Vintage/Veteran and Classic....

swarlb

From what I know about 'old cars' the rule of thumb regarding the age of a vehicle is as follows...
Antique/Edwardian pre 1905
Veteran 1905-1918
Vintage or 'pre war' 1919-1945
Classic 1946-1987

Now I realise that 'classic' is these days (especially in Ireland) a very moot issue, as almost anything old is considered a classic, or at the very least if it's 20 years old or more it may be considered 'classic' for insurance purposes.

Flicking through Donedeal these days is a rather pointless exercise, as almost anything remotely 'old' is now considered a 'vintage' car.

https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/skoda-octavia-vrs-2002-mint-condition/20706964

Isambard

doesn't really matter to me what you call them, a rose by any other name....

swarlb

Isambard wrote: »

doesn't really matter to me what you call them, a rose by any other name....

So basically what you are saying is that 'any car' can be considered a 'vintage car' regardless of what age it is ?

Isambard

i said nothing of the sort.

swarlb

Isambard wrote: »

i said nothing of the sort.

You didn't really address my original post, except to say that it doesn't matter to you what they are called.... that's why I asked the question
'should 'any car' be considered 'vintage' regardless of age. ?

elperello

I think it's no harm to have the different "classes" as you outlined in the OP.
It allows enthusiasts to have limits for events like London to Brighton or the Gordon Bennett.

As for more modern cars, the lines are blurred a bit by the insurance reduction not coinciding with the tax concession. In itself this doesn't really disadvantage anybody and the insurance reduction probably helps to keep some 20 plus cars on the road.

You are right that Donedeal don't seem to be too strict with what can be advertised as Vintage. Irish Vintage Scene have a separate category for post '89 cars. It doesn't bother me to see a nineties car advertised as Vintage. Anybody buying will have done their homework and browsers will just skip over anything they don't like.

Isambard

there's a distinction between the car in the ad (a VRS) and a run of the mill Skoda. a 17 year old collectible car in good original condition could indeed be considered a classic. I don't see the problem in it's owner putting it in the vintage section to separate it from the run of the mill dross.

Max Headroom

IMO..even 1987 is pushing it for a classic....anything after 1980 is retro ..just my opinion tho....

Dades

Max Headroom wrote: »

IMO..even 1987 is pushing it for a classic....anything after 1980 is retro ..just my opinion tho....

That's a generational observation. A 1981 car is 38 years old. Back in 2000, were cars from 1963 just retro?

Whatever about vintage, "classic" is a subjective term that anyone can apply to anything they feel deserves it. We can't, or won't ever all agree!

swarlb

Dades wrote: »

That's a generational observation. A 1981 car is 38 years old. Back in 2000, were cars from 1963 just retro?

Whatever about vintage, "classic" is a subjective term that anyone can apply to anything they feel deserves it. We can't, or won't ever all agree!

Except the title of the section in Donedeal is 'vintage'

Classic is not a subjective term, it is a definitive term.
It seems to me that (in Ireland at least) and in terms of motoring, that 'regular' cars pre 2008 are of questionable value simply because of road tax. A very expensive (when new) BMW for example, might actually be only worth a few hundred euro in real terms, simply because of a hefty €1800 a year road tax, so someone selling one, knowing it's going to get little reaction in the 'cars for sale section' tends to 'up the status' a bit and stick it in the 'vintage' section, quote how 'rare' it is, maybe hint that if put in storage it will be 'collectable' in the future, and try to garner interest that way.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about...
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lexus-gs300-concourse-2500/21124241

elperello

swarlb wrote: »

Except the title of the section in Donedeal is 'vintage'

Classic is not a subjective term, it is a definitive term.
It seems to me that (in Ireland at least) and in terms of motoring, that 'regular' cars pre 2008 are of questionable value simply because of road tax. A very expensive (when new) BMW for example, might actually be only worth a few hundred euro in real terms, simply because of a hefty €1800 a year road tax, so someone selling one, knowing it's going to get little reaction in the 'cars for sale section' tends to 'up the status' a bit and stick it in the 'vintage' section, quote how 'rare' it is, maybe hint that if put in storage it will be 'collectable' in the future, and try to garner interest that way.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about...
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lexus-gs300-concourse-2500/21124241

In fairness to the advertiser of that Lexus he does not describe it as Vintage.
It is just a nice clean car that he is willing to swap for a Vintage. Where else would you suggest he put such a proposition?

I agree with your point re. tax. Indeed that is what will probably seal the fate of the Lexus.

swarlb

elperello wrote: »

In fairness to the advertiser of that Lexus he does not describe it as Vintage.
It is just a nice clean car that he is willing to swap for a Vintage. Where else would you suggest he put such a proposition?

I agree with your point re. tax. Indeed that is what will probably seal the fate of the Lexus.

Well... firstly, if I was looking to buy a vintage car... then I'd look in the vintage car section.
If was selling a vintage car, I'd put it in the vintage car section.
If I was selling a 2005 Lexus I'd put it in the 'cars for sale' section, and indicate the option of a swap.
If I was looking to buy a 2005 Lexus... I wouldn't look in the vintage car section.
Maybe that's just me....

https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/2008-bmw-m3-manual-coupe-e92/20655301
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mercedes-s-class-3-0diesel-2006/19407989

But whatever the case... it's looking like your average car park is now full of 'classics'...

What defines a 'non classic' ?

elperello

swarlb wrote: »

Well... firstly, if I was looking to buy a vintage car... then I'd look in the vintage car section.
If was selling a vintage car, I'd put it in the vintage car section.
If I was selling a 2005 Lexus I'd put it in the 'cars for sale' section, and indicate the option of a swap.
If I was looking to buy a 2005 Lexus... I wouldn't look in the vintage car section.
Maybe that's just me....

https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/2008-bmw-m3-manual-coupe-e92/20655301
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mercedes-s-class-3-0diesel-2006/19407989

But whatever the case... it's looking like your average car park is now full of 'classics'...

What defines a 'non classic' ?

Agreed, the BMW guy is in the wrong "car park".
The Mercedes advertiser is looking to swop for a classic.

It seems that the Donedeal Vintage section is a kind of hang out for people interested in classics. That's the best place to advertise your classic or look to swop your modern car for a classic.

Chris_Heilong

It is not just about being old as long as the car had something which made it different from just an A to B drive and that had character is what I consider a Classic, I dont need other people to define a classic because it is how you feel personally about a particular car and if you can find someone who agrees with your opinion then even better.

_Brian

There’s a lot of folk with ran out 300k miles old bangers that nobody really wants selling them as “vintage”, you see early ‘00’s motors on dd and it’s just desperation.

Dades

Many of the younger cars showing up in the vintage section are undoubtably showing up there because the owners believe this is the best way to reach prospective buyers of their cars.

That doesn't mean people actually consider these cars vintage, or classic.

If there's an issue here, it's people diluting the vintage section with young cars to reach a certain demographic, rather than a concerted push to redefine what is vintage or classic. Maybe I'm being pedantic, but there is a difference.