Switching from LPG central heating to oil?

tony glenn

We live on a small housing estate, built about ten years ago, where all the houses were originally heated by Calor LPG, from a bulk tank on the development.
We signed up with Calor to run our heating, but it's an expensive way to keep warm....even using the 12 month level-pay scheme, it's costing us 100 euro every month of the year. That's two of us, being very cautious with CH use, in a modern, well insulated house.
Any saving would be welcome, so we're thinking of converting to oil, but obviously it will involve a significant initial outlay, between the boiler, tank and labour.
We'd appreciate any comments or opinions from other couples who've made the switch to oil from LPG. Without going into too much detail, quite simply: Was it a good move, and have you noticed a significant reduction in your heating bills?

tony glenn

tony glenn wrote: »

We live on a small housing estate, built about ten years ago, where all the houses were originally heated by Calor LPG, from a bulk tank on the development.
We signed up with Calor to run our heating, but it's an expensive way to keep warm....even using the 12 month level-pay scheme, it's costing us 100 euro every month of the year. That's two of us, being very cautious with CH use, in a modern, well insulated house.
Any saving would be welcome, so we're thinking of converting to oil, but obviously it will involve a significant initial outlay, between the boiler, tank and labour.
We'd appreciate any comments or opinions from other couples who've made the switch to oil from LPG. Without going into too much detail, quite simply: Was it a good move, and have you noticed a significant reduction in your heating bills?

There are benefits with gas that are rarely used, you can have more precise controls with weather compensation which can have a big impact on usage, you can fit a combi allowing for much lower rad temperatures and no stored water to maintain which again can help, oil flames are one size where a gas flame modulates which offers more controllability and reduced costs.

listermint

Does that cost not also give you all the hot water you want. Seems fairly reasonable.?

John.G

tony glenn wrote: »

We live on a small housing estate, built about ten years ago, where all the houses were originally heated by Calor LPG, from a bulk tank on the development.
We signed up with Calor to run our heating, but it's an expensive way to keep warm....even using the 12 month level-pay scheme, it's costing us 100 euro every month of the year. That's two of us, being very cautious with CH use, in a modern, well insulated house.
Any saving would be welcome, so we're thinking of converting to oil, but obviously it will involve a significant initial outlay, between the boiler, tank and labour.
We'd appreciate any comments or opinions from other couples who've made the switch to oil from LPG. Without going into too much detail, quite simply: Was it a good move, and have you noticed a significant reduction in your heating bills?

You might care to post a snapshot of your last bill (without personal details) or cost details from it and a more accurate calculation of savings can be made.

Idbatterim

The pay back time and effort will be ridiculous!

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

You might care to post a snapshot of your last bill (without personal details) or cost details from it and a more accurate calculation of savings can be made.

Latest bill;
Period 1/11/18 to 23/1/19
Gas used @ 2.97 (per cubic metre?) 291.37 euro
Standing charge 84 days 28.13
Total, including vat and carbon tax: 319.50
And that was a relatively mild three months.

John.G

tony glenn wrote: »

Latest bill;
Period 1/11/18 to 23/1/19
Gas used @ 2.97 (per cubic metre?) 291.37 euro
Standing charge 84 days 28.13
Total, including vat and carbon tax: 319.50
And that was a relatively mild three months.

OK then, if I am using the correct conversion factor of 26.4 kwh/m3 then the price was €0.1125/kwh, I just got a kero fill a few days ago @ €0.69/litre or €0.065/kwh but I think it would be a fairer comparison to use the kero cost in my previous fill in November @ €0.77/litre or €0.073/kwh then the LPG was 54% more expensive (apart from standing charge)

You used, again if my conversion factor is correct, only 2590 kwh for that 84 day period or 31 kwh/day (a excellent, very low figure).
If you had been using a oil fired boiler at same efficiency then it would have cost you, 2590*0.073, €189 for that same period, a saving of €130.

If you estimate a 240 day heating season then the saving, assuming the same usage, would be €371/annum energy cost, + say €122 standing charge = €493/annum.
If your boiler is a HE (condensing) boiler and not in need of replacement get a estimate of the oil boiler installation cost before making any decision.

I will inform if my conversion factor above is incorrect or otherwise.

Edit: Its accurate enough I think.

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

OK then, if I am using the correct conversion factor of 26.4 kwh/m3 then the price was €0.1125/kwh, I just got a kero fill a few days ago @ €0.69/litre or €0.065/kwh but I think it would be a fairer comparison to use the kero cost in my previous fill in November @ €0.77/litre or €0.073/kwh then the LPG was 54% more expensive (apart from standing charge)
You used, again if my conversion factor is correct, only 2590 kwh for that 84 day period or 31 kwh/day (a excellent, very low figure).
If you had been using a oil fired boiler at same efficiency then it would have cost you, 2590*0.073, €189 for that same period, a saving of €130.

If you estimate a 240 day heating season then the saving, assuming the same usage, would be €371/annum energy cost, + say €122 standing charge = €493/annum.
If your boiler is a HE (condensing) boiler and not in need of replacement get a estimate of the oil boiler installation cost before making any decision.

I will inform if my conversion factor above is incorrect or otherwise.

Edit: Its accurate enough I think.

Many thanks for the detailed reply, much appreciated. It would seem that there would be a significant saving using oil.
Obviously, I take the point regarding outlay and payback, but the same logic could be applied to solar panels, triple glazing, or even switching to a hybrid car.
A big plus would be having a choice of fuel supplier. Being tied to Calor Gas means not being able to shop around when prices rise.
The present gas boiler is over ten years old, so I'm assuming a new oil boiler would be more efficient btw.

John.G

If the old boiler is a SE (NON condensing) boiler then you will save a additional 7 to 10%, if you post the make/model or google it it will tell you.

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

If the old boiler is a SE (NON condensing) boiler then you will save a additional 7 to 10%, if you post the make/model or google it it will tell you.

No boiler purchased yet, we're still at the 'let's look into switching to oil' stage. Credit Union next lol!

John.G

tony glenn wrote: »

No boiler purchased yet, we're still at the 'let's look into switching to oil' stage. Credit Union next lol!

Very good, you will have no choice when/if buying a new boiler as they are all condensing (which is good) boilers, however if your present boiler is non condensing then you can add on another ~ 10% to the savings, maybe a bit unfairly because even if your own (gas) boiler packed up in the morning you would be replacing it with a condensing boiler anyway, but I don't think that 10% will have changed your mind, good luck.

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

Very good, you will have no choice when/if buying a new boiler as they are all condensing (which is good) boilers, however if your present boiler is non condensing then you can add on another ~ 10% to the savings, maybe a bit unfairly because even if your own (gas) boiler packed up in the morning you would be replacing it with a condensing boiler anyway, but I don't think that 10% will have changed your mind, good luck.

Thanks! As the present boiler is the original, and therefore over ten years old, can I assume it's not a condensing model?

John.G

tony glenn wrote: »

Thanks! As the present boiler is the original, and therefore over ten years old, can I assume it's not a condensing model?

Can you post the make/model?

Markcheese

tony glenn wrote: »

Thanks! As the present boiler is the original, and therefore over ten years old, can I assume it's not a condensing model?

Nope... My boiler is a condensing boiler, and it's about 10 years old, and wasn't anything special when fitted.

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

Can you post the make/model?

It's a HEATLINE COMPACT. No other markings on the casing.

John.G

tony glenn wrote: »

It's a HEATLINE COMPACT. No other markings on the casing.

Had a quick look through some heatline catalogue but strangely enough it didn't mention the word condensing anywhere.

Look, if you just use the calcs in post #6 above then you will not be too far out in your savings.

Just one other thing, I presume that you have a hot water cylinder in your house?? and that your boiler isn't a combi(nation) boiler that supplies both the CH and hot water without a cylinder.

blackbox

Oil is cheaper to run than LPG, but as you are currently on a communal system you would need to check your contract before you change.

There may be a long notice period or you might be committed to a contract for x years from when it was installed.

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

Had a quick look through some heatline catalogue but strangely enough it didn't mention the word condensing anywhere.

Look, if you just use the calcs in post #6 above then you will not be too far out in your savings.
Just one other thing, I presume that you have a hot water cylinder in your house?? and that your boiler isn't a combi(nation) boiler that supplies both the CH and hot water without a cylinder.

There's an immersion tank in the hot press, in the Summer we heat it through a timer by electricity, in the Winter the tank heats whenever the central heating is on. There's also downstairs and upstairs wall thermostats which enable us to heat upstairs, downstairs or both.

tony glenn

blackbox wrote: »

Oil is cheaper to run than LPG, but as you are currently on a communal system you would need to check your contract before you change.

There may be a long notice period or you might be committed to a contract for x years from when it was installed.

Good thinking. I'll check tonight!

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

Had a quick look through some heatline catalogue but strangely enough it didn't mention the word condensing anywhere.

Look, if you just use the calcs in post #6 above then you will not be too far out in your savings.

Just one other thing, I presume that you have a hot water cylinder in your house?? and that your boiler isn't a combi(nation) boiler that supplies both the CH and hot water without a cylinder.

Two final questions (?)
1)Very ball-park expected cost for a boiler, oil tank, pump and fittings? Medium 4-bed semi, eleven rads.
2) Suggested best boiler choice?

John.G

(1)No idea of costs
(2) Grant would seem to be the boiler of choice but Firebird maybe not far behind.

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

(1)No idea of costs
(2) Grant would seem to be the boiler of choice but Firebird maybe not far behind.

Just saw your reply, many thanks for your assistance and advice.

tony glenn

Well, job done. We've switched from LPG to oil, and are free at last to be able to choose fuel suppliers. The boiler switch went smoothly and the plumber did a great job overall
Having said that, my wife is now convinced that the system is taking longer to heat the radiators. One hour of LPG heating used to be enough to bring the house to a comfortable temperature, now it seems to take longer with the oil boiler.
Any suggestions or advice welcome, before I contact the plumber and query the situation?
Could my wife be right? (as so often in the past)

John.G

If the output from your new boiler is the same as your old LPG one then the house heat up time should be almost identical.
Your new boiler (make?) normally come in three ranges, 50/70,70/90 & 90/120 (x1000 btus) which = 15/21kw, 21/26kw & 26/35kw so you would have to know which range model has been installed and what burner nozzle is fitted, its probably in your users manual.
My 2005 SE Firebird was a 70/90, 21/26kw, which outputs 21kw.

tony glenn

John.G wrote: »

If the output from your new boiler is the same as your old LPG one then the house heat up time should be almost identical.
Your new boiler (make?) normally come in three ranges, 50/70,70/90 & 90/120 (x1000 btus) which = 15/21kw, 21/26kw & 26/35kw so you would have to know which range model has been installed and what burner nozzle is fitted, its probably in your users manual.
My 2005 SE Firebird was a 70/90, 2
1/26kw, which outputs 21kw.

Thanks for the reply. The new boiler is a Firebird Envirogreen Heatpac, 20-26kw. It replaced a Heatline Compact LPG boiler btw.

Wearb

tony glenn wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. The new boiler is a Firebird Envirogreen Heatpac, 20-26kw. It replaced a Heatline Compact LPG boiler btw.

Do you have a combustion report printout? It would be part of the commissioning report. You should also have details of the output it was setup for?

tony glenn

Wearb wrote: »

Do you have a combustion report printout? It would be part of the commissioning report. You should also have details of the output it was setup for?

I have all the detailed paperwork, maybe I should just get back to the plumber involved and double -check the settings etc. Thanks for your input, much appreciated.