Selling a car on UK plates

vintagevet

Hi All,
long story short, i purchased a non running uk registered car on Ebay a number of years ago ( about 5 years ago) , and got it collected and deliver by a haulage company.
It was bought solely for parts, to repair my own irish registered car, but when it arrived in the yard, i realized it was far too good to break, so i sourced the the parts i needed elsewhere over the course of a few years, whenever i found them available.
Over the course of time the vehicle has become collectable and is almost vintage now , its 29 years old now. It was genuinely never my intention when purchased to put this vehicle on the road, so i never declared it as imported and no VRT was ever paid. Its now running as i have done quite a bit of work to the engine recently.
What are my options for registering the car now in this country?
What are my options if i decided to sell the car now in this country?
any advice would be appreciated.Thanks

unkel

Have you got the UK paperwork (V5C) with it?

vintagevet

Yes I have the V5 which is still in the previous UK owner's name and address.
The seller detached the portion of the V5 relating to permanent export, and I presume sent this to the DVLA at the time of sale.

Mitchomagic

Check the reg on the uk gov site to see if there is an export marker on it, or ring the DVLA

vintagevet

I just checked on the DVLA website, the vehicle has an export marker shown alright.

Car99

Mitchomagic wrote: »

Check the reg on the uk gov site to see if there is an export marker on it, or ring the DVLA

If there is an export marker but e car hasn't been registered since being exported would the DVLA send out a V5 to a UK address?

Isambard

why would they? He has the V5C.

You potentially could be hit for penalties on the VRT going back years, unless you have documentation showing you just bought it.

Car99

Isambard wrote: »

why would they? He has the V5C.

You potentially could be hit for penalties on the VRT going back years, unless you have documentation showing you just bought it.

If he had the full new v5 he could sell it for export again with a very recent date on it.

vintagevet

I have family in the UK, could I send the V5C back to the DVLA, for a change of ownership with the “new keeper” being my family member, which would reset the clock for me??????
Or is the DVLA likely to start asking questions regarding the previous permanent export???? And keep the V5C????

Isambard

you would have to have a UK address.

The NCTS won't have details of who imported the car, you need a receipt showing you just bought it from the guy on the V5C or someone else . Then your main problem would be proof of when it was imported.

whatever, wait until it's 30 yrs old.

You aren't entitled to sell a foreign registered car in Ireland.

vintagevet

Was there be less scrutiny and hassle if I waited until it was 30 years old?????
Or do all the same criteria and red tape still apply?

Isambard

the VRT would be much less if you could avoid the penalties

kaizersoze

Is it not the case that a non-running car cannot be VRT'd or tested so it couldn't have been done when brought in originally?
Is the car a runner now?
If it was could he now get it cleared?
What is it btw?

vintagevet

kaizersoze wrote: »

Is it not the case that a non-running car cannot be VRT'd or tested so it couldn't have been done when brought in originally?
Is the car a runner now?
If it was could he now get it cleared?
What is it btw?

I might be talking ****e, but I think even a non runner must be VRT’d on import ???????
It can be trailed to the NCT center, But your right it cannot be tested.

Isambard

kaizersoze wrote: »

Is it not the case that a non-running car cannot be VRT'd or tested so it couldn't have been done when brought in originally?
Is the car a runner now?
If it was could he now get it cleared?
What is it btw?

indeed that is true but no allowance is made in Law for actually clearing it when it is a runner. Penalties would still apply back to the date of import. The best advice when importing a non runner is "don't"

Marcusm

vintagevet wrote: »

I might be talking ****e, but I think even a non runner must be VRT’d on import ???????
It can be trailed to the NCT center, But your right it cannot be tested.

Isambard wrote: »

indeed that is true but no allowance is made in Law for actually clearing it when it is a runner. Penalties would still apply back to the date of import. The best advice when importing a non runner is "don't"

Vintagevet, you are correct that you are talking sh1te. VRT arises on the importation or a mechanically propeller vehicle which is capable of propulsion. Based on the OP’s post, a VRT liability did not arise on importation. Now that it is running it is eligible to be registered and VRT paid on its current value. Isambard: how can interest or penalties arise when no liability to tax arises?

Isambard

there's no provision for tax to be calculated from a nebulous date that a vehicle became self-propelled, only from the date of import.

_ptashek_

How about going to the source, instead of speculation?

All motor vehicles in the State must be registered within 30 days of the date they first arrive in the State

You will pay additional VRT if you fail to register the vehicle within 30 days. This usually arises where evidence of the date the vehicle entered the State is not produced.

And if the vehicle passed through an Irish port, Revenue is well aware that it's in the state (there's cameras at every port exit). I've imported an old Benz in 2017, and they had a record of that UK reg rolling off of the ferry - exact date and time!

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-and-registration.aspx

There's some exceptions, none of which apply in this case.

Marcusm

Isambard wrote: »

there's no provision for tax to be calculated from a nebulous date that a vehicle became self-propelled, only from the date of import.

There is no way to register a non-functioning vehicle so a taxing point did not arise. When it is functional, it must be registered before it is driven on the road. The tax point arises at the point if registration.

Marcusm

_ptashek_ wrote: »

How about going to the source, instead of speculation?

All motor vehicles in the State must be registered within 30 days of the date they first arrive in the State

You will pay additional VRT if you fail to register the vehicle within 30 days. This usually arises where evidence of the date the vehicle entered the State is not produced.

And if the vehicle passed through an Irish port, Revenue is well aware that it's in the state (there's cameras at every port exit). I've imported an old Benz in 2017, and they had a record of that UK reg rolling off of the ferry - exact date and time!

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-and-registration.aspx

There's some exceptions, none of which apply in this case.

I’m willing to put down a good bet that I am right (with 30 years of experience dealing with tax law). If you want to cite the source, you might be better addressing yourself to the law rather than the Revenue’s consumer guide (not even the guide for professionals, I.e. the Tax & Duty Manuals).

The law is here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/documents/vrt/finance-act-1992-non-statutory-consolidation.pdf

Isambard

Marcusm wrote: »

There is no way to register a non-functioning vehicle so a taxing point did not arise. When it is functional, it must be registered before it is driven on the road. The tax point arises at the point if registration.

you miss the point. There is an obligation to VRT on any car within 30 days of import or penalties apply.It's the importers responsibilty to ensure that the correct tax can be levied and if the car is incomplete, it can't be.

You're inventing your own rules by saying that the tax point arises when it is registered, in fact the tax point is quite clearly at the date of import.

Put simply the Law does not make allowances for incomplete vehicles. It should do I know, but it doesn't

Marcusm

Isambard wrote: »

you miss the point. There is an obligation to VRT on any car within 30 days of import or penalties apply.It's the importers responsibilty to ensure that the correct tax can be levied and if the car is incomplete, it can't be.

You're inventing your own rules by saying that the tax point arises when it is registered, in fact the tax point is quite clearly at the date of import.

Put simply the Law does not make allowances for incomplete vehicles. It should do I know, but it doesn't

The definition of “mechanically propelled vehicle” requires that it is capable of propulsion. See the definition extracted from Finance Act 1992 (as amended below). A “vehicle” which is not capable of propulsion at the date of importation is not eligible to be registered and a liability to VRat does not arise at the point. This is not simple but it is evident and I am capable of pointing you to the pertinent legal provision.


[“mechanically propelled vehicle” means a vehicle that –
(a) has been designed and constructed for road use,
(b) is, at the time of declaration for registration, in compliance with any measures
taken to give effect in the State to any act of the European Communities relating to the approximation of the laws of Member States in respect of type-approval for the type of vehicle concerned,
(c) is intended or adapted for propulsion by a mechanical means, or by an electrical means or by a partly mechanical and a partly electrical means, and
(d) [is capable of achieving vehicle propulsion at the time of registration or at the time of examination by a competent person under section 135D(1)(d), to the satisfaction of the Commissioners,]12

tedpan

kaizersoze wrote:

What is it btw?

Bump!