Second dog in the house!

BoardsMember

Hi All. We just got a second dog, another rescue. Wondering if people can advise on a couple of things:

1. How to encourage her (new dog) and him (dog we've had for 6 years) to get along and be good companions, at the moment it's like they are ignoring each other, particularly he ignoring her. Happy for them to find their way over time, but wondering about what I could do to help the process. He gets on great with some other dogs and we got her so they would keep each other company

2. Sleeping arrangements: both nights we had her in the kitchen beside him. First night we put her in a crate one as fosterer said she might make a mess. She howled most of the night. Last night, night 2, we put her in a bed like his and beside him. There was a lot of low growling from him, way less howling though from her. She left us pee and poo so probably needs a crate to help her house train. I was trying to teach her to go to bed like he does, but she was getting into his bed, sometimes with him already in it. I'd say that was the cause of the growling!

Background
New dog: female, aged 2, spayed, came from rescue/foster home with lots of dogs, previously lived with lots of dogs in a shed we think. She had a litter previous to spaying. She's a little dote, loves attention, very lively, follows us around everywhere. Fit and healthy. Border terrier mix.

Existing dog: male, aged 6, neutered. We got him as a pup. Great little dog, really low maintenance & chilled. If we was human you'd say he is withdrawn or maybe even slightly depressed. He's just very independent, he does his own thing, "retires" to a comfortable spot in the house even when people are around, would be delighted to see us if we're out for a couple of hours. Fit and healthy. Good with some other dogs, a bit snarly with others, especially when on a lead. Yorkie mix.

tk123

Kind of like my two - Bailey was 4 when pup Lucy arrived. I had him sit/lie near us when I was training her and treated him for just staying near her and they had their walks together etc I wouldn't discourage growling if he's just warning her to back off but at the same time I'd keep an eye on it. He's used to his space like Bailey was and she needs to learn that - even if that means you stepping in. I don't think I'd leave them together at night until she's settled in and learned to give him some space. I'd also make sure he has a spot he can get away from her - for Bailey it was the couch until Lucy was able to get up to him lol.

Rows Grower

Always greet and feed the older dog first. Bring the two of them for a walk together to somewhere the older dog has never been but you know he will enjoy. Let him off the lead and more or less pretend to ignore him.

When he comes back to you, (which I hope he does) make a fuss of him for being so good and ignore the new dog. This will help him know that he is still your number one pet and is not being replaced by a new kid on the block. Once both dogs understand the pecking order they will adjust to it and become best buddies.

Number one thing they need to understand is that you are the master, don't be afraid to raise your voice or act angry to either of them in front of the other if they deserve it.

DBB

To be honest, I'm going to advise against the above and say there's really no need to ignore the new dog in favour of yours. If it makes you feel better, pet him before you pet her, but even this unlikely to have a really discernable impact on their relationship either way. Their brains just aren't wired that way. No need to raise your voice either, especially if you manage things properly. I'd never punish a growl... It's an early warning system that your dog is entitled to use if he's feeling really uncomfortable about something. Punish it, and you risk losing this early warning system.
One thing I'd strongly, strongly recommend is that you don't leave them alone together unsupervised, including at night, for some time to come. This goes for any dogs establishing a new relationship, but is particularly important because your own fella is demonstrating that he's not happy with her incursions... She's used to living with other dogs, but he's not.
I'd suggest a barrier between them, whether it's a playpen, or a baby gate, or even a row of chairs or whatever... I'm not hugely gone on crating dogs all night. But they need to be able to see each other but not physically interact when you're not there.
Bringing dogs for walks is about the most sociable thing they can do together. Because it's such a good bonding exercise, I'd walk them a few times a day for the first week or two... Several short walks rather than one long one. No need to take them to new places unless you particularly want to do that.
My overriding experience with taking in another dog into a home with a cranky resident (and I've done it many, many times) has been that Day 3-4 marks a small but discernable change for the better in the doggy politics. And things tend to improve from that point on.
Also, take any toys or chew toys away for a week or two if you haven't already... You don't need spark points. Feed them on opposite sides of the barrier. And supply a couple of water bowls and maybe a 3rd bed, just so there are excess resources and less likelihood of fighting over them.

em_cat

+1 For the advice from tk123 & DBB.

Raising your voice in anger is unnecessary and the master ethos is very outdated & doesn't do anyone any good and does nothing but scare & frighten a confused animal.

We have a resident snarky grump who growls but then again he also growls at his toys while playing with them so I take that with a grain of salt. Until 5 days ago I had no idea what it be like bringing in a second dog, but fostered and miserably failed which has been a blessing as the two get on pretty well now.

Esme needed to be crate trained as she wasn't house trained, she's also full of beans 23 hours a day and her crate, which has been totally pimped out btw because I just can't stand the sight of a cage in my home, my problem I know, serves as her quite space during the night but only when we all go to bed as its at the end of the bed.

During the day, they each have their own beds at opposite ends of the room or they can lay together on the sofa if they like, we are currently training each to leave each others bed area alone as I firmly believe all animals in the home deserve their own space free from others if needed.

We also feed via barriers as Esmea has just entered her heat and this is what I was advised to do by a qualified Behaviourist and they go on 1 walk together and each gets their lone walk either in the morning or the evening, not on a routine, as I don't want them to expect it I don't want Mr C's reactivity to rub off on Esmea. Chew toys, food dispenser toys or coveted ones are removed when not being used. Fortunately Esme prefers cat toys over dog toys so she really doesn't bother with Mr C's toys and he doesn't really care for hers as they like completely different things but we do have a little toy box near each of their beds to keep them separate.

As I'm writing this they are both happily asleep, one on each side of me and its like a little piece of fluffy heaven, until someones doorbell go off...

Bells21

We have a grumpy sod here and successfully introduced a new dog when he was about a year and a half. We kept them separate at night for the first while and then slowly put them together, ie same room but with a complete visual block then reducing this to where they could see each other but still apart and finally they were together. I made sure we had two beds etc but didn't make one or the other a bed for a particular dog, it just made it that they had options away from each other. In regards to toys, I never thought of removing them at the time, looking back now I definitely would. We didn't have any fight or guarding but the first dog had(still has) this white fluffy teddy from when he was a pup. It was always in his bed never really played with but always there. The second pup came along and loved taking that from his bed which lead to him taking it and putting it back!! The pup went through a phase of nipping as his back legs in order to play and he growled on a few occasions but she quickly learned this wasn't appropriate behaviour. Now they live happily together. She loves him but hates when he gets a case of zoomies and hip checks her to get her to play but she makes it very clear to him and it all dies down again. They sleep in the same room but in separate beds, fed at the same time but different areas. They rub along nicely together and do tend to wander looking for the other if they are away.
I think keeping your first dogs routine as best you can will help them adjust as that offers certainty. Making sure they have an area they can escape to if they feel overwhelmed or just need peace is also a must.

BoardsMember

Thanks for all the input, really helpful.

We had a good night sleep last night, not a peep out of either of them. In their own beds beside each other, she got a hot water bottle with a worn teeshirt for smell. By morning she had pee'd and pooped so we're going to need to do something about that. Had taken them both for a walk at 9pm. Probably need to try use her crate for a few nights to see if she will settle in there, should sort out the house training. She doesn't appear to make a mess during the day.

cocker5

BoardsMember wrote: »

Thanks for all the input, really helpful.

We had a good night sleep last night, not a peep out of either of them. In their own beds beside each other, she got a hot water bottle with a worn teeshirt for smell. By morning she had pee'd and pooped so we're going to need to do something about that. Had taken them both for a walk at 9pm. Probably need to try use her crate for a few nights to see if she will settle in there, should sort out the house training. She doesn't appear to make a mess during the day.

personally id go back to basics with the house training.. get up twice each night and let her out... then a week later get up one etc. 3rd week don't get up.. no interaction but praise when she goes outside

BoardsMember

Not sure we ever did that with him, but thanks for the advice.

Bells21

BoardsMember wrote:

We had a good night sleep last night, not a peep out of either of them. In their own beds beside each other, she got a hot water bottle with a worn teeshirt for smell. By morning she had pee'd and pooped so we're going to need to do something about that. Had taken them both for a walk at 9pm. Probably need to try use her crate for a few nights to see if she will settle in there, should sort out the house training. She doesn't appear to make a mess during the day.

Definitely go back to basics neither training especially at night, if not there's a chance that it could start happening during the day too. I'd also look at the timing of the last feed as that used to be an issue with our first fella. He ate too late and then needed to go during the night.

BoardsMember

She actually pooped on her walk at 9pm, last feed was late afternoon, so "should" not have been a problem.

tk123

I'm repeating from another thread but get up and take her out during the night and then at least you can rule out/pinpoint if it's separation related.. And by taking her out and putting her back to bed you're teaching her to settle too. The point of the crate is that they won't want to go in it but you still need to take them out during the night.. not that you leave them in all night and hope for the best. Bailey can be anxious... and he couldn't care less if Lucy is with him or not lol!

sillysmiles

Are you saying that the last time she goes out for a pee/poo is 9pm - and then hold until 7/8am? For my guy that's too long. He has his evening walk and then last thing before bed is a quick pee in the garden - usually about 11pm. If I go to bed early to read - especially on winter nights when I could go to bed about 9.30 to read my book, I'll get back up and take him out to the loo about 11ish - before I turn out the light!

BoardsMember

sillysmiles wrote: »

Are you saying that the last time she goes out for a pee/poo is 9pm - and then hold until 7/8am? For my guy that's too long. He has his evening walk and then last thing before bed is a quick pee in the garden - usually about 11pm. If I go to bed early to read - especially on winter nights when I could go to bed about 9.30 to read my book, I'll get back up and take him out to the loo about 11ish - before I turn out the light!

I'd let them out before I go to bed, maybe 10.30 or so. Will see about getting up tonight so.

Knine

sillysmiles wrote: »

Are you saying that the last time she goes out for a pee/poo is 9pm - and then hold until 7/8am? For my guy that's too long. He has his evening walk and then last thing before bed is a quick pee in the garden - usually about 11pm. If I go to bed early to read - especially on winter nights when I could go to bed about 9.30 to read my book, I'll get back up and take him out to the loo about 11ish - before I turn out the light!

This is what I do. I have a 9 week old pup now - Border Terrier. He goes out at 11 or 12 and is clean most mornings until 7am.

ED E

BoardsMember wrote: »

so they would keep each other company

Except thats not really a thing outside of puppies. After a few weeks they stop caring for each other and purely seek human attention. They'll pick a stranger over their brother.

Knine

ED E wrote: »

Except thats not really a thing outside of puppies. After a few weeks they stop caring for each other and purely seek human attention. They'll pick a stranger over their brother.

Ah mine all keep each other company. They love interacting with each other too. They vary in age from 9 weeks to 9. They definitely care if when out walking - a loose dog comes looking for trouble!

BoardsMember

Quick update. No poop or pee this morning, no howling. A little bit of growling from him early on after we put them to bed.

sillysmiles

What did you try last night?

BoardsMember

sillysmiles wrote: »

What did you try last night?

More of the same really, later walk and later last trip outside to back garden.

Last night had a little poop and pee. Thinking I either need to get up in middle of night to let her out, and/or crate her for a while.