Who has right of way coming onto Pearse street from Westland row vs lombard

SlipperyPeople

Did a search for this but couldn't find any prior threads.

I was just wondering if anyone could advise when coming from westland row turning left onto pearce street, occasionally the lights for cars turning right from lombard street to pearce will also be green leading to two streams of traffic arriving at the same time

Who has the right of way here? Should cars coming from westland row stick to the left hand side lane when facing trinity and the cars merging from lombard to the right ?


https://imgur.com/a/fIW9FC6

Effects

Each take a lane I'd have thought. Although coming from Westland Row I usually prefer getting into the right lane once I'm around the bend.

Isambard

it sounds an unlikely scenario but you should give way to traffic from your right if they are in your lane.

patrickbrophy18

Given that this junction is signal controlled, the actual signals themselves will dictate who has right-of-way. Also, from looking at the road in Google Maps Street View, there are no yield signs. In this instance, you absolutely have to stop on red or face penalty points and a fine if caught. Most importantly of all, be mindful of pedestrians who may decide to cross the road.

SlipperyPeople

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Given that this junction is signal controlled, the actual signals themselves will dictate who has right-of-way. Also, from looking at the road in Google Maps Street View, there are no yield signs. In this instance, you absolutely have to stop on red or face penalty points and a fine if caught. Most importantly of all, be mindful of pedestrians who may decide to cross the road.

Sorry bit confused by what you mean "you absolutely have to stop on red or face points etc". when wouldn't you have to stop in such a scenario?

Maybe a bit more clarification on what I've experienced. It seems that alot of the time the lights will go green for cars coming from westland row first and while remaining green the other lights for cars coming from lombard turn green allowing them to join pearce street, and on occasion as the previous poster suggested joined the left lane in front of me forcing me to give way, but as you said there's no yield signs marked from what I can see.

Perhaps just giving way to the right is the best course of action.

patrickbrophy18

If the lights happen to be green for traffic coming from Lombard Street and also Westland Row then, traffic from Lombard Street will have right-of-way because they will be coming from your right.

People who don't know the road layout in this block off by heart could be forgiven for finding this setup confusing.
This holds true especially at night when visibility is very bad.

Cookie_Monster

coming from Lombard you stay in right lane, coming from Westland stay in left. No issue of right of way arises

Ha Long Bay

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

coming from Lombard you stay in right lane, coming from Westland stay in left. No issue of right of way arises

What if its a taxi or bus that wants to move to the bus lane on the left? I would always yield to traffic coming from Lombard street as they have right of way. Its a stupid junction as half the time the lights stay red on Lombard street.

Wishbone Ash

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

...you absolutely have to stop on red or face penalty points and a fine if caught....

Are there other light controlled junctions when you do not have to stop on red? I'm not aware of any.

Hurrache

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

coming from Lombard you stay in right lane

There's no obligation to do that though?

If you're coming from Lombard Street you're on Pearse Street before those joining from Westland Row so coming from Lombard Street you have right of way. In actuality most people would keep right from Lombard Street anyway.

Larbre34

The location is irrelevant. There is no obligation on either approach street to stay in one traffic lane or the other once on Pearse Street. Regardless of the colour of the traffic lights from Westland Row, you yield to the right at the mouth of the junction. You also yield to the right entering the traffic lane and give way for traffic changing lanes.

The issue of coming to a full stop at the mouth of the slip lane does not arise, it is a yield unless the traffic lights are of course red.

coylemj

The rule about giving way to traffic coming from your right is always quoted when this type of scenario is discussed but it does not apply here. That rule applies if you come to a crossroads and all the roads are of equal importance, i.e. there is no Yield or Stop sign, in that case you give way to the guy coming from your right.

Rules of the Road p.122 .....

If you are at a junction where the roads are of equal importance, the traffic on your right has right of way. You must let that traffic pass before you move on.

The scenario the OP has raised is covered by a different rule......

Rules of the Road p.122 .....

If you plan to turn right at a junction and a vehicle from the opposite direction wants to turn into the same road, the vehicle that is turning left has right of way. If yours is the vehicle turning right, you must wait for the other vehicle to turn first.


Which means that, everything else being equal, the car coming out of Westland Row into Pearse St. has the right of way because he is turning left.

tricky D

It isn't a junction of equal importance, as from Westland Row it is a merging situation from a merging lane. Traffic from Lombard is established on Pearse St already when the Westland Row traffic merges so Westland must yield. While there is no yield sign the road markings indicate a relatively minor joining a major road so yield as required. Lanes and lights don't change that.

Isambard

it seems to me the traffic lights don't apply to this part of the junction, in which case it's the same as any other T junction or like joining a roundabout, you yield to the traffic approaching from your right.

I believe the car approaching from the right has already turned right on to the straight road and thus the right turn can be ignored.

Effects

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Given that this junction is signal controlled, the actual signals themselves will dictate who has right-of-way.

They don't. As both sets of lights asked about can be green at the same time. So traffic will be coming from both directions at the same time.

Isambard

yes the part of the junction being discussed seems more like a slip road

Hurrache

coylemj wrote: »

The rule about giving way to traffic coming from your right is always quoted when this type of scenario is discussed but it does not apply here. That rule applies if you come to a crossroads and all the roads are of equal importance, i.e. there is no Yield or Stop sign, in that case you give way to the guy coming from your right.

Rules of the Road p.122 .....

If you are at a junction where the roads are of equal importance, the traffic on your right has right of way. You must let that traffic pass before you move on.

The scenario the OP has raised is covered by a different rule......

Rules of the Road p.122 .....

If you plan to turn right at a junction and a vehicle from the opposite direction wants to turn into the same road, the vehicle that is turning left has right of way. If yours is the vehicle turning right, you must wait for the other vehicle to turn first.


Which means that, everything else being equal, the car coming out of Westland Row into Pearse St. has the right of way because he is turning left.

As someone pointed out, this is not the case, it's not that type of junction. People coming from Westland Row are seeking to join the road, Pearse Street, that the people from Lombard Street are already on. The normal rules of seeing to join a road apply, i.e. give way to traffic already on that road coming from your right.

Cookie_Monster

Hurrache wrote: »

There's no obligation to do that though?

Is there really not? I've been living in a country with decent road laws for too long. How is that not a rule?

Lumen

Consider the case of a street sweeper or cyclist who passes slowly through an amber but is still passing through the junction when the lights go green for other traffic.

That traffic has to yield despite having a green. A green light does not give you absolute right to proceed. It gives you right to proceed if clear and safe to do so.

Del.Monte

Any chance that a Mod could correct the spelling of Pearse in the thread title - every time that I see it I hear nails on a blackboard?

boombang

I pass this junction twice a day on foot and I often see difficulties with it.

When I drive through it from Lombard Street I typically stay in the right lane initially and then move over to the left as I need to. This usually works fine, except when Westland row traffic attempts to sweep right around to the lane on the far right when joining the road.

thunderdog

A somewhat similar scenario a few 100 meters away, where merrion square west and merrion street lower have left and right hand turns respectively onto Clare St. However in this case both sets of lights go green at the same time where Clare St only has 1 car lane and 1 bus lane.

For those who have right of way turning left from merrion square west onto Clare St, if they are not familiar with the junction, they will be surprised to see cars edging forward from merrion street lower in an effort to join Clare St. Often a bit of horn honking ensues as I suspect some drivers are not aware that both sets of lights turn green at the same time.

DesperateDan

Del.Monte wrote: »

Any chance that a Mod could correct the spelling of Pearse in the thread title - every time that I see it I hear nails on a blackboard?

*Peers

thunderdog

DesperateDan wrote: »

*Peers

Nails on a blackboard can be quite Piercing alright. Pierce St

ongarboy

boombang wrote: »

I pass this junction twice a day on foot and I often see difficulties with it.

When I drive through it from Lombard Street I typically stay in the right lane initially and then move over to the left as I need to. This usually works fine, except when Westland row traffic attempts to sweep right around to the lane on the far right when joining the road.

Agreed. I mainly am in this area as a pedestrian during lunchtime but I also see it as a recipe for collisions and I've often wondered what the OP questioned as well. Both directions have green arrows (left from W Row and Right from Lombard) and when they are green simultaneously, I'd suspect many/most motorists would assume they have exclusivity for entering any of the lanes on Pearse Street. The fact that the correct protocol is known by some here and is no doubt present in every Rules of the Road book does not matter if the majority of motorists will instinctively perceive something different. Flashing amber lights should be present for those exiting Westland Row unless the lights are red for traffic coming from Lombard St in my opinion.

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

Any chance that a Mod could correct the spelling of Pearse in the thread title - every time that I see it I hear nails on a blackboard?

Thank you!!

Marcusm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

coming from Lombard you stay in right lane, coming from Westland stay in left. No issue of right of way arises

Coming from Lombard St, you have already joined Pearse St before the Westland Row slip junction. Accordingly, a right of way issue does arise and the right of way is in favour of those already on the pertinent road.

magentis

john4321 wrote: »

What if its a taxi or bus that wants to move to the bus lane on the left? I would always yield to traffic coming from Lombard street as they have right of way. Its a stupid junction as half the time the lights stay red on Lombard street.

The bus lane continuous white line solves that issue.