Ev needed with as much range as possible.

tom1ie

So I’m looking to buy an ev and have looked at many different types but would appreciate any input from those in the know that are on this forum.
I will be visiting lots of sites all over Ireland so I need an ev that has a large range.
As I understand it the Hyundai Kona EV has the furthest range but is as rare as hens teeth and is very pricey, so that’s out likewise with the model 3.
The ampera e isn’t even done in rhd and won’t be either as I think there’ll be a Corsa electric for U.K. and Ireland instead if certain publications are to be believed. That’s a pity, it looked like a good car with a good range for a decent price.
What’s next on the list?
Next up seems to be the Renault Zoe. 240km range (real world according to what car) with the r110 model. 26k with no battery rental 182 reg. (Adds say 400km range but I’m highly skeptical of that.) Renault install a 7kw home charger inc in price.....
That doesn’t seem too bad.
The ioniq seems to deliver approx 180km (according to Hyundai) for 26k was the cheapest I seen, private seller, 181. Lovely car though.
BMW i3 94 ah Rex does 170km on ev and then approx 130km on petrol for 50k. Very expensive!

Have I left anything out?
I’m leaning towards the Zoe to be honest. It’s got good range and that’s the price without the battery rental so it’d be cheaper if I did rent the battery but I’ve to look into that.
What do you guys think?
Thanks a lot guys this is a great forum keep up the good work.

unkel

According to Renault themselves, the Zoe has a range of 200km in winter and 300km in summer. At 120km/h real speed, I doubt it is even 150km in winter

It looks like you have very regular trips of well over 200km. If I were you I'd buy a car that can handle those distances without having to charge. And you are then talking (apart from the Teslas) just one car, Hyundai Kona. In a few months time you will be able to buy the Kia eNiro for similar money as the Kona, both have the same 64kWh battery, same drivetrain and a very substantial range. But make no mistake, at 120km/h in winter I wouldn't expect the Kona to go any further than about 300km

I wouldn't rely on the public fast charging system if you do so much long distance driving. Only one car can charge at a time, and it is not very reliable. It will be a world of pain. That said, there is a new private charging network coming soon, called Ionity (search this forum for it). It will have about 9 chargers installed in Ireland soon where at least 6 cars can charge at the same time. If I were you, I would wait to see how this pans out, before buying a car. A modestly priced Ioniq could very well be more than adequate for your use provided the charging stations are convenient to you. It can charge really fast compared to most other EVs.

tom1ie

unkel wrote: »

According to Renault themselves, the Zoe has a range of 200km in winter and 300km in summer. At 120km/h real speed, I doubt it is even 150km in winter

It looks like you have very regular trips of well over 200km. If I were you I'd buy a car that can handle those distances without having to charge. And you are then talking (apart from the Teslas) just one car, Hyundai Kona. In a few months time you will be able to buy the Kia eNiro for similar money as the Kona, both have the same 64kWh battery, same drivetrain and a very substantial range. But make no mistake, at 120km/h in winter I wouldn't expect the Kona to go any further than about 300km

I wouldn't rely on the public fast charging system if you do so much long distance driving. Only one car can charge at a time, and it is not very reliable. It will be a world of pain. That said, there is a new private charging network coming soon, called Ionity (search this forum for it). It will have about 9 chargers installed in Ireland soon where at least 6 cars can charge at the same time. If I were you, I would wait to see how this pans out, before buying a car. A modestly priced Ioniq could very well be more than adequate for your use provided the charging stations are convenient to you. It can charge really fast compared to most other EVs.

Thanks unkel.
Unfortunately the kona the e Niro and the Tesla’s are out of my price range. It seems the next best would be the ioniq or the Zoe, either that or I stick with my 2ltr insignia for a while longer and see if any of the more expensive cars take a dip in price, but I doubt that as they’re making so few of them.
Supply and demand I suppose.

unkel

EVs are holding their value exceptionally well. As you say, supply and demand. Supply is still very low and demand has shot up now that a lot of people realise the benefits of them and the fact that we will all be driving EVs soon enough.

I would like to tell you to ditch your dirty diesel and buy an EV, but in your case I would wait for a while to see how Ionity will pan out. No point to wait until Kona / Teslas drop to EUR25k, it won't happen for a long time.

slave1

By your post you will be in a lot of different areas and travelling quite a bit, we're not there yet with the infrastructure so you will encounter broken fast charge points and queues of cars waiting to charge which is not what you want with your driving pattern.
Get an efficient diesel/petrol and wait a few years for larger battery cars to go second hand...

KCross

tom1ie wrote: »

I will be visiting lots of sites all over Ireland so I need an ev that has a large range.

Can you flesh that out? Are you doing 300-500km's in a day on a regular basis or is it more like 200km max?

Whats your annual km's?


You sound like you are spending alot on diesel. It might pay to move to EV. More up front cost but savings in the long run, but it depends on your answers to the above.

tom1ie

KCross wrote: »

Can you flesh that out? Are you doing 300-500km's in a day on a regular basis or is it more like 200km max?

Whats your annual km's?


You sound like you are spending alot on diesel. It might pay to move to EV. More up front cost but savings in the long run, but it depends on your answers to the above.

So it’d be traveling 2 days a week, and then the remaining 3 just a commute of approx 20k.
Traveling would consist of anything from 100k round trip up to 600k round trip, but thats be a destination charger (extension lead plus granny cable) at 300k for approx 7 hrs.

KCross

tom1ie wrote: »

So it’d be traveling 2 days a week, and then the remaining 3 just a commute of approx 20k.
Traveling would consist of anything from 100k round trip up to 600k round trip, but thats be a destination charger (extension lead plus granny cable) at 300k for approx 7 hrs.

You're stuck then. 300km's twice a week is beyond the range of the affordable EV's(<€30k). 7hrs on a granny charger wont be enough to get you back either so that means you will be dependent on the public network... you dont want to go there.

It looks like diesel it is for you unless you can strecth to a €38k Kona EV, which you have already ruled out.

How much per month do you spend on diesel or what is your annual mileage? We can calculate the fuel savings and it might give you another data point to go on. You must have a whopping diesel bill?

If you really want to go EV then buy a cheap reliable diesel that is good for 2 years or so and then revisit the EV world and see what has arrived at that point.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

BMW i3 94 ah Rex does 170km on ev and then approx 130km on petrol for 50k. Very expensive!

Maybe new but I've seen some on carzone , 94 AH Rex for 27K. and 25,000 Kms

i3 is a go anywhere, anytime car once you got petrol in the tank, no charging on a long trip if you don't want to or if charger is down, blocked or there is a queue.

Fill with petrol in 8 seconds or charge in 30 mins, your choice, at least the Rex gives you the choice.

Even the 64 Ah i3 Rex will provide the best EV range by far than any PHEV available. And it's great fun to drive.

Saw 64 Ah i3 Rex , 151 Reg, 60,000 Kms 23,500 Euro's.

tom1ie

KCross wrote: »

You're stuck then. 300km's twice a week is beyond the range of the affordable EV's(<€30k). 7hrs on a granny charger wont be enough to get you back either so that means you will be dependent on the public network... you dont want to go there.

It looks like diesel it is for you unless you can strecth to a €38k Kona EV, which you have already ruled out.

How much per month do you spend on diesel or what is your annual mileage? We can calculate the fuel savings and it might give you another data point to go on. You must have a whopping diesel bill?

If you really want to go EV then buy a cheap reliable diesel that is good for 2 years or so and then revisit the EV world and see what has arrived at that point.

Well to be honest this is all theoretical at the moment as I haven’t started the job, but I had hoped to weigh up if it was worth going down the ev route at all.
You’ve given good advice though, maybe I’ll just hang onto the insignia, try and save a few bob, and see how the diesel bills play out for a little while and then make a decision.

tom1ie

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe new but I've seen some on carzone , 94 AH Rex for 27K. and 25,000 Kms

i3 is a go anywhere, anytime car once you got petrol in the tank, no charging on a long trip if you don't want to or if charger is down, blocked or there is a queue.

Fill with petrol in 8 seconds or charge in 30 mins, your choice, at least the Rex gives you the choice.

Even the 64 Ah i3 Rex will provide the best EV range by far than any PHEV available. And it's great fun to drive.

Saw 64 Ah i3 Rex , 151 Reg, 60,000 Kms 23,500 Euro's.

Yeah it’s an interesting car alright, as I understand it the I3 supports all types of charging (dc, fast ac, granny cable off a 13a etc)?
Is there any hints on the battery pack being upgradeable in the future from the 94ah? I’ve read about a 120ah battery pack but that it might not come as a Rex setup, just a bev.
I’ve read reviews that say the petrol engine is damn noisy, is it?
What’s the furthest range you’ve got out of it in ev mode in winter?
Thanks guys.

Gumbo

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah it’s an interesting car alright, as I understand it the I3 supports all types of charging (dc, fast ac, granny cable off a 13a etc)?
Is there any hints on the battery pack being upgradeable in the future from the 94ah? I’ve read about a 120ah battery pack but that it might not come as a Rex setup, just a bev.
I’ve read reviews that say the petrol engine is damn noisy, is it?
Thanks guys.

Bmw don’t make the Rex anymore.
The new 120ah BEV is their new way forward.

Shefwedfan

Just buy a 2015 eGolf, you will be sorted

tom1ie

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just buy a 2015 eGolf, you will be sorted

The range on a 2015 egolf is less than the i3 94ah Rex though no?
Lovely car all the same.

Shefwedfan

tom1ie wrote: »

The range on a 2015 egolf is less than the i3 94ah Rex though no?
Lovely car all the same.

Don’t worry about range, life too short
Just buy the car

tom1ie

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Don’t worry about range, life too short
Just buy the car

Lol! Eh no. Range is everything.

punisher5112

Peugeot is bringing out a 208 EV looks pretty cool. 50kw battery.

tom1ie

punisher5112 wrote: »

Peugeot is bringing out a 208 EV looks pretty cool. 50kw battery.

Yeah was looking at that on the other thread. 300kms range? That’s supposed to be close to real world figures aswell. Now that’s interesting. I wonder how fast it’ll charge?

Oh yeah I see that now. 100kw charging rate!? Nice.

Gumbo

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah was looking at that on the other thread. 300kms range? That’s supposed to be close to real world figures aswell. Now that’s interesting. I wonder how fast it’ll charge?

Oh yeah I see that now. 100kw charging rate!? Nice.

Have we got any 100kw chargers in Ireland though??

unkel

The first Ionity station should open in the next few weeks. 175kW at first but will be upgraded to 350kW later.

tom1ie

So if the pug has a 50kw battery, how quickly will that battery charge on a 100kw charger? Do we know how many ampere hours the battery would be?

Gumbo

tom1ie wrote: »

So if the pug has a 50kw battery, how quickly will that battery charge on a 100kw charger? Do we know how many ampere hours the battery would be?

50kWh Battery

If it can take 100kw charging, then technically, 30 mins from 0-100%, but in reality there would be buffer at the start and finish.

I'm not 100% clued in on ionity yet so not sure if it slows down towards the end.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

I'm not 100% clued in on ionity yet so not sure if it slows down towards the end.

It's other way around: Ionity will supply 175 kW towards the end of the charge when the battery voltage has gotten high enough *if* the car can accept high enough rate of charge. We won't cars like that for quite some time due to balancing at the top. On a liquid cooled battery 100 kW up to 70-75 percent might be possible so I expect this Peugeot to be a very rapid charging car indeed.

I suspect the 208 to charge in about 40-50 minutes from 10-80 percent using the current 50 kW max chargers and a bit quicker (35-40 mins) on a 100 kW or faster chargers.

The Leaf 60 was supposed to take 100 Kw and it turns out it charges more at 80 kw 100 Kw ramps down very quickly it seems.

I'd take the peugeot charging at 100 Kw with a grain of salt until it's tested.

Their official specs mention 30 minutes to 80 percent using 100 kW or faster charger. And it does have liquid cooling so seems plausible.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah it’s an interesting car alright, as I understand it the I3 supports all types of charging (dc, fast ac, granny cable off a 13a etc)?
Is there any hints on the battery pack being upgradeable in the future from the 94ah? I’ve read about a 120ah battery pack but that it might not come as a Rex setup, just a bev.
I’ve read reviews that say the petrol engine is damn noisy, is it?
What’s the furthest range you’ve got out of it in ev mode in winter?
Thanks guys.

It's more than interesting it's bloody addictive driving it, way more fun than an Egolf.

The 94 Ah charges at 11 Kw on 3 phase but you need to purchase a 3 phase lead separately but it's dead handy charging at 11 Kw ,10-90% in a little over 2 hrs maybe 2 hrs 20 mins.

It charges at single phase 7 Kw and 3.5 Kw and of course DC at 50 Kw, the 94 Ah charges a lot faster for the same time than the 60 Ah on the fast charger, the 60 Ah charge ramps down quickly while the 94 Ah takes full rate until about 85%.

The i3 S is supposed to be a lot more fun to drive, stiffer steering and better handling but the standard setup is fun.

You could try see if you could find a 2nd hand 94 Ah Rex S.

Yes they Rex was omitted for the 120 Ah , sadly, but only for Europe probably due to tax incentives for BMW. A foolish decision, I can't highlight enough the convenience of having the Rex as a backup, until the charging infrastructure "greatly" improves in a few years it's definitely a great feature to have.

I'm getting a loan of the 120 Ah on Thursday while my 94 Ah is in for service. They don't yet have the grant for the S and I wanted a drive in in badly.

Save yourself some cash and find a high spec 94 Ah Rex in the U.K or here if you can find one but before you make any decision test drive one and take it to some back roads and you will get out smiling. I test drove it and bought it a year later when my leaf lease was over, the leaf was a great reliable car but the i3 is a whole lot more !

If you get to a charger and there is a leaf 40 Kwh just after plugging in then you got potentially 50 mins - 1 hr wait for this charger to become usable and then you got to charge yourself or there could be 2 leaf 40 Kwh , one charging one waiting, the Rex means there is no chance you will get caught no matter what happens, charger down ? no problem, fire up the Rex and off you go again.

Range I get in Winter is 150-170-180 Kms depending on so many things.

Summer 170-230+

But it's the longest range of any Pug in and is essentially the same or more than a lot of fully electric cars on the road but with the huge advantage of never getting stuck or hanging around at chargers.

The chargers will improve in the next few years but in the meantime the Rex offers huge advantages over BEV.

samih

samih wrote: »

Their official specs mention 30 minutes to 80 percent using 100 kW or faster charger. And it does have liquid cooling so seems plausible.

The Leaf 60 Official specs were good too until not long ago.

_Brian

I’m of the mind to say op needs a diesel for the moment. And hopefully within three years battery life and infrastructure will catch up.

However, how about an ev to suit the regular commute and then hire a go car or similar for long commutes.

Or buy a diesel and use a bike on the regular commute to offset the diesel use ??

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

I’m of the mind to say op needs a diesel for the moment. And hopefully within three years battery life and infrastructure will catch up.

However, how about an ev to suit the regular commute and then hire a go car or similar for long commutes.

Or buy a diesel and use a bike on the regular commute to offset the diesel use ??

I don't need a Diesel and can take the i3 Rex anywhere, he could , if it's suitable, get a 2nd hand 33 Kwh Rex and save some money over a brand new BEV with more range.

The i3 offers, by far, the highest ev range of any plug in and is the only one 100% driven by the electric motor 100% of the time.

The i3 offers as much and sometimes more pure EV range than some BEV on the road today and it really is a great car.

OP, I posted this in the wrong thead so copying it here too.

I would not currently buy a pure EV if you regularly need to travel beyond chargers dedicated to you (home, work, relatives). Regularly for me would be trips that you absolutely have to take on regular basis more than maybe once a month.

But I have no problem driving to the other end of the country relying on public charging a handful of times a year once there are no strict timelines. If you are guaranteed to be able to granny charge at far away work sites for multiple hours a day I would definitely get a Kona EV if I was you. Having to stop at a charger on the way home every so often wouldn't be so bad compared to filling up with 50 quid of diesel potentially twice a week. Bring a good book and enjoy a relaxing coffee break. You can charge about 100 km of range or even a bit more during a workday from a 13 A socket.

tom1ie

Hmmm this is all food for thought. The kona is just too damn expensive.
The i3 seems like a good shout, but again I’d still be putting in fuel, which I’d love to be able to get away from altogether.
The soon to be available 208e and corsa e seem very interesting though, but the specs could be blown out of proportion. Think I might wait and see but keep an eye on i3 94ah Rex prices and deals.

Shefwedfan

VW will have ID range out next year. Supposed to start at 25k for lower range 320km model and then they will have 500km model. Thread on here with lots of info.

Main points, same size as eGolf but the interior will be same as a Passat. 200+ BHP rear wheel drive. Range as above. Supposed to be in around same cost as diesel Golf.

Pre-order will be available in Q2 and it will be online, you will not buy from VW dealer. Some video's as well but interior not shown yet. MIght be option to preorder and take delivery in Q4 2018/Q1 next year

unkel

tom1ie wrote: »

The i3 seems like a good shout, but again I’d still be putting in fuel, which I’d love to be able to get away from altogether.

You could still avoid most fuel use if you use the public charging network (and soon the Ionity network) any time you can, you have a bit of spare time and there are no queues

I'd say your putting in fuel could be very minimal if you put in a bit of effort

If you don't have time, don't want to publicly charge and you don't want anything but an EV, your only choices are Tesla, Kona and soon eNiro. Not sure what sort of real life range the Leaf 62 will have and how fast it can charge in this country in real life with its lack of cooling. Probably nowhere near as good on both fronts compared to Kona / eNiro

Shefwedfan

Personally I don't see the point of the i3, it's a PHEV with a bigger battery....cue cries from Mad_Lad

I did look at it but the 4 seats made it a non runner but looking at it now I don't see the point. You are still relying on petrol engine. With the market going to start getting loads of options in the next 18 months I would just hold out, personally.....

The only reason I would buy the i3 if it was in a large 7 seater type vehicle when you can run most of the time on battery but need the back up of a normal engine. But in a small car with the option around and coming it just seems a waste....

Now I do understand the reasons why people have bought them, but with Ionity and the public network finally getting upgrade. With cars coming out with 50-60kWh batteries then I think it is just redundant technology now

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

The i3 seems like a good shout, but again I’d still be putting in fuel, which I’d love to be able to get away from altogether.

That's just it, you don't have to if you don't want to , that's the beauty of the Rex , it gives you options impossible with BEV.

You can charge at fast chargers plug in at 3 phase AC street chargers and charge 10-90% in about 2 hr 20 mins or even 1 hr saves you time at fast chargers.

Rex is your get out of jail card that not even the Kona can offer with it's extra range , when out and about it will still need the network sooner or later.

Remember the ESB are introducing charges for using the charge points so it might not even be much more expensive to use the Rex making it even better value !

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Personally I don't see the point of the i3, it's a PHEV with a bigger battery....cue cries from Mad_Lad

I did look at it but the 4 seats made it a non runner but looking at it now I don't see the point. You are still relying on petrol engine. With the market going to start getting loads of options in the next 18 months I would just hold out, personally.....

No Cries from me at all , it's up to the individual what they buy , I'm just trying to highlight the benefits of the Rex.

The point of the Rex is that it's available 2nd hand a lot cheaper than the Kona and has the backup when it's needed and it offers choice which a BEV can not provide.

Rex avoids the potential very long queues at charge points ,40 Kwh leafs, 60 Kwh Kona , next year 60 Kwh Leaf etc so waits at chargers could get much longer until the network improves.

Even with the best network the Rex eliminates the need to charge if needing to get to the destination quick.

Since I went from BEV I never looked back, even the Kona would need to use public chargers when away from home for a few days or more and at this point in time I would not like to rely on the network again until it improves a lot.

Oh and in case I never mentioned it, the i3 is a lot of fun to drive !

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

with Ionity and the public network finally getting upgrade. With cars coming out with 50-60kWh batteries then I think it is just redundant technology now

BMW agree with you. The new model with the bigger 42kWh battery is no longer available with a REx

And on a personal level I agree with you too. I'd be interested in an i3 (as a second car), but BEV only for me

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

No Cries from me at all , it's up to the individual what they buy , I'm just trying to highlight the benefits of the Rex.

The point of the Rex is that it's available 2nd hand a lot cheaper than the Kona and has the backup when it's needed and it offers choice which a BEV can not provide.

Rex avoids the potential very long queues at charge points ,40 Kwh leafs, 60 Kwh Kona , next year 60 Kwh Leaf etc so waits at chargers could get much longer until the network improves.

Even with the best network the Rex eliminates the need to charge if needing to get to the destination quick.

Since I went from BEV I never looked back, even the Kona would need to use public chargers when away from home for a few days or more and at this point in time I would not like to rely on the network again until it improves a lot.

Oh and in case I never mentioned it, the i3 is a lot of fun to drive !

Ok public chargers are busy now because of the range of the cars and also because it is free. See how many people will queue for a charger when they have to pay for the privalege.



Plenty of fast chargers are blocked by people looking for a free fill and they have no consideration for other people. Airport one for instance.



Also with longer range the less people will need to charge. How many people in the Dublin area will need to charge a 50kWh Peugeot for instance? once a week if they have no charger at home or just trickle charge every night


At the moment with L24/L30 etc you are restricted and have to charge majority of days......


Im nothaving a pop at REX, I did consider it once but that was 12 months ago when 2020 seemed like an eternity away. Now it ain't so far :P

mordeith

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Im nothaving a pop at REX, I did consider it once but that was 12 months ago when 2020 seemed like an eternity away. Now it ain't so far :P

Yes but time moves more slowly here

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok public chargers are busy now because of the range of the cars and also because it is free. See how many people will queue for a charger when they have to pay for the privalege.



Plenty of fast chargers are blocked by people looking for a free fill and they have no consideration for other people. Airport one for instance.



Also with longer range the less people will need to charge. How many people in the Dublin area will need to charge a 50kWh Peugeot for instance? once a week if they have no charger at home or just trickle charge every night


At the moment with L24/L30 etc you are restricted and have to charge majority of days......


Im nothaving a pop at REX, I did consider it once but that was 12 months ago when 2020 seemed like an eternity away. Now it ain't so far :P

I'm not just talking about the town chargers I'm talking about the chargers closest the motorways, they are also busy and I doubt many people are using them just for free juice.

The more people with electric cars the greater strain on the network, throw people with no home charging into the mix and they still might not need to charge more than once a week but that's individually, when you got a lot more electrics the greater the chance of chargers being busy.

So Rex is as relevant today as ever. Even the Kona is going to have to depend on the network probably as much as I do in reality but it will still need to be charged when away from home.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not just talking about the town chargers I'm talking about the chargers closest the motorways, they are also busy and I doubt many people are using them just for free juice.

The more people with electric cars the greater strain on the network, throw people with no home charging into the mix and they still might not need to charge more than once a week but that's individually, when you got a lot more electrics the greater the chance of chargers being busy.

So Rex is as relevant today as ever. Even the Kona is going to have to depend on the network probably as much as I do in reality but it will still need to be charged when away from home.

Go to Cavan today and the only fast charger is in Navan. This is used as a home charger for people in Navan and not used at all for commuters. You will find this all around Ireland.



Dublin airport, a staff member blocked the charger with her L24 everyday she is in work and walks over to airport. for her entire shift it is blocked....

I'm well aware of the charging difficulties remember who got the Rex ?

Shefwedfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm well aware of the charging difficulties remember who got the Rex ?

It doesn’t affect me either

Just making the point a petrol strap on in a few months will be obsolete

Few months ? really ?