Planning required?

drdidlittle

Thinking of changing the location of the side door of newly purchased house. Basically converting double side door to a window and changing two small windows to double door to give more kitchen space. Its on gable wall which is not road facing. Will planning be needed?

woohoo!!!

Could be but only way to find out is to summit a section 5 application to the Council. They've 4 weeks to give you an official reply. Check out your Council's website for more details.

Gumbo

Post a pic of the elevation

doug82

drdidlittle wrote: »

Thinking of changing the location of the side door of newly purchased house. Basically converting double side door to a window and changing two small windows to double door to give more kitchen space. Its on gable wall which is not road facing. Will planning be needed?

The test is would the change make your house inconsistent with neighboring houses, when viewed from the public domain. If it can’t be seen then planning would not be required.

woohoo!!!

doug82 wrote: »

The test is would the change make your house inconsistent with neighboring houses, when viewed from the public domain. If it can’t be seen then planning would not be required.

Almost but not quite, the actual test per Section 4(1)(h) of the planning act is:

"development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alterations of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures".

doug82

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Almost but not quite, the actual test per Section 4(1)(h) of the planning act is:

"development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alterations of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures".

Yes, I summarised what is relevant from 4(1)(h). Quoting full legal text isn’t always helpful to those unfamiliar with its interpretation

woohoo!!!

doug82 wrote: »

Yes, I summarised what is relevant from 4(1)(h). Quoting full legal text isn’t always helpful to those unfamiliar with its interpretation

You summed it up incorrectly, your interpretation of if it 'cannot be seen' doesn't stack up.

doug82

woohoo!!! wrote: »

You summed it up incorrectly, your interpretation of if it 'cannot be seen' doesn't stack up.

Whether an alteration can be seen from the public domain goes to the heart of this exemption and how it has been interpreted by Planning Authorities and Bord Pleanala for decades. If it can't be seen, it can't be deemed inconsistent with neighbouring structures.

woohoo!!!

doug82 wrote: »

Whether an alteration can be seen from the public domain goes to the heart of this exemption and how it has been interpreted by Planning Authorities and Bord Pleanala for decades. If it can't be seen, it can't be deemed inconsistent with neighbouring structures.

Yes and it's a very narrow interpretation that does not cover in full what the legal text means, for example re-roofing. I dealt with one last week for replacing an asbestos roof with cladding, and it passed. Now is a roof visible or is it not?

I'm not interested in proving you wrong for the sake of it, I'm just saying that the 'not visible' line covers lots of things re this, but does not cover everything. The OP's query could be pretty visible and still fall under the exemption, which is meant to cover relatively minor works without the need for planning permission.

doug82

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Yes and it's a very narrow interpretation that does not cover in full what the legal text means, for example re-roofing. I dealt with one last week for replacing an asbestos roof with cladding, and it passed. Now is a roof visible or is it not?

I'm not interested in proving you wrong for the sake of it, I'm just saying that the 'not visible' line covers lots of things re this, but does not cover everything. The OP's query could be pretty visible and still fall under the exemption, which is meant to cover relatively minor works without the need for planning permission.

My response was tailored to the particular query about alterations to windows and doors on a side elevation, having reviewed many ABP referrals on similar topics. Obviously there are cases where it is not as straightforward. And I agree, even if it is visible it could still be considered exempt.

rayjdav

woohoo!!! wrote: »

I'm just saying that the 'not visible' line covers lots of things re this, but does not cover everything. The OP's query could be pretty visible and still fall under the exemption, which is meant to cover relatively minor works without the need for planning permission.

I know going off topic here but this is where a lot of people fall down imho, "which is meant to" or "not what was meant by the act/reg". The text of an SI is printed and it is up to the individual to put a case forward to show that their situation complies, in their opinion, with the text as written. Interpretation is left open for you to show how it does, by wording your argument in a particular manner.

I have used and got approval for things under 4(1)(h) that in all normal situations should not have been approved and should have been told to get planning.

woohoo!!!

rayjdav wrote: »

I know going off topic here but this is where a lot of people fall down imho, "which is meant to" or "not what was meant by the act/reg". The text of an SI is printed and it is up to the individual to put a case forward to show that their situation complies, in their opinion, with the text as written. Interpretation is left open for you to show how it does, by wording your argument in a particular manner.

I have used and got approval for things under 4(1)(h) that in all normal situations should not have been approved and should have been told to get planning.

Yes, that's a fair point. It's an elastic definition. In the example I used, the shed was pretty big, industrial size. No problem with it, and I'd say even if there was gonna be a load of roof lights in it, probably fine also.

drdidlittle

OP here. Country house and side of house where change is to be made is not visible from road or by neighbours. Hard to say if it is consistent with others