Will colonising countries come into fashion again?

Ubbquittious

When the first Europeans realised they could sail down to Africa and massacre a few hunter gatherers and plunder their land everyone wanted a piece of the action. But these days its frowned upon, yet you see the Chinese doing it in all but name by buying off corrupt politicians to do their bidding without installing any Chinese leaders in the country.

Will we see African countries joining the Peoples republic of China at any point? They have tested the waters with Tibet, if they force Taiwan to rejoin they know they'll get away with it in other places too.

The Chinese would appear to be the only crowd ruthless enough to do it and have the resources to match

sk8erboii

Ubbquittious wrote: »

When the first Europeans realised they could sail down to Africa and massacre a few hunter gatherers and plunder their land everyone wanted a piece of the action. But these days its frowned upon, yet you see the Chinese doing it in all but name by buying off corrupt politicians to do their bidding without installing any Chinese leaders in the country.

Will we see African countries joining the Peoples republic of China at any point? They have tested the waters with Tibet, if they force Taiwan to rejoin they know they'll get away with it in other places too.

The Chinese would appear to be the only crowd ruthless enough to do it and have the resources to match

Its much more practical to make proxy/puppet nations

screamer

Ah, yep it never went out of fashion, it’s just more covert these days, and it’s colonizing continents now.

gozunda

Ubbquittious wrote: »

...

Will we see African countries joining the Peoples republic of China at any point? They have tested the waters with Tibet, if they force Taiwan to rejoin they know they'll get away with it in other places too.

The Chinese would appear to be the only crowd ruthless enough to do it and have the resources to match

The next world war imo will be between China and the Oil producing nations over access to land, labour and resources. Whoever wins will get the spoils imo ...

the_syco

The Chinese are building roads and railway in various parts of Africa. And teaching the locals Chinese. Russia has taken part of a country to give it a non-frozen port. America is being kept in check by the people whom it keeps free.

When the next war happens, Russia and China will have the resources to last it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Ubbquittious wrote: »

When the first Europeans realised they could sail down to Africa and massacre a few hunter gatherers and plunder their land everyone wanted a piece of the action. But these days its frowned upon, yet you see the Chinese doing it in all but name by buying off corrupt politicians to do their bidding without installing any Chinese leaders in the country.

Will we see African countries joining the Peoples republic of China at any point? They have tested the waters with Tibet, if they force Taiwan to rejoin they know they'll get away with it in other places too.

The Chinese would appear to be the only crowd ruthless enough to do it and have the resources to match

If the Chinese are involved in imperialism in Africa by paying off a few politicians then so is the west, America mostly. In fact the US is involved in nearly every country.

Franz Von Peppercorn

gozunda wrote: »

The next world war imo will be between China and the Oil producing nations over access to land, labour and resources. Whoever wins will get the spoils imo ...

Jesus wept. Where do these fantasies come from.

Giveaway

The chinese model so far is a carbon copy of the european 19th century coloniolism. Initially business trade and influence to secure raw materials. Chinese companys probably already have private military contractors on the ground to protect their investments

Franz Von Peppercorn

Giveaway wrote: »

The chinese model so far is a carbon copy of the european 19th century coloniolism. Initially business trade and influence to secure raw materials. Chinese companys probably already have private military contractors on the ground to protect their investments

That’s really not a description of all European colonialism - some, probably most, started as government led or sanctioned colonialism.

And why would China invade and impose Chinese government, laws and culture on countries when they can trade with them anyway? The former causes revolts, the latter doesn’t. Abd the African population is going to be huge in a century.

Except for within its own empire the Chinese have not really have a history of expansionism, the odd emperor aside. They don’t believe that Chinese culture should dominate, which is very different from the West, either driven by Christianity or other universalistic ideologies.

orourkeda1977

nice bit of an aul colony

Giveaway

Private business did frequently start first with the state following. East india company for example or Cecil Rhodes in southern africa.

the_syco

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

And why would China invade and impose Chinese government, laws and culture on countries when they can trade with them anyway? The former causes revolts, the latter doesn’t. Abd the African population is going to be huge in a century.

Agreed. The Chinese are currently giving money to other countries to build roads, buildings, etc, to facilitate the new silk road. Money that said countries won't be able to repay, so China then gets land for free, which it'll build military bases onto. China will own land by countries grateful for the infrastructure.

I think Djibouti may be the test subject.

gozunda

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Jesus wept. Where do these fantasies come from.

Dry his freekin tears then why don't ya. It's a projection not some idea of your 'fantasy' btw. Is it that only some allowed to make comment or should we all limit our opinions according to your select ideas?

gozunda

Giveaway wrote: »

Private business did frequently start first with the state following. East india company for example or Cecil Rhodes in southern africa.

^^This. Same in the early days of the North America 'buying' land of first nations with beads, booze and blankets and then followed up by government sponsored genocide.

gozunda

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

...

And why would China invade and impose Chinese government, laws and culture on countries when they can trade with them anyway? The former causes revolts, the latter doesn’t. Abd the African population is going to be huge in a century.

Except for within its own empire the Chinese have not really have a history of expansionism, the odd emperor aside. They don’t believe that Chinese culture should dominate, which is very different from the West, either driven by Christianity or other universalistic ideologies.

One question - Tibet? Or is that China just being nice and reclaiming a bit of it's own "empire ... :rolleyes:

They don’t believe that Chinese culture should dominate, which is very different from the West..

Oh really?

The Tibetans and the Chinese are daughters of the same mother.

The name of the mother is China.
The name of the mother is China.

In Chinese

The Sun and the Moon are daughters of one mother.

The name of the mother is China.
The name of the mother is China.

The Tibetans and the Chinese are daughters of the same mother.
The name of the mother is China.
The name of the mother is China.

https://www.freetibet.org/news-media/na/video-nuns-forced-undergo-patriotic-re-education

Irish Praetorian

Ubbquittious wrote: »

When the first Europeans realised they could sail down to Africa and massacre a few hunter gatherers and plunder their land everyone wanted a piece of the action. But these days its frowned upon, yet you see the Chinese doing it in all but name by buying off corrupt politicians to do their bidding without installing any Chinese leaders in the country.

Will we see African countries joining the Peoples republic of China at any point? They have tested the waters with Tibet, if they force Taiwan to rejoin they know they'll get away with it in other places too.

The Chinese would appear to be the only crowd ruthless enough to do it and have the resources to match

To be fair, it's not like 1492 rolled around and everyone started to realize 'hey we can COLONIZE other people' - infact the term colony derives from the Latin term 'Colonia' which started off meaning bastion but ended up just meaning city.

Anyway, it's all just gradients of 'imperialism' I suppose, you might have a 'colony' nowadays without any settlers or physical infrastructure, just one country providing goods to another, depending on the relationship that might be anything from 'colonization' to 'free trade'.

Your Face

I hope so, I find that the topi hat is rather fetching.

archer22

America has nearly 800 military bases in some 70 countries across the globe.

China has 1

China an imperialist power ha ha....some people here are brainwashed with western BS.
China is a victim itself of both western and Japanese imperialism..the British forced them to buy drugs the Japanese murdered them by the tens of millions and now the Yankee empire is at their door again trying to bully and intimidate them.

But the arrogant yanks will get their fat asses burned big time if they keep pushing luck.China is a far cry now from the weak divided nation it was when the first western gunboats turned up.

Irish Praetorian

archer22 wrote: »

America has nearly 800 military bases in some 70 countries across the globe.

China has 1

China an imperialist power ha ha....some people here are brainwashed with western BS.
China is a victim itself of both western and Japanese imperialism..the British forced them to buy drugs the Japanese murdered them by the tens of millions and now the Yankee empire is at their door again trying to bully and intimidate them.

But the arrogant yanks will get their fat asses burned big time if they keep pushing luck.China is a far cry now from the weak divided nation it was when the first western gunboats turned up.

Can we have one thread that doesn't devolve into the usual 'but America so baaaaaaaaaad' trope?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Giveaway wrote: »

Private business did frequently start first with the state following. East india company for example or Cecil Rhodes in southern africa.

I know but it wasn’t the only route. The Chinese haven’t had a sea empire and they probably won’t.

Anyway if they did they’d be better than the US.

greencap

Hopefully Europe will soft power proxy control parts of N.Africa.

They're need European guidance, and are a source of illegal immigration.

Recently the african union rejected eu requests to process emigrants in N.Africa.
All while taking plenty of aid no doubt.

If N.Africa would play ball it could be a source of production for Europe and develop and benefit a lot as a result.

archer22

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Can we have one thread that doesn't devolve into the usual 'but America so baaaaaaaaaad' trope?

Why to please you?

Franz Von Peppercorn

gozunda wrote: »

It's a projection not some freekin puerile 'fantasy' btw. Is it that only some allowed to make comment or should we all limit our opinions according to your select ideas?

Say what you want and I’ll feel free to ridicule those ideas.

A world war (no less) between China and the oil producing nations at a time when the US is threatening Venezuela. The thing is of course that the kind of thing that’s considered normal for the US would be imperialistic for the Chinese.

Personally, I like the idea of the Belt and road initiative.

youcantakethat

the_syco wrote: »

The Chinese are building roads and railway in various parts of Africa.

And taking the materials back to China.

Sri Lanka’s Hambantota Port was signed over to China on a 99-year lease because Sri Lanka could not repay Chinese loans it took out to build the port. Same as is happening in Eastern seaboard of African continent now.

Franz Von Peppercorn

gozunda wrote: »

One question - Tibet? Or is that China just being nice and reclaiming a bit of it's own "empire ... :rolleyes:



Oh really?



https://www.freetibet.org/news-media/na/video-nuns-forced-undergo-patriotic-re-education

Yeh, Tibet isn’t the world or Africa.

If you consider the Chinese to be imperialistic in Africa then the US is a world empire.

Irish Praetorian

archer22 wrote: »

Why to please you?

If you felt really nice sure, but really I was hoping it might be a demonstration of our collective ability to move away from trite aphorisms toward a more refined and nuanced view of complex international politics.

gozunda

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Say what you want and I’ll feel free to ridicule those ideas. A world war (no less) between China and the oil producing nations at a time when the US is threatening Venezuela. The thing is of course that the kind of thing that’s considered normal for the US would be imperialistic for the Chinese. Personally, I like the idea of the Belt and road initiative.

Thanks I will and btw I would comment to go jump all the same. It's a possible projected scenario and not the present just in case you didn't read that correctly.

China appears everybit as arrogant as the other world superpowers. So I don't doubt that they will adopt the mechanisms of imperialism if needs be. And with 1.386 billion people and seemingly limitless military resources just about anything is possible imo.

archer22

China's achievement in the last 30 years has been astounding...they have raised their huge population out of poverty exclusively by their own efforts.

They are an example to all the poor nations on the planet.

But the hypocrisy of westerners is mind boggling...we say we want all third world nations to develop.
But when they do we class them as threats and try to drive them back to poverty and instability.

gozunda

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yeh, Tibet isn’t the world or Africa. If you consider the Chinese to be imperialistic in Africa then the US is a world empire.

Where did I mention it was?

You said

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote:

And why would China invade and impose Chinese government, laws and culture on countries when they can trade with them anyway? 

And I exampled how the Chinese have invaded and imposed Chinese government, laws and culture in what is considered an independent country by it's own people. The People's Republic of China  claims that Tibet is now an integral part of China. Interestingly China also makes 'imperialistic' claims of Taiwan, the South China Sea and various other regions.

archer22

Tibet was regarded as being part of China since the Yuan dynasty, its brief period of independence between 1912 to 1949 was recognised by nobody except Mongolia.

Taiwan is a part of China and only became a breakaway province when the nationalists fled there after losing the civil war on the mainland.

The islands in the South China Sea belonged to nobody and previously nobody wanted them.
The Chinese claimed them on the grounds that their fishermen had been using them on and off for thousands of years.

Richard Hillman

Wouldnt it be amazing to have leadership that put the interests of the nation first and not just do things to manoever themselves into post political jobs. China have a China First mantra. Same with the Russians. Even the likes of the Saudi's, the Emirati's, Qatari's. They'll line their own pockets but they screw everything and anything to make their own nations wealthy places.

Our leadership in Europe just look after themselves. They look for meaningless accolades and post political positions. They are brushed aside when they have to play with the Big Boys in the Game of Thrones. Weakling leaders voted on the premise that they are good son/daughter in law material by the media, they have no chance when they come up against the Strong Men around the globe.

wingsof daun

Ubbquittious wrote: »

When the first Europeans realised they could sail down to Africa and massacre a few hunter gatherers and plunder their land everyone wanted a piece of the action. But these days its frowned upon, yet you see the Chinese doing it in all but name by buying off corrupt politicians to do their bidding without installing any Chinese leaders in the country.

Will we see African countries joining the Peoples republic of China at any point? They have tested the waters with Tibet, if they force Taiwan to rejoin they know they'll get away with it in other places too.

The Chinese would appear to be the only crowd ruthless enough to do it and have the resources to match

When the white man let the rabbit out of the hat, so to speak, that game was up. In other words, when the white man brought culture to Africa and modernized Africans, suddenly, the white man had created a rival and not a people who could be subjugated any longer. Take America, for example, they took so many Africans into their continent, but, now, for the last 4 or 5 decades, the whites are afraid of the black contingent and will not enter their "hoods" especially at night.

gormdubhgorm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

If the Chinese are involved in imperialism in Africa by paying off a few politicians then so is the west, America mostly. In fact the US is involved in nearly every country.

There is a great book about this called:


"Prisoners of Geography: Ten Maps That Tell You Everything You Need To Know About Global Politics" - by Tim Marshall

gozunda

archer22 wrote: »

Tibet was regarded as being part of China since the Yuan dynasty, its brief period of independence between 1912 to 1949 was recognised by nobody except Mongolia.

Taiwan is a part of China and only became a breakaway province when the nationalists fled there after losing the civil war on the mainland.

The islands in the South China Sea belonged to nobody and previously nobody wanted them.
The Chinese claimed them on the grounds that their fishermen had been using them on and off for thousands of years.

Yeah so says China ...

'Ireland was regarded as being part of Britain since the time of King John ..."

Imperialism doesn't generally recognise others peoples right to sovereignty ...

God help us that anyone would ever criticise totalitarian regimes.

And if you have the cheek to do so you're driving them "back to poverty and instability" :rolleyes:

topper75

Irish can hardly take the moral high ground here about foreign holdings.

We should give Kilburn back to Britain and leave Woodside to the Americans.

If you try to speak Australian down in Bondi now you just get laughed at by some fella in a Westmeath jersey. Criminal.

Zorya

Italy is the first EU country to sign up to China's Belt and Road Initiative.

https://www.ft.com/content/fda398ac-4d72-11e9-b401-8d9ef1626294

Much to the chagrin of the EU and the US. Note, China already has increasing investments in Greece and Portugal.


https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2176357/portugal-welcomes-chinas-money-its-influence-worries-eu

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/3/greece-welcomes-chinas-investment-port/

ToddyDoody

sk8erboii wrote: »

Its much more practical to make proxy/puppet nations

I wouldn't know of any.