SIMI import hypocrisy

deezell

Yet again we have calls from the Irish motor industry to ban diesel imports, because the older pre 2014 cars are " dirtier" .
https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/new-emission-figures-published-today-highlight-need-to-ban-older-dirtier-uk-diesels-37831389.html
Latest cries of wolf come from Magee of Renault, and McCarthy of Nissan, as they shamelessly seek government support for their agenda to control the imports of used cars, using ludicrous comparisons between older and newer models. Ignoring the fact that the figures guoted are averages, only show a modest difference between 113g and 121g, and do not compare model for model improvements or changes. The thrust of their argument is a complete ban on all pre 2014 cars, (unless they are the one's importing of course).
The logic of this is that all indigenous pre 2014 cars should be taken off the road. Or any gas guzzler of any year whose emissions breach this magical guoted new average, ( which is massaged by inclusion of electric zero emission figures, itself a contractdiction, as fuel has to burned somewhere to charge them).
If ever an industry needed a kick up the arse in response. Current VRT on used cars is already excessive, as the OMSP is a product of SIMI connivance, with little base in reality. They may get their wish with a hard brexit, but they are fools if they think it will hand them back to them totalitarian control of the car sourcing and sales market.
It's not long ago that one had to pay a weeks wages to an optician for a €10 pair of reading glasses, before common sense intervened. No industry can be made the self appointed guardian's of free trade. We've had and have plenty of experience of that, from taxi licences to prescription charges, and myriad other monopolies. It's annoying that you can no longer rebuff the Indo, so show your ire here.

colm_mcm

FWIW, I think a lot of cars OMSPs are below their value. Agree that the SIMI stance on imports is laughable though.

CJhaughey

Upping VRT would be counterproductive, the VRT take over the last few years must be a tidy sum.
No self respecting government would allow that kind of moola to be hijacked by a bunch of self serving fools.

RedorDead

With new cars its not possible to bring higher polluting cars into Ireland anymore as emissions regulations are far stricter than ever before. Without being a environmental tree hugging loonie about it, why should we tolerate it with used cars any longer? On purely environmental grounds id like to see it stop. UK are just using Ireland as a dumping ground for EU3-5 cars that emit extremely high levels of Nox versus todays cleaner engines.

UK has gone 35% diesel in new cars yet 80% of our imports from the UK are diesel - why? Because they are being pushed out of there by dealers trying to get shut of them.

Toyotafanboi

RedorDead wrote: »

UK are just using Ireland as a dumping ground for EU3-5 cars that emit extremely high levels of Nox versus todays cleaner engines.

This phrase is used a lot on here.

It implies that the UK are targeting these cars as Ireland or that there is some sort of active process in the UK to move those vehicles over here. As far as I'm aware there is nothing like that in place.

The reason those cars are coming over here is because Irish people (whether it he private individuals or dealers) want them and are willing to travel to get them.

We are actually hosting the upgrading of the UK fleet through our own free will.

RedorDead wrote: »

UK has gone 35% diesel in new cars yet 80% of our imports from the UK are diesel - why? Because they are being pushed out of there by dealers trying to get shut of them.

The answer to the"why?" Is because we want to purchase them. Nobody has a gun to anyones head to go to the UK to buy a used diesel as their next purchase. The problem is, even on here, it's widely recommended as a good idea by the Irish.

Squidgy Black

RedorDead wrote: »

With new cars its not possible to bring higher polluting cars into Ireland anymore as emissions regulations are far stricter than ever before. Without being a environmental tree hugging loonie about it, why should we tolerate it with used cars any longer? On purely environmental grounds id like to see it stop. UK are just using Ireland as a dumping ground for EU3-5 cars that emit extremely high levels of Nox versus todays cleaner engines.

UK has gone 35% diesel in new cars yet 80% of our imports from the UK are diesel - why? Because they are being pushed out of there by dealers trying to get shut of them.

The UK aren't using Ireland for anything when it comes to diesel cars, it's the Irish population and Irish dealers who are travelling across and buying diesel cars that the UK are trying to get rid of.

deezell

RedorDead wrote: »

With new cars its not possible to bring higher polluting cars into Ireland anymore as emissions regulations are far stricter than ever before. Without being a environmental tree hugging loonie about it, why should we tolerate it with used cars any longer? On purely environmental grounds id like to see it stop. UK are just using Ireland as a dumping ground for EU3-5 cars that emit extremely high levels of Nox versus todays cleaner engines.

UK has gone 35% diesel in new cars yet 80% of our imports from the UK are diesel - why? Because they are being pushed out of there by dealers trying to get shut of them.

Thats just SIMI Bo***x talk. By your logic we should force owners of Irish bought cars of the same ilk to scrap them. A 2013 diesel bought in Ireland has the same emissions as a 2013 diesel bought in the UK, the only difference is where it was bought originally. Do you want to ban the sales of Irish bought cars identical to the contested imports? I doubt it. Its got nothing to do with emissions, and every thing to do with SIMI wanting to control second hand sales and prices. Scarcity will up the price of used cars. More money for them. By inference you ( and they) are suggesting a quota system, whwere the national car fleet must have a high percentage of new cars. that occurs over time, but Simi would live if legislation imports forced car buyers into new vehicle, because decent used stock was not available.
Use of language like "dumping" is also unsavoury. People import cars. dealers sell them. they sell at the market price. No one is "dumping" anything

Stallingrad

Was walking around MSL Mercedes the other day, a fresh delivery of UK Mercs, the forecourt was stuffed with them.

Keary's (Cork) have set up an entire showroom dedicated to UK imports CarStore, every car I test drove there was a UK import. Windsor (Dundrum at least) imported my wife's 141 V70 2.4L D5, not a pre-order. Was just off the boat when we test drove it

So I call bollocks on this

CJhaughey

Maybe this is an effect of a lot of PCP cars suddenly appearing back in dealers yards and them not being able to shift them at an adequate profit?

deezell

Yes, they have nothing against imports as long as it's just them doing it. Sadly, brexit may force VAT on used imports without the means to remove the matching UK residual VAT at export, as many used UK cars are sold without a VAT split and potential refund. Dealers who are VAT registered will no doubt make arrangements with their opposites in UK, I don't know the implications for private importers but rest assured dealers are lobbying to corner imports post Brexit.

deezell

CJhaughey wrote: »

Maybe this is an effect of a lot of PCP cars suddenly appearing back in dealers yards and them not being able to shift them at an adequate profit?

Funny you should say that, I called off a private import on a Quattro last year when I spotted a heavily discounted one with a 2 year main dealer warranty. PCP job on the lot from Jan 2018 till August. Couldn't have imported it for close to what I paid. Happy days.

Toyotafanboi

CJhaughey wrote: »

Maybe this is an effect of a lot of PCP cars suddenly appearing back in dealers yards and them not being able to shift them at an adequate profit?

I don't think so, how would that work? Theres no sudden surge of PCP cars returning out of the blue and even if there was, how would bringing in UK imports solve it?

CJhaughey

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I don't think so, how would that work? Theres no sudden surge of PCP cars returning out of the blue and even if there was, how would bringing in UK imports solve it?

Dealers will be starting to get in more ex PCP cars not a flood but a steady trickle and if someone can import a car from the UK cheaper then the dealer can sell it for the dealer will be stuck with it unless they drop their price.

As Deezell has said they have to heavily discount them to move them on, and maybe they don't like discounting.

colm_mcm

Somebody please show me these really cheap diesels that are being gotten rid of in the UK.

ShadowHearth

CJhaughey wrote: »

Maybe this is an effect of a lot of PCP cars suddenly appearing back in dealers yards and them not being able to shift them at an adequate profit?

Some brands found great solution for those cars. Seat is doing 2.9% apr PCP on 2015-2018 cars. That makes these cars very attractive again. It was really stupid, when you could get brand new car on zero apr or 1.9%, but a demo would go 9% if you would buy with bank loan. It was cheaper or same to buy new over 1-2 year old car.
So far only VW bank group that does it. VW offers even 1.9% on second hand PCP.
Audi does second hand pcp, but I am not sure about apr.

If you ask me, it was a very smart move. Almost pulled the trigger on Seat Leon estate 184hp high spec ex demo 182 last week.

alias no.9

colm_mcm wrote: »

Somebody please show me these really cheap diesels that are being gotten rid of in the UK.

They're literally walking up and down the street shouting 'Anyone buying or selling diesel's' and when they hear an Irish accent, they run their hands together with glee.

deezell

colm_mcm wrote: »

Somebody please show me these really cheap diesels that are being gotten rid of in the UK.

Exactly, it's a SIMI propaganda exercise. They're relatively cheaper IF the VRT is not high, or if they are so old that the VRT is greatly reduced by depreciation, but this only happens when the CO2 emissions are low, contradicting the "dirty" angle. It's difficult to bring in a high cc " clean" petrol car because the VRT is huge, while the same car here will be cheaper because you can't give away a big cc used petrol car due to the huge road tax. Audi hardly sold a single 2L TFSi car after 2008, road tax leaped from 710 to 1200, and VRT leaped also though the car is "clean" , just a small bit thirsty. The NOX emissions mentioned are not currently part of emissions calculations pertaining to VRT, so older higher NOX cars are labelled "dirty" compared to the newer models, which require complex and expensive technology to reduce NOX for the US market. Dealers have latched onto this, a few years ago they couldn't spell NOX. (It was NOX emissions which caused the VW scandal in the US, not CO2, or even worse, Diesel particulate, which is not a factor in VRT but is, in a manner, in your NCT).
Bottom line, if it's ok to sell a used car which was originally new in Ireland, then it's ok to sell the same car from the UK. If the Govt listen to the tools in SIMI and place a special extra tax on older diesel imports, then they'll have to add it to indigenous used cars as soon as they come up for resale, as they are just as " dirty". Not going to happen.

bazz26

The irony is that the SIMI had no problem riding the diesel boom wave here for the last 10 or 11 years. They don't give a **** about the environment or anything else other than trying to monopolise and protect the used car market in the interest of their own members. Given that I'd say a large majority of their members sell UK imports themselves and make good money from them, it's no surprise they speak from both sides of their mouth.

CJhaughey

bazz26 wrote: »

The irony is that the SIMI had no problem riding the diesel boom wave here for the last 10 or 11 years. They don't give a **** about the environment or anything else other than trying to monopolise and protect the used car market in the interest of their own members. Given that I'd say a large majority of their members sell UK imports themselves and make good money from them, it's no surprise they speak from both sides of their mouth.

I'd say they are speaking out of another orifice.

deezell

The SIMI F*****S are at it again
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/new-car-sales-slump-as-ireland-becomes-dumping-ground-for-older-cars-uk-doesnt-want-38366232.html

Listen to this sh!te; "Ireland’s taxation system overburdens new cars, causing motorists either to hang on to their older, smokier cars or look to the UK for an older import. Over the last three years we have imported 150,000 cars that do not meet the latest EU emission standards, which in effect means Ireland has become the dumping ground for older cars the UK doesn’t want,” Mr Cooke said."

Any used car does not have to meet used car emissions standard of 2019, it has to meet the emission standard for it's year when new, reduced to take in normal wear and tear. Exceed this and you fail the NCT.
Have test driven a few Mazdas recently, an Irish reg 151 and 171, and some imports. The engine and clutch in the 171 with 84,000 miles was shot, stinking and powerless. the 151 was unloved, strained drivers door and ECU warnings on the dash. The imports were immaculate, drove beautifully. In the end we've just come back from UK with a 172 for 3K less than nearest available her. Looks new, feels new, immaculate and fully, fully loaded.

Toyotafanboi

He has a point about the taxation on new cars though, it's huge.

Maybe if we got real with the tax on new vehicles here, you could have gotten a brand new Mazda here instead of having to get a second hand vehicle from the UK.

There's a lot of swings and roundabouts to the whole thing in fairness, while it's true we are bringing in older cars, not at the latest EU standards, of course a newer fleet of low emissions cars would be nicer, but maybe in the grander scheme when production and transport is taken into account, maintaining a slightly older fleet could be more environmentally friendly than mass producing millions of cars that emit only slightly less than the ones they replace.

mgbgt1978

Christ. They just get worse every Month. They are like a Fellow with a comb-over, wearing a Check-shirt and a stripy tie, with slightly tinted glasses, who couldn't even get a shot at a Radio Interview....never mind TV.
Most of what he seems to be against is on half the SIMI Forecourts in the Country.
The way Cooke tries to describe it sounds like the UK are simply sending Cars over here on Ships hoping we will buy them.
The SIMI do the Motor trade absolutely no favours whatsoever.....and yet the majority of the trade pay them a yearly subscription ???? :rolleyes:


WORST LOBBY GROUP EVER

deezell

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

.......They are like a Fellow with a comb-over, wearing a Check-shirt and a stripy tie, with slightly tinted glasses.....

Yes! That particular sleazebag is omnipresent in every influential aspect of Irish life since the foundation of the Free State. On every town committee, council, lobby group and parish pump. His biggest mantra? Do as I say, not as I do. Usually has a name somthing like Patsy "stroker" Murphy-Fay or similar. Pat Short, take note.

The Cope?

road_high

colm_mcm wrote: »

Somebody please show me these really cheap diesels that are being gotten rid of in the UK.

Me too. Because I certainly ain’t seeing them. Anything remotely nice and tasty from England is still strong money used here. The garages importing are well able to charge up. Guy near me is charging almost dealer money for prestige stuff without the workshop of said makes. I’d personally take a long hard look before buying myself from one of these guys, they seem to have mushroomed over the past few years