more likely not to need to fold.
- Give yourself more time. If you aren't in a rush and a bus comes with a buggy already on board, you can wave him on and perhaps get the next bus if the wait isn't too long.
- Also when getting off the bus, backing out the door with the buggy is much easier then pushing it forwards out the door.

Basically bringing a buggy on a bus is easy, but it does take just a little planning and forethought.

BTW In my experience most bus drivers are great with people with buggies, patient and helpful. For instance I find most will pull right up to me at a bus stop, even if I'm not the first in line, so I can get on first, makes life easier for everyone. The only times I've seen them get frustrated is with unprepared parents, with massive buggies and taking all day folding them etc. Or thinking they are entitled not to fold when their is already another buggy/wheelchair on board.

Yer Da sells Avon

Terrlock wrote: »

However how do you manage this with a toddler.

If find it a little dangerous that they force you to take the toddler out of the buggy on the footpath, where you have to try and keep the toddler under control while folding a buggy and then lifting it on the bus.

How do people manage this safely.

My mother used to manage it, back in the days when it was physically impossible to get an unfolded buggy onto the bus. And she had two toddlers. Sometimes the conductor would help. Sometimes another passenger would. Sometimes she'd have to do it by herself. But she managed.

I wonder if it was a mistake ever allowing any unfolded buggies onto wheelchair accessible buses in the first place.

LastStop wrote:

Driver: We are going anywhere until you fold the buggy or get off bus.

Passenger..... it's in a space...

Other passengers: Jesus Christ stop being such an Ahole and drive, your delaying everyone.

I avoid this kind of scenario by pinning the blame on the controller.

Driver: Sorry, I can't go anywhere until you fold the buggy.

Other passengers: FFS, just drive

Driver: Hang on, I'll radio my controller and ask him

*controller says no*

Driver: Sorry, folks. Yeah, he's a bollocks, isn't he?

cherryghost

Heh, I've had problems with DB drivers that wouldn't allow a 2nd buggy on the bus (on the newer buses). We ended up waiting an hour to get a bus as we had a newborn at the time.

PhoenixParker

For any future parents/buggy purchasers reading this

One handed fold.

You want a buggy with one handed fold.

bk

cherryghost wrote: »

Heh, I've had problems with DB drivers that wouldn't allow a 2nd buggy on the bus (on the newer buses). We ended up waiting an hour to get a bus as we had a newborn at the time.

The rule is one unfolded buggy per bus, even on the newer buses (which have both a dedicated buggy bay and a separate wheelchair bay).

I find though that most drivers don't enforce that rule on the newer buses and will leave two unfolded buggies on. Most drivers aren't such sticklers for the rules.

Though in that case you have to be ready to fold or get off if you are in the wheelchair bay and a wheelchair comes on. They get priority. I've experienced that myself, I happily jumped up and folded when I saw the wheelchair coming.

Perhaps in your case, because it was a newborn, the driver thought it would be too difficult for you to fold if a wheelchair got on and s/he would have to kick you off. That could cause a lot of trouble for the driver, so best to avoid it and not let you on. Also perhaps your buggy looked particularly large and difficult to fold?

If you had a toddler and a light buggy, I think they are more likely to leave a second one on, knowing that it should be easier to fold if a wheelchair arrives on.

Funnily, the last day I was on the bus with my little one over the weekend, there were three unfolded buggies, including a big double one!! We all fit just fine.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

The rule is one unfolded buggy per bus, even on the newer buses (which have both a dedicated buggy bay and a separate wheelchair bay).

I find though that most drivers don't enforce that rule on the newer buses and will leave two unfolded buggies on. Most drivers aren't such sticklers for the rules.

Though in that case you have to be ready to fold or get off if you are in the wheelchair bay and a wheelchair comes on. They get priority. I've experienced that myself, I happily jumped up and folded when I saw the wheelchair coming.

Perhaps in your case, because it was a newborn, the driver thought it would be too difficult for you to fold if a wheelchair got on and s/he would have to kick you off. That could cause a lot of trouble for the driver, so best to avoid it and not let you on. Also perhaps your buggy looked particularly large and difficult to fold?

If you had a toddler and a light buggy, I think they are more likely to leave a second one on, knowing that it should be easier to fold if a wheelchair arrives on.

Funnily, the last day I was on the bus with my little one over the weekend, there were three unfolded buggies, including a big double one!! We all fit just fine.

Just to clarify the position in bold.

The "One Occupied Buggy Rule" is only applicable to the older vehicles in the BAC fleet,AV,AX,EV,VT,VG and GT1-GT20.

On ALL vehicles from GT21 onwards the situation is that TWO Occupied buggies may be carried,with the Driver directing the First Occupied Buggy to the BUGGY space,and the second Occupied Buggy to the WHEELCHAIR with the person in charge being advised that Should a Wheelchair present for travel,the Buggy in the Wheelchair Space will be asked to fold and vacate that location. (They MUST be asked,but cannot be forced to fold)

A Driver may not refuse an Occupied Buggy access to a vacant Wheelchair Space on the grounds of "Keeping it clear in case a Wheelchair user wants it",as all access is based upon the 1st Come,1st Served principle.

Drivers permitting Two Occupied buggies on the newer vehicles are complying with Company Policy,which is derived from Manufacturers Specifications,in addition to construction & use of vehicles regulations.

Drivers permitting any additional occupied buggies are therefore making a conscious decision NOT to adhere to that policy,which,as professional drivers,would be somewhat more seriously regarded should anything untoward occur.

Everything is fine,until something happens,then,the reasoning behind the Company having a policy in the first place will,most definitely be explained in great detail,usually in a Legal Proceeding context.

Should an incident occur,the very same Busdriver,who was a great fellow for allowing that extra buggy or two on board,will immediately be asked why,if as a professional driver,he knew there was an increased risk,he/she still permitted that to occur.

It should also be borne in mind,that not everybody will surrender their position to a Wheelchair User,a situation I personally have encountered numerous times.

Whether for selfish reasons,or due to cultural differences,the principle of prioritizing access for the Disabled is by no means universal,with our National regulations very much at the forefront of EU norms.

With Public Transport becoming ever more challenged for space,there is a situation developing whereby some form of decision will have to be made regarding what is desireable,vs,what is safely possible.

What is of most use to Operational Staff,Customers and Disabled alike is CLARITY,but this simple element is often absent from our preferred way of doing things ?

LastStop

AlekSmart wrote: »

Just to clarify the position in bold.

The "One Occupied Buggy Rule" is only applicable to the older vehicles in the BAC fleet,AV,AX,EV,VT,VG and GT1-GT20.

On ALL vehicles from GT21 onwards the situation is that TWO Occupied buggies may be carried,with the Driver directing the First Occupied Buggy to the BUGGY space,

There is also an issue of people sitting in the seat of the buggy space, forcing the buggy into the Wheelchair space and rendering the newer buses one buggy buses. You can't force people out of that spot either.

I agree, clarification and explanation from DB would help..... I haven't travelled on GAI yet so no experience of how they are dealing with it.

AlekSmart

LastStop wrote: »

There is also an issue of people sitting in the seat of the buggy space, forcing the buggy into the Wheelchair space and rendering the newer buses one buggy buses. You can't force people out of that spot either.

I agree, clarification and explanation from DB would help..... I haven't travelled on GAI yet so no experience of how they are dealing with it.

You make a VERY valid point re the Folding Seats on the Wrights Gemini Dublin Spec vehicles.

The insistence by the NTA of these folding seats,in order to increase overall seating capacity,actually plays a significant role in preventing,and/or,restricting the smooth operation of Buggy/Wheelchair access.

Many passengers mistakenly believe the Folding Seats are designated for those of limited mobility,but they are NOT :eek:.
The designated seats are the normal fixed seats BEHIND the folding pair.

Were I in command of the ship,I would immediately procure an angle-grinder and remove the folding seats,which would return the Buggy Bay to it's intended role,and coincidentally underline the reality that the NTA spec vehicles have a substantial seating capacity deficit,in comparison to the vehicles they replace.

Stephen15

I would agree with your sentiment as I do believe folding seats are a nuisance. I would also be of the opinion that the large wheelchair headrest cum flip down seat be removed and only be a head rest for wheelchair users. I think that encourages people to remain in the wheelchair space with a pram. Tfl whom the NTA as they're considered best p often follow have done this so maybe the NTA should follow

Flip down seats also reduce the amount of standing space available. The good thing about the SG class is that they are a much more suitable type of bus for standing passengers than they're professors. I would be of the opinion of that urban transport systems should maximising they're standing capacity rather than putting in seats at the expense of standing room.

bk

Stephen15 wrote: »

I would agree with your sentiment as I do believe folding seats are a nuisance. I would also be of the opinion that the large wheelchair headrest cum flip down seat be removed and only be a head rest for wheelchair users. I think that encourages people to remain in the wheelchair space with a pram. Tfl whom the NTA as they're considered best p often follow have done this so maybe the NTA should follow

Surely the safest thing to do is for a parent to stay with the child in the buggy. I'm not 100%, but I vaguely remember the sign on some buses stating this. Most check next time. Yes that fold down seat is usually used by the parent with the buggy in the wheelchair bay and that seems relatively sensible to me.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Flip down seats also reduce the amount of standing space available. The good thing about the SG class is that they are a much more suitable type of bus for standing passengers than they're professors. I would be of the opinion of that urban transport systems should maximising they're standing capacity rather than putting in seats at the expense of standing room.

Definitely, DB traditionally has had far too much attention on number of seats. Partly that is down to how slow it is. Buses in mainland Europe tend to have far less seating and far more standing space, more like Luas. The difference being buses are far faster for a variety of reasons and thus people don't spend as much time standing.

We seem to be gradually moving towards the more mainland European model.

dashcamdanny

All prams should be folded before getting on the bus. Regardless of space. Wheelchair space should be for wheelchairs ONLY.
Not stuffed with parents, children and prams.

Works very well in NYC.

monkeybutter

dashcamdanny wrote: »

All prams should be folded before getting on the bus. Regardless of space. Wheelchair space should be for wheelchairs ONLY.
Not stuffed with parents, children and prams.

Works very well in NYC.

Just no, have a double buggy with twins, no chance. If there's no space, I'll wait for the next one.

.G.

How did anyone ever manage before low floor buses existed. Used to do my head in when I was a driver. Some of the ridiculous buggys people buy and then all the ****e they drag around with them too.

Stephen15

superg wrote: »

How did anyone ever manage before low floor buses existed. Used to do my head in when I was a driver. Some of the ridiculous buggys people buy and then all the ****e they drag around with them too.

Exactly

Del2005

superg wrote: »

How did anyone ever manage before low floor buses existed. Used to do my head in when I was a driver. Some of the ridiculous buggys people buy and then all the ****e they drag around with them too.

Maybe they drove instead of using public transport. So is it better to use the bus or drive, which is what people will do if they can't use their buggy on the bus.

Stephen15

Del2005 wrote: »

Maybe they drove instead of using public transport. So is it better to use the bus or drive, which is what people will do if they can't use their buggy on the bus.

Well generally if travelling by car you'd have to fold up a pram in order for it to fit in the boot. From what I gather without trying to sound like snob that it's generally people of let us say a lower socio economic background that cause issues with prams.

If there's no wheelchair user or a second or third pram on the bus I don't see a problem with an unfolded pram. But if a wheelchair user wishes to board then it's fairly simple to fold up the pram and put on the luggage rack. Perhaps if other passengers see that the person with the pram is having difficulty then they could assist it would be courteous approach.

dashcamdanny

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well generally if travelling by car you'd have to fold up a pram in order for it to fit in the boot. From what I gather without trying to sound like snob that it's generally people of let us say a lower socio economic background that cause issues with prams.

If there's no wheelchair user or a second or third pram on the bus I don't see a problem with an unfolded pram. But if a wheelchair user wishes to board then it's fairly simple to fold up the pram and put on the luggage rack. Perhaps if other passengers see that the person with the pram is having difficulty then they could assist it would be courteous approach.

Thats the truth. :pac::pac::pac:

Its always the Vicky pollard type that kicks off with me. Every time.

Track suit top, 4" hoop ear rings, loud mouth, glued to her smart phone.

Stephen15

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Thats the truth. :pac::pac::pac:

Its always the Vicky pollard type that kicks off with me. Every time.

Track suit top, 4" hoop ear rings, loud mouth, glued to her smart phone.

The cheek of you tryin tell me to me to fold up me pram. Who do u think u are, your just a bleedin bus driver so ya are u can't tell me what to do. I swear to god