2022 Open to be played in Hoylake - one in the eye for Trump?

coylemj

The blacklisting of Turnberry as an Open venue, thanks to it's loudmouth owner (Trump) now appears to be permanent as the R&A have just announced that the 2022 (British) Open Championship will be played at Royal Liverpool (aka Hoylake).

https://www.theopen.com/latest/the151stopen

Turnberry last hosted the event in 2009 and appears to have been snubbed overlooked a few times since Trump bought the place in 2014.

For example by 2022, Royal St. Georges and Hoylake will have hosted the event twice since 2009 and all of the other links on the circuit (Muirfield, Troon, Royal Birkdale, Royal Lythan and St. Annes and Carnoustie) will have hosted it once.

backspin.

R&A shouldn't be getting political. Trump for all his faults is the legitimate president of the United States. Voted for by 50 million or so Americans.

Miley Byrne

backspin. wrote: »

R&A shouldn't be getting political. Trump for all his faults is the legitimate president of the United States. Voted for by 50 million or so Americans.

And Turnberry happens to be the best course on the Open rota

Break80

I know the man is a clown but we had a golf weekend in Doonbeg last summer.
I must say we were treated like kings with 2 rounds on a very well kept course.
Driven from the lodges to hotel. Dropped and collected from the village late at night and all local staff who couldn't do enough for you.
The Americans could show you a thing or two how to operate in the service industry.

Norm Peterson

It should be off the rota until Trump is at least a good few years removed from public life and to be honest It was a very poor move to award the PGA championship to one of his courses in a few years time.

I don't really care whether he was democratically elected he's an extremely unpopular divisive figure and golf could do without being so directly associated with it.Golf already has an image problem it doesn't need to create more problems for itself.

Golf should be apolitical and having tournaments at his courses certainly doesn't achieve that.

The negative publicity associated with having a tournament at one of his courses and the distraction it would casue would not be good for the sport, the best thing the PGA tour has done in recent years is moving the WGC event from Doral to Mexico, it's turned a boring run of the mill tournament into a terrific more meaningful event.

Dero123

I was at that open in 2009, Tom Watson should have won, it’s a stunning location but a nightmare to get too, trains and buses plus a lot of walking. Any Open there has always had lower attendance numbers I think between that and Trump it’s probably the reason the R&A have not been back.

ligerdub

Norm Peterson wrote: »

It should be off the rota until Trump is at least a good few years removed from public life and to be honest It was a very poor move to award the PGA championship to one of his courses in a few years time.

I don't really care whether he was democratically elected he's an extremely unpopular divisive figure and golf could do without being so directly associated with it.Golf already has an image problem it doesn't need to create more problems for itself.

Golf should be apolitical and having tournaments at his courses certainly doesn't achieve that.

The negative publicity associated with having a tournament at one of his courses and the distraction it would casue would not be good for the sport, the best thing the PGA tour has done in recent years is moving the WGC event from Doral to Mexico, it's turned a boring run of the mill tournament into a terrific more meaningful event.

Twaddle! Just because President Trump has an interest in one of the courses on the Open rota should have no bearing (positive or negative) on the selection of courses for the Open. It should be down to merit and time since last played. Turnberry has only hosted the Open 4 times in the history of the tournament, not being selected is hardly a massive surprise, the last gap between hosting was 15 years. The association to DT probably doesn't assist in them getting it while he's in office, but the idea that it's tarnished by this is narrow minded rubbish.

Maybe they should have cut down "Ike's" tree in Augusta years ago in case anyone didn't like his politics.

Speak for yourself regarding Doral/Mexico. The tournament last week felt more like a web.com event rather that a marquee tour event. Doral is also a course steeped in the history of US golf, and WGC Mexico is in my eyes a major downgrade on the previous venue.

Eoinyh

Norm Peterson wrote: »

It should be off the rota until Trump is at least a good few years removed from public life and to be honest It was a very poor move to award the PGA championship to one of his courses in a few years time.

I don't really care whether he was democratically elected he's an extremely unpopular divisive figure and golf could do without being so directly associated with it.Golf already has an image problem it doesn't need to create more problems for itself.

Golf should be apolitical and having tournaments at his courses certainly doesn't achieve that.

The negative publicity associated with having a tournament at one of his courses and the distraction it would casue would not be good for the sport, the best thing the PGA tour has done in recent years is moving the WGC event from Doral to Mexico, it's turned a boring run of the mill tournament into a terrific more meaningful event.

I'd vote for him

Norm Peterson

ligerdub wrote: »

Twaddle! Just because President Trump has an interest in one of the courses on the Open rota should have no bearing (positive or negative) on the selection of courses for the Open. It should be down to merit and time since last played. Turnberry has only hosted the Open 4 times in the history of the tournament, not being selected is hardly a massive surprise, the last gap between hosting was 15 years. The association to DT probably doesn't assist in them getting it while he's in office, but the idea that it's tarnished by this is narrow minded rubbish.

Maybe they should have cut down "Ike's" tree in Augusta years ago in case anyone didn't like his politics.

Speak for yourself regarding Doral/Mexico. The tournament last week felt more like a web.com event rather that a marquee tour event. Doral is also a course steeped in the history of US golf, and WGC Mexico is in my eyes a major downgrade on the previous venue.

The sport should be aiming to be apolitical, that means not having anything to do with a figure like Trump, also sports try to get good publicity for themselves and having a tournament associated with Donald Trump would not achieve that.The idea that the tournament wouldn't be tarnished by being at a course owned by Trump is nonsense, it would result in a load of negative publicity for the event another stick for people to beat the sport with.The sport should be steering clear of Trump until he's well finished with public life.

Doral is a really dull course in my eyes, the tournament in Mexico is much ore enjoyable and they play enough events in Florida as it is.

lawred2

backspin. wrote: »

R&A shouldn't be getting political. Trump for all his faults is the legitimate president of the United States. Voted for by 50 million or so Americans.

I'd agree but there's probably more to it than just a dislike of Trump.

And to be honest, the R&A is the definition of white Anglo Saxon privilege so it's not likely that they have much in the way of idealogical disparity.

It's probably about money and protecting commercial interests.

idle

Norm Peterson wrote: »

It should be off the rota until Trump is at least a good few years removed from public life and to be honest It was a very poor move to award the PGA championship to one of his courses in a few years time.

I don't really care whether he was democratically elected he's an extremely unpopular divisive figure and golf could do without being so directly associated with it.Golf already has an image problem it doesn't need to create more problems for itself.

Golf should be apolitical and having tournaments at his courses certainly doesn't achieve that.

The negative publicity associated with having a tournament at one of his courses and the distraction it would casue would not be good for the sport, the best thing the PGA tour has done in recent years is moving the WGC event from Doral to Mexico, it's turned a boring run of the mill tournament into a terrific more meaningful event.

What a load of bo**ox

Norm Peterson

idle wrote: »

What a load of bo**ox

Really.

Please explain why it's bollix.

Do you really think that it wouldn't provide negative publicity?

Remember the WGC event was moved from Doral because of his comments about Muslims.

The idea that using one of his courses for a prestigious event wouldn't generate some unwanted negative publicity for a major championship is extremely naive bordering on being idiotic. They R & A have moved Muirfield off the rota because of their lack of women members and the negative publicity having the event at such a course would result in.Good public relations is an extremely important part of professional sport these days.

idle

Norm Peterson wrote: »

Really.

Please explain why it's bollix.

Do you really think that it wouldn't provide negative publicity?

Remember the WGC event was moved from Doral because of his comments about Muslims.

The idea that using one of his courses for a prestigious event wouldn't generate some unwanted negative publicity for a major championship is extremely naive bordering on being idiotic. They R & A have moved Muirfield off the rota because of their lack of women members and the negative publicity having the event at such a course would result in.Good public relations is an extremely important part of professional sport these days.

More bo**ox

Muirfield wasn’t a decision the R&A wanted to make but they gave in eventually after pressure from certain groups. God forbid we could have a course that men could play and women couldn’t. Where were these people when the European Tour decided to go to Saudi Arabia?

Also is Trump ‘extremely unpopular’? Or do you believe he’s extremely unpopular because your television tells you every day that he is?

I think an Open in Turnberry would be seen as a brave move by the R&A, and would be applauded

I’m not interested in getting into a political debate on the Golf forum so I think we should agree to disagree however I will say this; when the history books are written Trump will be seen in a much better light than his predecessors (depending on who writes them!)

#JusticeForTurnberry

Norm Peterson

idle wrote: »

More bo**ox

Muirfield wasn’t a decision the R&A wanted to make but they gave in eventually after pressure from certain groups. God forbid we could have a course that men could play and women couldn’t. Where were these people when the European Tour decided to go to Saudi Arabia?

Also is Trump ‘extremely unpopular’? Or do you believe he’s extremely unpopular because your television tells you every day that he is?

I think an Open in Turnberry would be seen as a brave move by the R&A, and would be applauded

I’m not interested in getting into a political debate on the Golf forum so I think we should agree to disagree however I will say this; when the history books are written Trump will be seen in a much better light than his predecessors (depending on who writes them!)

#JusticeForTurnberry

I'm saying that Trump's extremely unpopular because it's obvious that he is extremely unpopular, there has scarcely been such a divisive political figure across the world in recent decades.

The european tour shouldn't be playing in Saudi Arabia and lots of people disagreed with the decision and it lead to a lot of criticism of the players who played in it.It wasn't a particularly good thing for the european tour.

The move would not be applauded and it will almost certainly generate negative publicity for the event whether you want to believe it or not, has being associated with Trump done any good for anything in recent years.

You're point about Muirfield just backs up what I'm saying. Public pressure caused the R & A to essentially force Muirfield to change its membership policy, if they can see the light once regarding good public relations they can do it again.

Eoinyh

Norm Peterson wrote: »

I'm saying that Trump's extremely unpopular because it's obvious that he is extremely unpopular, there has scarcely been such a divisive political figure across the world in recent decades.

The european tour shouldn't be playing in Saudi Arabia and lots of people disagreed with the decision and it lead to a lot of criticism of the players who played in it.It wasn't a particularly good thing for the european tour.

The move would not be applauded and it will almost certainly generate negative publicity for the event whether you want to believe it or not, has being associated with Trump done any good for anything in recent years.

You're point about Muirfield just backs up what I'm saying. Public pressure caused the R & A to essentially force Muirfield to change its membership policy, if they can see the light once regarding good public relations they can do it again.

Extremely unpopular and voted in as president.What was it exactly he said about Muslims, now not what CNN proclaim he said, what he actually said.

Norm Peterson

Eoinyh wrote: »

Extremely unpopular and voted in as president.What was it exactly he said about Muslims, now not what CNN proclaim he said, what he actually said.

this is what he said: "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on."



Again none of you have adressed any of my points.

Donald Trump is a divisive character , this is inarguable why he is divisive or whether he should be divisive is irrelevant the fact is that he is a divisive figure.

Having a tournament at one of his courses while he is president is going to bring a lot of unwanted negative publicity, whether it is justified or not again is irrelevant.

They have already moved a tournament away from one of his courses essentially for public relations reasons, therefore it is completely reasonable and sensible to expect that the golfing authorities would do so again.

It is sensible to keep away from playing at his courses until he is finished with public life.The sport should be aiming to be apolitical and avoiding having a major championship being so directly associated with him while he is president is a sensible idea.

It brings no exra benefit to the championship to be played at Turnberry (above any of the otehr courses) and a potential for something negative (whether justified or not) to come from playing at Turnberry, it's an easy and sensible decision to just move it off the rota for the time being.

Joe_ Public

Remember the year turnberry hosted the women’s open and trump used it to stoke up headlines for his presidential bid. It was a circus, distracted from the event and led to a “will he won’t he show up” media frenzy when the us open was then held at one of his courses. So id agree with the previous poster that hosting a major at a trump owned course is problematic while he still holds that office. The lpga probably feels ok with the that kind of publicity - any kind of publicity - not sure anyone else really needs it.

And yes, turnberry a b!tch to get there but absolutely magical place and course.

Eoinyh

what he said: "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on."


Oh right, thats it?
Don't see how this should impact a golf tournament been played on his organisations course

Norm Peterson

Eoinyh wrote: »

what he said: "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on."


Oh right, thats it?
Don't see how this should impact a golf tournament been played on his organisations course

Because the R & A are the leaders of the game of golf globally and they don't want to be directly associating themselves with him and be seen to be effectively endorsing such views. It's fairly easy to understand this.

The Orb

coylemj wrote: »

The blacklisting of Turnberry as an Open venue, thanks to it's loudmouth owner (Trump) now appears to be permanent as the R&A have just announced that the 2022 (British) Open Championship will be played at Royal Liverpool (aka Hoylake).

https://www.theopen.com/latest/the151stopen

Turnberry last hosted the event in 2009 and appears to have been snubbed overlooked a few times since Trump bought the place in 2014.

For example by 2022, Royal St. Georges and Hoylake will have hosted the event twice since 2009 and all of the other links on the circuit (Muirfield, Troon, Royal Birkdale, Royal Lythan and St. Annes and Carnoustie) will have hosted it once.

Not forgetting St.Andrews !

Eoinyh

Norm Peterson wrote: »

Because the R & A are the leaders of the game of golf globally and they don't want to be directly associating themselves with him and be seen to be effectively endorsing such views. It's fairly easy to understand this.

Oh right, guilty by association in your estimation, you really think this would have an impact on the R&A?

Eoinyh

Norm Peterson wrote: »

Because the R & A are the leaders of the game of golf globally and they don't want to be directly associating themselves with him and be seen to be effectively endorsing such views. It's fairly easy to understand this.

Oh right, guilty by association in your estimation, you really think this would have an impact on the R&A?

Norm Peterson

Eoinyh wrote: »

Oh right, guilty by association in your estimation, you really think this would have an impact on the R&A?

It will and they know it. That's why they've taken it off the open rota and why the WGC event was moved from Doral to Mexico.

It's fairly easy to work out.

Pro's of playing at Turnberry compared to other venues : Essentially None.

Cons of playing a Turnberry compared to other venues : A number of them which I've outlined already.

Eoinyh

Norm Peterson wrote: »

It will and they know it. That's why they've taken it off the open rota and why the WGC event was moved from Doral to Mexico.

It's fairly easy to work out.

Pro's of playing at Turnberry compared to other venues : Essentially

Cons of playing a Turnberry compared to other venues : A number of them which I've outlined already.

You actually haven't given a number of the cons. You keep stating that YOU believe that it will bring negative publicity to the game of golf. What impact will that have, do you think people won't play golf because there was a tournament played on a course owned by the Trump enterprise? Or have you more insight into the negative impact

Norm Peterson

Eoinyh wrote: »

You actually haven't given a number of the cons. You keep stating that YOU believe that it will bring negative publicity to the game of golf. What impact will that have, do you think people won't play golf because there was a tournament played on a course owned by the Trump enterprise? Or have you more insight into the negative impact

If you read my posts you would see I did give some cons you just don't want to see them.

It will bring negative publicity for the tournament whether you want to accept it or not, this doesn't do the sport as a whole any good.

Also the sport already has a massive image problem already and it doesn't need to be courting any negative publicity (which playing at a trump course would bring) if it can be avoided.

I won't be responding to your posts anymore as I've made my point and really you're just trying to not see the point I've been making for the sake of it.

Eoinyh

Norm Peterson wrote: »

If you read my posts you would see I did give some cons you just don't want to see them.

It will bring negative publicity for the tournament whether you want to accept it or not, this doesn't do the sport as a whole any good.

Also the sport already has a massive image problem already and it doesn't need to be courting any negative publicity (which playing at a trump course would bring) if it can be avoided.

I won't be responding to your posts anymore as I've made my point and really you're just trying to not see the point I've been making for the sake of it.

Maybe you should read your past posts,your still only stating the one con "negative publicity" still no real quantifiable impacts. I don't believe that it would have any real impact to the PGA, R&A or golf at all. People will still go to watch tournaments, still play golf and no sport should not be apolitical, stupid thing to say

charlieIRL

Let’s leave the political chat to their relevant forms and we’ll just chat about golf here. Thanks.

ebbsy

charlieIRL wrote: »

Let’s leave the political chat to their relevant forms and we’ll just chat about golf here. Thanks.

Common sense.

callaway92

Anyone think that what charlieIRL said was common sense?

eagle eye

Courses should be picked on merit. I don't think politics should come into it.

Pints?

eagle eye wrote: »

Courses should be picked on merit. I don't think politics should come into it.

Exactly. Otherwise the Master's would have to be played on a golf course not steeped in racism.