Running analysis

Bravestaar

Has anyone had this done professionally? My running technique is very poor. I heel strike when I am running. I know everything is wrong but my times are decent.

Can anyone recommend a coach or place where I can go to try and fix my running technique? Anyone who has had it done?

Murph_D

Heel striking isnt a bad thing. Many professional runners do it. There’s little or no evidence that it causes injury or affects performance. Good form helps running economy though. I’d be interested in the answer to your question myself. You can do chi running sessions -expensive though, and I’m not sure the people I know who have done it got anything much out of it long term. Emmet Dunleavy of perfectpacing.com gives form pointers as part of his LT testing and I’m sure it’s an even bigger part of his coaching service, as with other coaches. I’d be doing a lot of asking around though. There are some dodgy ‘coaches’ out there.

MY BAD

Where are you based OP?

MY BAD

Murph_D wrote: »

Heel striking isnt a bad thing. Many professional runners do it. There’s little or no evidence that it causes injury or affects performance.

I'd say heel striking isn't anything to be overly concerned about depending on where your centre is but over striding while heel striking could cause problems? Its is quite common with recreational runners. Possibly having your glutes not firing as it's one of the strongest muscles you have at your disposal is very important or you'll end up over using your hamstrings but is that more about efficiency rather then injury prevention?

Bravestaar

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

Where are you based OP?

Dublin. Sorry I should have mentioned that.

Bravestaar

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

I'd say heel striking isn't anything to be overly concerned about depending on where your centre is but over striding while heel striking could cause problems? Its is quite common with recreational runners. Possibly having your glutes not firing as it's one of the strongest muscles you have at your disposal is very important or you'll end up over using your hamstrings but is that more about efficiency rather then injury prevention?

I do have a slight problem with my glutes. I can only really tense one of them properly. It's as if the other one doesn't work?!

I want to run more efficiently and hopefully prevent or alleviate injuries that i sustain regularly including heel pain and sciatic pain

Bravestaar

I was thinking of trying jktherapy which appears to be a biomechanical screening and running analysis and/or Peak Physio which is a running analysis thing also.

There's a chi running class every month or so so I might try that.

I haven't really got a clue so I'm hoping someone on here has had experience with changing their running technique and can give advice as to where to go and how long it took etc.

Of all the races I've done I've seen hundreds of photos of myself running and in not one of them do I ever have both feet off the ground. Sometimes I have both feet on the ground and it looks like I am walking. I'm not fast but I'm not than slow either. I know by improving my technique I could be a lot more efficient.

I don't know if it would be possible to do after nearly 40 years of running the same way.

Murph_D

Bravestaar wrote: »

I do have a slight problem with my glutes. I can only really tense one of them properly. It's as if the other one doesn't work?!

I want to run more efficiently and hopefully prevent or alleviate injuries that i sustain regularly including heel pain and sciatic pain

Let me guess - you’re right handed and can only tense the left glute? (Or the other way around)

Doesn’t sound that unusual. (Have to say I’m sceptical about the whole ‘glute firing’ question. What does it actually mean? What does it do? There’s lots of info on the Internet, but how how relevant is it to the average recreational runner?)

Wanting to run efficiently is good though. Are you sure your sciatica is running related? Re heel pain, do you have good shoes?

Bravestaar

Murph_D wrote: »

Let me guess - you’re right handed and can only tense the left glute? (Or the other way around)

Doesn’t sound that unusual. (Have to say I’m sceptical about the whole ‘glute firing’ question. What does it actually mean? What does it do? There’s lots of info on the Internet, but how how relevant is it to the average recreational runner?)

Wanting to run efficiently is good though. Are you sure your sciatica is running related? Re heel pain, do you have good shoes?

I don't know if the sciatica is running related. It comes and goes.

The heel problem definitely is. I got fitted in Amphibian King for runners as I kept getting blisters. I land on the heel so I have runners for that. I use Brooks Adrenaline which are a good make.

I'm right handed and only my right glute works properly.
If I concentrate really hard I can slightly tense my left glute but only for a second.

yosser hughes

Bravestaar wrote: »

I don't know if the sciatica is running related. It comes and goes.

The heel problem definitely is. I got fitted in Amphibian King for runners as I kept getting blisters. I land on the heel so I have runners for that. I use Brooks Adrenaline which are a good make.

I'm right handed and only my right glute works properly.
If I concentrate really hard I can slightly tense my left glute but only for a second.

I find this guy quite good. He has loads of videos on running form and injury prevention.

Sacksian

I missed a LOT of training between 2014 and 2017, including the entire summers of 2015-2017, due to achilles strains, as well as what I thought were hamstring strains but turned out to be sciatica.

The achilles strains were largely due to overworked calves and I suspect the sciatica was partly due to very tight hamstrings and quads, which caused/or were caused by a ridiculously tight lower back. I never had any direct back pain.

Everything was more than likely related.

The achilles issues appear to have been alleviated by concentrating on my glutes - not glute strength, but coordination - ensuring that the muscles are engaged appropriately and in the manner they're designed to be, rather than, for example, the calves taking up more load than they're supposed to. This might be relevant to what you're describing.

I did lots of glute activation stuff - very, very fundamental movements, stuff like hip hikes. But also just concentrating on trying to clench/tense each side individually. This takes 10-15 minutes every day but you'll see results very quickly.

For the sciatica, foam rolling my quads (but not my hamstrings) seemed to work for them and, for the hamstrings/lower back, a sort of yoga-like forward bend, where you start off very conservatively and go deeper as you do a deep inhalation. When I do the forward bend, I do it very slowly and gradually, and I feel like I'm stretching/loosening out my lower back, rather than the hamstrings. This appears to do the job. Too much track work was also a trigger for my sciatica.

The most fundamental part for me in overcoming these injuries and niggles (*touch wood*) was getting an understanding of how it all worked in terms of running, how it affected my running and practically what to do about it.

I read loads of stuff online and watched loads of video and, honestly, nothing stuck. It was all very fragmented and I felt like I was trying 00s of different things every other week.

At some point, I was recommended the book "Anatomy for Runners" by Jay Dicharry and I have to say it was revelatory for me.

It is a very, very practical and visual guide to fixing some of the issues you describe - loads of drills, exercises and lots of (accessible) background on the mechanics of running. (Also lots about hip extension, which will help with your heel striking). Get it out of the library if you don't want to commit to buying it, but I found it very useful.

I don't think I'll ever be very far away from an injury but it does feel better to have a solid framework that I can refer back to whenever I feel something.

Best of luck with figuring it out, anyway - it was a very frustrating few years for me with all the various niggles.

Alorra

Deadly have not got a new running book in a while

thanks

Bravestaar

Sacksian wrote: »

At some point, I was recommended the book "Anatomy for Runners" by Jay Dicharry and I have to say it was revelatory for me.

It is a very, very practical and visual guide to fixing some of the issues you describe - loads of drills, exercises and lots of (accessible) background on the mechanics of running. (Also lots about hip extension, which will help with your heel striking). Get it out of the library if you don't want to commit to buying it, but I found it very useful.

.

After reading this I went straight onto eBay and bought it. Thanks!

Wottle

Sacksian wrote: »

At some point, I was recommended the book "Anatomy for Runners" by Jay Dicharry and I have to say it was revelatory for me.

Thanks for the suggestion, "Running rewired" by the same author arrived yesterday and I can't put it down.

I really enjoyed "The art of running" by Julian Goater but "Running rewired" appears to be a level above.

sideswipe

Sacksian wrote: »

I missed a LOT of training between 2014 and 2017, including the entire summers of 2015-2017, due to achilles strains, as well as what I thought were hamstring strains but turned out to be sciatica.

The achilles strains were largely due to overworked calves and I suspect the sciatica was partly due to very tight hamstrings and quads, which caused/or were caused by a ridiculously tight lower back. I never had any direct back pain.

Everything was more than likely related.

The achilles issues appear to have been alleviated by concentrating on my glutes - not glute strength, but coordination - ensuring that the muscles are engaged appropriately and in the manner they're designed to be, rather than, for example, the calves taking up more load than they're supposed to. This might be relevant to what you're describing.

I did lots of glute activation stuff - very, very fundamental movements, stuff like hip hikes. But also just concentrating on trying to clench/tense each side individually. This takes 10-15 minutes every day but you'll see results very quickly.

For the sciatica, foam rolling my quads (but not my hamstrings) seemed to work for them and, for the hamstrings/lower back, a sort of yoga-like forward bend, where you start off very conservatively and go deeper as you do a deep inhalation. When I do the forward bend, I do it very slowly and gradually, and I feel like I'm stretching/loosening out my lower back, rather than the hamstrings. This appears to do the job. Too much track work was also a trigger for my sciatica.

The most fundamental part for me in overcoming these injuries and niggles (*touch wood*) was getting an understanding of how it all worked in terms of running, how it affected my running and practically what to do about it.

I read loads of stuff online and watched loads of video and, honestly, nothing stuck. It was all very fragmented and I felt like I was trying 00s of different things every other week.

At some point, I was recommended the book "Anatomy for Runners" by Jay Dicharry and I have to say it was revelatory for me.

It is a very, very practical and visual guide to fixing some of the issues you describe - loads of drills, exercises and lots of (accessible) background on the mechanics of running. (Also lots about hip extension, which will help with your heel striking). Get it out of the library if you don't want to commit to buying it, but I found it very useful.

I don't think I'll ever be very far away from an injury but it does feel better to have a solid framework that I can refer back to whenever I feel something.

Best of luck with figuring it out, anyway - it was a very frustrating few years for me with all the various niggles.

Thanks for posting that, I'm in a similar position to the one you were in. Trying stuff to sort it out but still not knowing how and why I'm having issues. I think Mr Dicharry is going to own you some commission this week:pac:

Sacksian

I take no responsibility!!

One aspect that I particularly like is that a lot of the exercises are presented as diagnostics - i.e. if you can't do them properly (knees buckling inwards, losing balance, etc), there's some diagnosis as to why you're failing in a particularly way and what you can work on to correct that.

I found this useful in getting my head around the idea that if I can't do the most basic exercise, there's no point in attempting more complex stuff.

I'm not very disciplined but I am patient. I suspect you'll get the most out of it if you're disciplined and patient and unlikely to get much if you're neither.

The single exercise I go back to most often is the "Chair of Death" - enjoy!

Ceepo

Bravestaar wrote: »

Has anyone had this done professionally? My running technique is very poor. I heel strike when I am running. I know everything is wrong but my times are decent.

Can anyone recommend a coach or place where I can go to try and fix my running technique? Anyone who has had it done?

The foot strike is only one part of gait cycle, and a lot of other factors can contribute to where and how you land, be that on your heal, mid foot or toe, also whether you overpronate or neutral strike.
The gait cycle is made up of movement through the whole body from hip flexion, knee extension, foot strike, hip extension, knee flexion, thoracic rotation arm swing just to name some of the movement patterns that have to be synced all in unison to create good efficient movement. So it is easy to see how a break down can happen.
Most of the time when you get gait analysis done especially in specialized running stores they look at what way you land and advise on shoes for that style, however there's no evidence that the advent of different running shoes play apart in injury prevention. What even is overpronation? as there is no defined amount we pronate (and we all do to some extend) then how do we define that we over do it.

As your glutes play a huge role in the gait cycle it is important that the are functional, and yes they can be non functional, or functional in external rotation and not hip extension. Also strong glutes DOES not mean that there any more functional that week ones.
If you do a lot of hip extension exercises (hip thrust) you will build stronger glutes but it doesn't transfer into the gait cycle.

The Glute needs to work with the conterlateral lats (right lat to left glute ) to preform trunk rotation while in hip extension, then and only then are you on the path to be more efficient.

I also think that getting que'd into a better running technique is not a great idea, you need to 1st release muscle dysfunction then activate WHERE is needed and not in a generic fashion, but where is needed for YOU.
If you dont change the dysfunction then you will revert back to your default style

Im not sure about any of the guys you mentioned regarding gait analysis, as I have no direct experience or heard anything about them.

I do however know a few guys who look at the gait cycle as I described above that are based in the Dublin area, I'd be happy to pass on their details if you want them, just send me a pm..

nevan

Bravestaar wrote: »

Has anyone had this done professionally? My running technique is very poor. I heel strike when I am running. I know everything is wrong but my times are decent.

Can anyone recommend a coach or place where I can go to try and fix my running technique? Anyone who has had it done?

I had a gait analysis done for free at the marathon expo last year. They attached ping pong balls to my legs and got me to run on a treadmill while cameras tracked my movement. They sent me a PDF with stats about my gait.

Here’s their website:

https://www.run360.ie

It costs €125 and takes 45 minutes. Go prepared with questions you’d like answered and a notebook. It’s hard to interpret the results yourself.

Here’s a PDF link to a sample analysis:

www.run3d.co.uk/_literature_139812/Run3D_Sample_Report

They were giving out a code for €25 off, expo2018, but it might have expired by now.

I'd also recommend Running Rewired and Anatomy for Runners by Jay Dicharry. Both are excellent and packed with exercises. Running Rewired hass less text and more pictures so if you only get one, get Anatomy for Runners.

Ceepo

nevan wrote: »

I had a gait analysis done for free at the marathon expo last year. They attached ping pong balls to my legs and got me to run on a treadmill while cameras tracked my movement. They sent me a PDF with stats about my gait.

Here’s their website:

https://www.run360.ie

It costs €125 and takes 45 minutes. Go prepared with questions you’d like answered and a notebook. It’s hard to interpret the results yourself.

Here’s a PDF link to a sample analysis:

www.run3d.co.uk/_literature_139812/Run3D_Sample_Report

They were giving out a code for €25 off, expo2018, but it might have expired by now.

I'd also recommend Running Rewired and Anatomy for Runners by Jay Dicharry. Both are excellent and packed with exercises. Running Rewired hass less text and more pictures so if you only get one, get Anatomy for Runners.

Looks interesting.
Do they also measure the amount you rotate the rib cage both left and right,
the amount of lateral shift or flexion of the rib cage, or if there is and compression of the rib cage on foot strike, shoulder flexion and extension.?

I looked at the sample analysis but it only showed measurements from the hip down.
Its doesn't mention anything about it on their website

Edit... the person in sample also wore runners for the assessment. This would have an influence on their gait...

nevan

Ceepo wrote: »

Looks interesting.
Do they also measure the amount you rotate the rib cage both left and right,
the amount of lateral shift or flexion of the rib cage, or if there is and compression of the rib cage on foot strike, shoulder flexion and extension.?

I looked at the sample analysis but it only showed measurements from the hip down.
Its doesn't mention anything about it on their website

Edit... the person in sample also wore runners for the assessment. This would have an influence on their gait...

It was only hips and legs when I did it. I don't think you can do it barefoot or wear your own runners as there's a special velcro attachment for the ping pong balls to stick to. They had a pair of neutral Brooks runners to use.

Ceepo

nevan wrote: »

It was only hips and legs when I did it. I don't think you can do it barefoot or wear your own runners as there's a special velcro attachment for the ping pong balls to stick to. They had a pair of neutral Brooks runners to use.

I suppose it's better than nothing in a way, the thing is it only looks at half of what the gait cycle is, all be it in great detail.