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LED Lights are coming!! Stop. Wait. (unless you're contracted & getting a fat cheque)

  • 21-02-2019 3:06am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭ Suckit


    They are putting them everywhere! But not paying any attention at all to the area that they are installing them in.

    Whoever is installing them must be milking the councils and hoping for a 2nd pay cheque. If they're not, and they honestly think they are installing the correct lights, then they are the wrong people for the job.
    LED lights are good, but to be placed in certain areas, they need to have as little blue light as possible.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/29/health/streetlights-improve-health/index.html
    https://www.superbrightleds.com/blog/warm-white-led-streetlights-theyre-better-environment/4378/

    Those articles are just two examples that I could find online. But they should illuminate my point.
    The lights that they are putting in are wrong on a lot of levels. Will need to be removed, and somebody will be paid to replace them all over again.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,880 ✭✭✭✭ The Hill Billy


    Moved from Dublin County North as thread is more of a general infrastructure issue than a region-specific matter.

    tHB


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Casual replacements for failed sodium / CFL lamps make up the majority of the bodged LED installs. In this case it's the council scrimping on their contract with the maintenance firm which is generally Airtricity.

    A second issue with this is that the old pole spacing is often too wide for the limited cut off on new LED units, leaving dark gaps between each pole


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,472 EdgeCase


    The excessively blue light they give off is horrible. Our street had them replaced with LEDs and they're way too bright, the light keeps me awake at night if I don't pull blackout blinds (never an issue previously) and there are birds singing at 3am.

    I absolutely hate the bloody things.

    Also there are dark shadows everywhere. If you're driving along at night you see pedestrians appear from nowhere because they're between two sharp beams. If you're walking, you can't adequately see trip hazards sometimes as the dark areas are huge.

    I've also noticed a lot of the retrofitted ones seem to mostly light the lamppost itself. You get a lovely harsh view of awful looking ESB infrastructure. You know the way ESB does those hideous junctions, they're now picked out like as if someone used architectural lighting.

    I noticed in UCC carparks there are yellow filters fitted over the LED lamps and that makes a huge difference to them at night. It's not as eye burning.

    I brought it up with local authority and got absolutely nowhere. Totally dismissive attitude.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭ BowWow


    Suckit wrote: »
    Those articles are just two examples that I could find online. But they should illuminate my point.

    I see what you did there..:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭ highdef


    The streetlamps are being slowly replaced in my village. I think they are fantastic. Far less light pollution to be seen, excellent colour rendition with daylight white colour so a red car looks red and a blue car looks blue. With the old sodium lights, both cars looked black.
    Can anyone give examples of the blue light that some people are talking about? I have only seen pretty much pure white light from LED streetlamps.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭ bkrangle


    There's a few installed on my road.

    Birds don't know what to make of them, up all night singing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,472 EdgeCase


    Blue light refers to the colour temperature of the white light. If it's too blue it looks like daylight and causes all sorts of problems for animals and humans eyes and sleep patterns.

    The light temperature should be much warmer / yellower at night.

    You're not meant to be looking at day light at night. That's why phones and computers increasingly have blue light filters "night shift mode" etc etc that shifts the colour temperature way over towards red.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,567 ✭✭✭✭ Spook_ie


    bkrangle wrote: »
    There's a few installed on my road.

    Birds don't know what to make of them, up all night singing

    To be fair if you are a night worker you'll have seen and heard birds up n about under sodium lighting as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,472 EdgeCase


    Not to the same extent - the white lights are definitely having a much bigger impact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭ Inviere


    Some of them are truly terrible replacements in terms of light quality:

    Really harsh/glaring to look at
    Much worse light coverage (immediate overly bright area turning into dark shadow in a very short distance)
    The general area not being as lit as it used to be, despite the lights now being brighter (houses/side entrances more vulnerable)
    Far far too white/blue, it's not how light is meant to be at night
    Far worse visibility when driving, as said, things appear out of nowhere now.

    I detest them, they're a really terrible replacement for sodium lamps.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭ Suckit


    They are ugly and intrusive, but more perturbing is that long before they had started installing them here, the harmful effects had already been documented pretty much everywhere along with examples of bad installations.

    Not just in scientific journals etc. - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5835023/Modern-LEDs-cities-affecting-animals-midday-sun.html

    It can't be too difficult to stop them going in until they have the correct LED's or lighting for an area.
    They are really really ugly. The black spots (as mentioned) are ridiculous (and dangerous) too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,472 EdgeCase


    It'll be expensive if they have to retrospectively replace them. Although, I think you can get filters that are slipped onto most of those LED lamp heads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭ charlietheminxx


    They've put these in the estate behind where I live and they're awful. Our bedroom doesn't get properly dark anymore and the birds are going mad over it. We looked into having a custom blackout blind made for the velux window but it was pretty expensive and we would need permission from our landlord... glad we are moving soon now. There are some main roads where they have made a good difference but they are clearly not suitable for everywhere and I can't understand why they are throwing them up everywhere (particularly in residential estates).


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Likely there were similar complaints when the gas lights were done away with.

    It just takes a few days to get used to them.

    After a while you won't even notice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭ Suckit


    DaCor wrote: »
    Likely there were similar complaints when the gas lights were done away with.

    It just takes a few days to get used to them.

    After a while you won't even notice.


    Definitely not the case in these instances. They've been up over 6 months in a relatives estate and neither they or their neighbours like them at all and are already looking into having them changed. Willing to keep LED, just not the ones that they have installed.
    So getting used to them is not the real issue, they need to be the correct lights.

    The warmer ones would be more palatable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭ Inviere


    DaCor wrote: »
    Likely there were similar complaints when the gas lights were done away with.

    It just takes a few days to get used to them.

    After a while you won't even notice.

    That must be it, we're just 'not used to them' folks. Be grand.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    DaCor wrote: »
    Likely there were similar complaints when the gas lights were done away with.

    It just takes a few days to get used to them.

    After a while you won't even notice.

    Dark areas between poles that weren't dark before aren't something you get used to


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    L1011 wrote: »
    Dark areas between poles that weren't dark before aren't something you get used to

    They are not dark areas, they are just not fully lit up. It still perfectly clear and visible


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭ Inviere


    DaCor wrote: »
    they are just not fully lit up

    Where they once were. So not as good or proficient as it was before they were installed then.
    It still perfectly clear and visible

    Again I'd have to disagree. I'd have a hard time describing most of the areas I've seen changed to LED's as 'perfectly clear and visible'. They're anything but.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    DaCor wrote: »
    They are not dark areas, they are just not fully lit up. It still perfectly clear and visible

    Not on the ones I'm talking about


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ BazzFan123


    One has been installed in the park I live in (thankfully not near my house), they look terrible. They're also really bright so you can't directly look at them. If you're crossing the road and the light itself is directly out of view, it looks like a car is approaching. I think they're good on main roads where houses aren't near as they might help keep drivers awake, but there is no need for them at all in residential areas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    A rather simple illustration of one of the main benefits of the changeover to LED from sodium street lighting



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭ Suckit


    DaCor wrote: »
    A rather simple illustration of one of the main benefits of the changeover to LED from sodium street lighting
    Youtube link
    That is a very simple illustration.
    I would have thought that the main benefit was cost. Anything after that would be environmental?

    One of the main benefits? Some colour definition?
    I'm sorry, but if that is one of the main benefits then it is very negligible.
    The point is missed entirely by using that video.
    It is not LED that is the issue. As is mentioned at the start of that "very basic" video, it is only "one of the many types of LED".
    The main issue I have about the lights that are being installed, is that they are the wrong ones.
    There are LEDs that are less harmful, create a warmer light, and don't have noticeable dark patches between the existing poles.
    Many people are already mentioning that the dark patches in estates are easier for crime to be committed (for example, areas between houses are darker and harder to see).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭ Inviere


    DaCor wrote: »
    A rather simple illustration of one of the main benefits of the changeover to LED from sodium street lighting


    I'm not seeing a single benefit. The room on the left might have lost 'slight' colour definition, but is way more evenly lit, very minimal shadows, is softly lit, light distribution is even, and overall visibility is better than the room to the right. On the right, the light distribution is terrible (look at the wall over the light, it's one big shadow), there are way more shadows, the dummy is nowhere near as visible, the light itself is harsher and less suited to night time viewing. In every way that matters, the room on the left is better lit for night time usage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭ highdef


    Inviere wrote: »
    I'm not seeing a single benefit. The room on the left might have lost 'slight' colour definition, but is way more evenly lit, very minimal shadows, is softly lit, light distribution is even, and overall visibility is better than the room to the right. On the right, the light distribution is terrible (look at the wall over the light, it's one big shadow), there are way more shadows, the dummy is nowhere near as visible, the light itself is harsher and less suited to night time viewing. In every way that matters, the room on the left is better lit for night time usage.

    I guess LED is a subjective thing as I completely disagree. In my opinion the room on the right is better lit for night time usage.


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