Wife has told me solicitor's letter is in the post to me

bunglemark2

To start with, I recognise the marriage is basically over. We coexist, just about. Two kids, pretty large outstanding mortgage and no significant savings between us.
The marriage has been dead for a few years but we're basically stuck. Either way, she went to a solicitor and told me I'll be getting a letter addressed to me and to get my own solicitor. At this stage I don't know whether this is a notice of judicial separation or intent to separate, but it's leading one direction only.
There's no hope for mediation, nothing left to save. So just get on with it, I hear you say. And you're probably right.
Thing is, after years of pumping thousands every month into a joint account, doing 90% or more of cooking, laundry, kids stuff, paying off her credit card at least once, a deposit for her car, holidays, household appliances etc. etc. I will be the one who ends up trying to find a hovel I can afford and still paying maintenance. The maintenance for kids I adore is not the issue, but feeling shafted here. She went job sharing for the second time this year so money is down - not my decision, purely hers.
I am so angry and frustrated her because as far as I can see, everything will be loaded in her favour. She'll never consent to sell the house and "unsettle the kids even more", even though that wouldn't give either of us a huge amount to buy separate houses. So what the hell am I supposed to do here???

LegacyUser

See a solicitor and talk to her about what she wants in this next phase of her life, she may be very happy to give you parenting responsibility if you do a deal on the house now and give her her freedom. Don't give up so easily, gender doesn't always dictate how this plays out!
Best of luck

LegacyUser

bunglemark2 wrote: »

So what the hell am I supposed to do here???

Get a solicitor.

wiggle16

You need to get a solicitor and you need to engage with her, is what you need to do.

Did she blindside you with this out of the blue, or have you talked about/agreed to separate previously?

You're clearly quite bitter about how the marriage worked out and the effort you put into it, and that's understandable - but it's not relevant now. You're acting like she's "won" before it's even started and seem convinced there's nothing you can do because she's going to get everything anyway. I don't mean to be harsh, but I have to be blunt here: if you keep wallowing over the fact you've got a raw deal out of this marriage, then you are going to end up getting a raw deal in the separation.

Go and get a solicitor. Then you are on equal ground to engage with her, and that's what you need to do first and foremost.

I'm sorry things worked out for you this way but I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide to do.

aloneforever99

Definitely get a solicitor.

I haven't been through this so I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's the case that if you share custody 50:50 you wouldn't pay maintenance and you would get to maintain more of a relationship with your kids.

You would need at least a two-bedroom place of your own I guess for that to work.

Mediation might not be possible to save the marriage, but perhaps it is possible to make the separation less bitter and painful and above all, less hard on the kids.

mitresize5

Under no circumstances move out of the house until you have an agreement in place that works for both of you and the kids.

No matter what anyone says else says the cards are stacked against you as a man. My sister is a family law solicitor and I have two very close friends who have gone through the process and come out on the wrong side of it.

Don't just get a solicitor, get a good one, a dog who will get down and dirty on your behalf if needed.

bunglemark2

Thanks for the replies so far folks. I think a lot will depend on the contents of the letter yet to arrive - separation agreement; judicial separation; mediation etc. I don't know enough yet to know which way this will pan out. Obviously the less the solicitors are involved, the less expensive this is likely to be at the end of the day....assuming there is 'some' way to mutually agree on next steps. I had a brief chat this morning with a solicitor to check a few google searches - a court 'could' issue an order that the house is not sold until the youngest is 23 - 12 years from now!
Assuming a divorce by that time, then it at least gives some chance of starting again, though by that time it's more than likely impossible either of us would either get mortgage approval or afford a place each. By law, they back the mediation route rather than solicitor's letters if there's any way to reach agreement
Interested on that point to hear from the experience of others, maybe those that mitresize5 refers to. Are these (blokes ?) still in rented accommodation? Did it take long to get set up independently? Just curious, not nosey...

wiggle16

bunglemark2 wrote: »

. Obviously the less the solicitors are involved, the less expensive this is likely to be at the end of the day....assuming there is 'some' way to mutually agree on next steps.

It's going to be more expensive in the long run if you don't get a solicitor on your side ASAP.

Telling you out of nowhere that there is a letter from her solicitor in the post does not sound like the actions of someone who values mutual agreements or negotiation. I'm not trying to frighten you or rile you up, but you need to get a handle on this and make yourself aware of your options and how the process works - ie, get a solicitor to whom you can bring that letter for advice.

I'm not saying go in guns blazing or fight fire with fire here either - plenty of couples separate cooperatively with none of this blindsiding one another with letters. It just looks like she's starting as she means to go on and if she's involving a solicitor from the get go, like this, then you need to do likewise.

mitresize5

bunglemark2 wrote: »

Interested on that point to hear from the experience of others, maybe those that mitresize5 refers to. Are these (blokes ?) still in rented accommodation? Did it take long to get set up independently? Just curious, not nosey...

Yes - both in rented accommodation. The situations diverge completely after that, in the first instance they more or less share custody as his ex-wife acknowledges the need for the father to be involved, he's a good man and shes a good woman. Separation as amicable as these things can be. He is certainly far less well of than he was before hand but has made the best of it. He rents a small two bed town house and even though he has the kids every weekend he pays 60e a week each for them in maintence. This was all agreed on the steps of the court.



Number 2 is an absolute nightmare. The breakup was acrimonious but the separation agreement fair. His wife decided that it wasn't fair enough and went down the court route, accusations and down right lies meant he went from having the kids three nights a week to having them one night.



Ex wife in total control of the situation. 90e a week for each child plus half of all other expenses. Ex-wife decides if/when he can see the kids outside of the one night a week. He moved out of the house before things were settled and spend a year back in his mothers box room. Ex-wife using influence to alienate kids from him.



At every stage the benefit of the doubt has been given to the ex-wife. He's not perfect but neither is she, infidelity on both sides during the marriage etc ... She chose her solicitor well, an absolute bollox by all accounts who has run rings around his two.


So get a good solicitor asap

mitresize5

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fathers-in-child-access-disputes-face-uphill-battle-lawyers-warn-37834246.html

MartyMcFly84

It's sad to see more cannot be resolved through mediation.

My parents divorce was much messier than it should have been. Initial agreements went out the window when my mother got a solicitor, so my Dad cut off communication completely and got a Barrister. The family house and an apartment was sold at the height of the recession for a fraction of todays prices. Barristers fees were a % of the property sales so they had to be sold. My Dads pension is split over two house holds. All their savings 1000s spent on Barristers and Solicitors , even things like hotels when my Dad left the house.

80% - 90% of these costs could have been saved with a bit of cop-on and proper mediation. The ones who benefit from divorce the most are solicitors and barristers. It was sad to see what should have been a comfortable retirement for them both turn into both parties about just getting by in retirement. Neither are particularly happy and are both far worse off financially.

Im not saving don't get a divorce , just if it can be done through mediation it will save more for everyone involved.

bunglemark2

bunglemark2 wrote: »

I am so angry and frustrated her because as far as I can see, everything will be loaded in her favour. She'll never consent to sell the house and "unsettle the kids even more", even though that wouldn't give either of us a huge amount to buy separate houses. So what the hell am I supposed to do here???

Work part time to reduce your earnings in tune with hers, and to give you more time with your kids. Personally I'd rather work 3 or 4 days a week and mind my family in the extra time than work more hours to pay more taxes/maintenance etc.

Don't leave the house. Get the best solicitor you can afford and be pragmatic about what really matters to you.

SSr0

This forum has me terrified. Why the fook would anyone get married?

No advice for you OP, just wishing you all the best in the future and I hope things don't turn out badly for you.

LegacyUser

why are you in a panic? I'll tell you why, because you haven't a clue what's at stake, you don't know your rights, and are terrified of the outcome. This is why you need a solicitor, you'll need one anyway so for your own sake go get one. Total costs for me over an 18 month process was €3,200 which was money well spent.

bunglemark2

No sign of the doomsday letter yet, I was expecting it yesterday or the day before but still not arrived. Couple of posters here saying "Don't leave the house" - if it's a Judicial Separation then surely that's a given i.e. one party ends up having to leave ? I'm not an expert, and can't really know what way to respond until I see what's in the notice and discuss with a solicitor. One such solicitor I did speak with informed me that it's "99% likely" I will have to leave, that at least one Circuit Court judge is on the record saying that is the decision she will make 100% of the time. That, and the wife/kids stay in situ until the youngest is 23 years of age.
The last poster here says I'm terrified of the outcome - you're right, I am. Terrified of financial ruin. Not being able to provide all that I can or want for the kids. Renting at my age. Maybe not even being able to afford a place where I can have them stay with me if they wanted to. I know many have done it before me and many will in future.

Tazium

bunglemark2 wrote: »

No sign of the doomsday letter yet, I was expecting it yesterday or the day before but still not arrived. Couple of posters here saying "Don't leave the house" - if it's a Judicial Separation then surely that's a given i.e. one party ends up having to leave ? I'm not an expert, and can't really know what way to respond until I see what's in the notice and discuss with a solicitor. One such solicitor I did speak with informed me that it's "99% likely" I will have to leave, that at least one Circuit Court judge is on the record saying that is the decision she will make 100% of the time. That, and the wife/kids stay in situ until the youngest is 23 years of age.
The last poster here says I'm terrified of the outcome - you're right, I am. Terrified of financial ruin. Not being able to provide all that I can or want for the kids. Renting at my age. Maybe not even being able to afford a place where I can have them stay with me if they wanted to. I know many have done it before me and many will in future.

Look, it's a crappy situation you're in. This letter and the anxious wait aren't easy. The contents of the letter are likely to sting too. The thoughts of moving on and starting over with the weight of such responsibilities as are before you are going to be weighing on your mind, getting you down and feeling quite disgruntled. On the other hand the process - cause that's what it is - will eventually end and while Irish Family law is complex, slow, and expensive it won't make you bleed. Judges must apply fairness and while it might seem one sided it rarely is. You will get through this.

It's not likely you'll be told to leave the home, it just makes more sense that you do. Your income/outgoings will require documentation and if you've got nothing, you can't be asked to give more.

Mind yourself and your sanity, before you open that letter be prepared with some friends or family nearby. You'll need their support because you'll need to vent.

You will get through this. <snip>

woodchuck

Mod note:

Tazium, although your offer to PM may be well meaning, it is strictly forbidden in this forum for the reasons outlined in the charter.

Tazium

woodchuck wrote: »

Mod note:

Tazium, although your offer to PM may be well meaning, it is strictly forbidden in this forum for the reasons outlined in the charter.

oops! Please excuse me.

C3PO

OP - I've been in a similar situation for close to five years now!
Firstly, as others have said, do not leave your home without a legal agreement in place unless you really feel that your childrens or your own physical or mental health are at risk.
Secondly, there is no need to panic - a solicitors letter is just that ... a letter! It has no legal power whatsoever! It is merely putting you under notice of your wife's intentions. Wait until it arrives, see what it contains and then take some legal advice. You will have months or even years before you are forced to leave.
I would also strongly recommend that you try mediation before going down the "full on" legal route - it will cost you a fortune if you end up in court!

LegacyUser

1. Get a solicitor this does not result in open warfare with your wife, it protects you legally.
2. Write down what you want...even if you think it's impossible
3. Find out what your wife's emotional driver is, bored with you, wants a change etc.. This can only be achieved through calm non judgemental conversation. Biting your tongue can save you thousands!
4. Welfare of children is paramount, but primary carer of the children does not necessarily have to be your wife - in my case she wanted to be free to travel, meet new people so I became primary parent.
5. Mediation is good, communication with your wife is good, don't mention the home, but a good proposal is to split the assets now
6. Solicitor, solicitor, solicitor- but if you both agree on a separation agreement (between solicitors) then court is not required.
7. It's a crap experience to go through but life improves & you'll have fun
8. Stop making assumptions that you're screwed, you are not, remember as a couple I'm sure she was draining a lot of your income anyway
9. Don't move out
10. I know of several men who kept their kids & home, (including me), I can't explain here in detail but remember a judge will focus on welfare & safety of the children so keep a diary if there's issues at home which concern you
11. Get a solicitor, a female solicitor representing a man I have found helped because it levelled things a little in the gender balance
12. You are focused on a losing outcome, you will lose something but you do gain freedom, you need to define the variety of outcomes & how you expect to cope, this will strengthen how you prepare for reaching an agreement

Good luck!

bunglemark2

Well, it's a judicial separation notice. That's pretty final

Spencer Winterbotham

Knuckleheadsgalore wrote: »

See a solicitor and talk to her about what she wants in this next phase of her life, she may be very happy to give you parenting responsibility if you do a deal on the house now and give her her freedom. Don't give up so easily, gender doesn't always dictate how this plays out!
Best of luck

This is quite unbelievable.....

What about what he wants in the next phase of his life?

She may be happy to give him some parenting responsibly? How noble of her to allow a father be a father....

Lose his bollocks on a deal on the house to allow her some freedom?

What about him?

Gender will absolutely 100% dictate how this will play out.... in her favour...

The system is rigged.

Good luck my friend.. I wish you well...

Ursus Horribilis

bunglemark2 wrote: »

Well, it's a judicial separation notice. That's pretty final

I hope you've taken everyone's advice here and have got yourself a solicitor.

WrigleysExtra

Don't mean to sound harsh but she checked out of the marriage a long time ago and you should have had the foresight so see this was going to happen down the road. Sure you were probably thinking of the kids and the impact a divorce would have on them but did you ever think about the impact on them when you're restricted in how often you can see them?
As other posters have said get a solicitor immediately and make sure it's a good one.

Becks610

Hi Op

Get a solicitor but also try mediation. The most important people here are the children. Obviously they are going to need a secure home to live in so try disrupt them as little as possible.

bunglemark2

Again, thanks for all the posts and suggestions here people. I suppose it's little comfort to anyone either in or who has gone through the same process, and I'm stating the obvious by saying the past few days have been - and continue to be - so confusing, uncertain, and guilt ridden. The eldest child knows what's happening - the guilt I feel for the child is tearing me up, the past few days filled with tears, numbness and worst of all, with no smiles at all. The youngest doesn't know yet.
I did engage with a solicitor and meet with them next week. I spoke to a few others today just to sanity check my understanding and it's pretty inevitable I'll have to move out at some point. If only to not pull the rug out from under their feet and help *them* through this with at least some stability, I couldn't do anything other than that.
She's talking today about a "separation agreement", abut mediation, agreeing civilly how this needs to move forward. The solicitor's letter says "judicial separation" though. Not sure if there's anything in that and it's probably academic anyway.
I'll say again that I'm not surprised it's come to this. I did some bad stuff in the past but put it behind me. No affairs or violence, nothing like that. I'm a difficult person to live with, no disputing that. I'm resentful I've had to do so much over the years. I more than pay my way, and more. I think the kids have been spoiled - I'm not mean, but too much is just too much - how do they learn the value of anything then? Of course I love them to bits.
So as above, I'm preparing for the future, moving out, finding a hovel to live in, paying someone else's pension fund, getting older and then unlikely to be able to get a mortgage when I'm closer to 60 than not.
The whole thing is crap.

zapper55

Op I really wouldn't move out.

Also re the kids being spoilt theres not much use going back over what you could have done differently. You could blame her but it sounds like you were quite passive about it. And it'll only drive you mad to rehash things.

mitresize5

Please dont move out until you have a signed separation agreement agreed via mediation or a court order that meets your needs regarding rights and access to your kids.

Your wife wants you out and its the only bargaining chip you have, leave beforehand and you have handed over all power and rights to her

1874

WrigleysExtra wrote: »

Don't mean to sound harsh but she checked out of the marriage a long time ago and you should have had the foresight so see this was going to happen down the road. Sure you were probably thinking of the kids and the impact a divorce would have on them but did you ever think about the impact on them when you're restricted in how often you can see them?
As other posters have said get a solicitor immediately and make sure it's a good one.

Ok, I agree, but, how do you actually get a good solicitor for this? how will you know if they are good?
oh and OP
Dont move out, why would you? Ive a relative who did that, and IMO they ended up worse off as they just did what the other person wanted them to do.

wiggle16

OP hasn't been back since last month.

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