2 yr old parents told to bring him for thearpy due to behaviour

redcatstar

My grandson is 26 months and at creche they have told his parents to bring him for thearpy due to biting, pushing ,throwing and the use of one bad word when angry. One to one he is great and a good boy but he does have lots of energy and can become angry over toys etc. Any advice, should creche not be the ones to refer him

Big Bag of Chips

I don't think anyone in the crèche would be qualified to refer a child to services. Referrals are usually done by PHN or GP.

If the school are noticing behaviour in your grandchild that is not typical for his age group then his parents would be wise to have it investigated. It could be nothing. But it could be something. And if it is something, early intervention is vital.

Oink

I would listen to them. They think he could use a bit of help, so better safe than sorry. It could do him a world of good if he’s struggling.

They have no power to refer a child to a specialist.

redcatstar

Were or who do you go to get help, my daughter was crying today , creche just said this and offered no solution or even a chat about this probem

Angliru

Ah jesus she was only crying, kids cry all the time. Hardly a problem if it is a once off thing.

Effects

Angliru wrote: »

Ah jesus she was only crying, kids cry all the time. Hardly a problem if it is a once off thing.

She means her adult daughter was crying, the mother of the child.

Effects

redcatstar wrote: »

Were or who do you go to get help

GP I'd imagine, who can make a referral.

Big Bag of Chips

GP or make an appointment with local PHN. Ring local HSE community care office for details if your daughter doesn't already have them.

Sleeper12

Creche definitely can't refer him. They can't tell you that he may be autistic, ADHD etc despite their experience because they are not qualified. They may be gently pushing you in the right direction to get an early diagnosis rather than wait for him to start school.

They might also be totally wrong

glen123

Make an appointment with the local PHN (describe the situation in advance to see if maybe they could invite a development doctor to that meeting). Ask the creche for a letter describing their observations - ideally it should contain positives and negatives and bring this letter to that appointment. PHN or the doctor (if present) will then decide what's the best course of action.

However, the waiting times for assessments are pretty lengthy and while you are doing all this, you can apply for Assessment of Need. On a paper, it says they must do smth after 3 months. In reality, again waiting times are lengthy, but here there will be options to complain which should speed up things.

Private therapies (occupational therapy) cost around 80-100eur per hour so if family can afford this, this could be an option too while waiting on HSE stuff.

Creche may also be able to get AIM support for him. Have a chat with them:
http://aim.gov.ie/sample-sub-page/

It may be all upsetting especially for his mother, but he is young and with the right help and approach it can all be fixed or improved. Some kids just need a bit of extra help.

P.S. - if it transpires that your grandson needs extra care e.g. therapies etc, your daughter should look into applying for:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/disability_and_illness/domiciliary_care_allowance.html

This is not means tested, and it's a monthly payment given to children that have needs higher than other children of the same age. This isn't based on diagnosis but extra needs. It's not easy to get it and takes 3 months to get the initial No or Yes (then review and appeal if necessary) but getting it would cover some of the private costs if you decide to take that root. There is a group on FB called DCA Warriors - she can always join the group if she needs more advice about this payment as well as various other info in general regarding therapies and approach with HSE, etc.

Good luck and try not to worry too much!

Totes

Hi op

My daughter has gone to 2 crèches - the first was awful (little stuff but it all added up to a poor overall experience) but I did not realise this until we moved county & we changed to the second creche. If the creche is not great at managing these issues I would put little store by their opinion on behaviour especially when it’s about a wobbler/toddler. However if you have a niggling feeling that your child is not thriving / happy in this environment based on my own experience I would move now maybe to a smaller group situation like childminder etc that may suit your child better.
Wishing u the best

See this is your grandson not son, sorry for ‘your child’ reference in my reply.

lawred2

redcatstar wrote: »

My grandson is 26 months and at creche they have told his parents to bring him for thearpy due to biting, pushing ,throwing and the use of one bad word when angry. One to one he is great and a good boy but he does have lots of energy and can become angry over toys etc. Any advice, should creche not be the ones to refer him

Therapy can sound a bit overwhelming..

Are you sure it wasn't play therapy that was suggested?

Either way the child is two.. it could be an entirely normal stage in their development. Our eldest who is five now was a constant stream of bad reports from creche. Play therapy was suggested and we toyed with it. Didn't do anything in the end but moved him to a larger creche with more boys his age... he's developed perfectly well since.

Play therapy isn't necessarily anything to be too fearful of.

neris

Creche can always refer to Tusla about the childs behaviour. Unfortunatley the creche staff are not trained to deal with behavioural issues in a professional capacity and with other children to mind its not possible to give 1 to 1 care. The creche are more then likely advising the parents to have the child assessed rather then saying it needs therapy.

ArrBee

Without experience of the crèche in question it's hard to say how much they should be listened to.
Some crèche's will be better than others at genuinely identifying issues, and others still might choose to not have that hard conversation with a parent.

I know in the crèche that my kids went to they were very astute at identifying issues (as corroborated by professional service providers) and they were not "quick to assume the worst".
I put this down to many years seeing many kids go through the service and building a pretty accurate picture of "normal behaviors".

In some ways they *may* even be in a better position than some professionals as in the crèche they see the full gamut of kids as opposed only those that have been referred.

Having said that, I can imagine that some crèches are aren't as good as others so it's hard to advise.

Bottom line, don't be surprised if the crèche is right and treat this as a good thing. Ignoring issues wont help anyone.

tretorn

Little boys a lot of time dont do well in creche. The staff prefer little biddable girls and not rowdy boys who need activity. The staff is also entirely female and many young creche staff just dont relate to boys well.

Your daughter might be better off finding a good childminder or if possible taking a few years off work to take care of her child herself.

And, no, it most certainly is not the creches role to take responsibility if there is a problem. It sounds like they are fed up with your grandsons behaviour, biting is actually very serious and other parents are probably complaining. I had my children in a creche when they were young and I would have hit the roof if my child was bitten, what are the creche doing to supervise your grandchild, surely he hasnt bitten more than once.

Be prepared for the creche having a conversation with you about finding alternative daycare for him, it would be good to have a back up plan in place.

lawred2

tretorn wrote: »

Little boys a lot of time dont do well in creche. The staff prefer little biddable girls and not rowdy boys who need activity. The staff is also entirely female and many young creche staff just dont relate to boys well.

Your daughter might be better off finding a good childminder or if possible taking a few years off work to take care of her child herself.

And, no, it most certainly is not the creches role to take responsibility if there is a problem. It sounds like they are fed up with your grandsons behaviour, biting is actually very serious and other parents are probably complaining. I had my children in a creche when they were young and I would have hit the roof if my child was bitten, what are the creche doing to supervise your grandchild, surely he hasnt bitten more than once.

Be prepared for the creche having a conversation with you about finding alternative daycare for him, it would be good to have a back up plan in place.

you kind of swung wildly between appearing supportive of the young lad to the polar opposite in that post..

Biting happens at that age - it's not remotely unusual. Hitting the roof would be a ridiculous reaction as any child is capable of doing it.

tretorn

Biting isnt that usual, I have a big family and came from a big family and have lots of cousins and they have lots of children and none have ever bitten anyone.

If your children bit each other lawred then thats your normal, its not mine and I would have complained to the creche manager if it ever happened to my child. Think yourself how you would feel if one of your colleagues sunk his teeth into your arm, I cant imagine you would be shrugging that off but then you say to a toddler this is no big deal.

Its an extremely aggressive thing to do and the creche staff should be supervising this child closely. And, yes, my children never hit, pushed or bit other children while in creche and I would expect creche staff to take care of my children the way I did myself so if a biter is on the loose then someone supervises him properly.

Im not supportive of any behaviour that affects other children but yes, creche life often does not suit little boys who are a lot of work. They would be better off being minded on one to one, preferably by their parents or failing that a childminder who has a garden they can let off stem in. This child sounds very frustrated and angry and he has probably become the bold boy in the creche and is a pain in the ass for low paid staff who are probably planning on how to expel him.

lawred2

tretorn wrote: »

Biting isnt that usual, I have a big family and came from a big family and have lots of cousins and they have lots of children and none have ever bitten anyone.

If your children bit each other lawred then thats your normal, its not mine and I would have complained to the creche manager if it ever happened to my child. Think yourself how you would feel if one of your colleagues sunk his teeth into your arm, I cant imagine you would be shrugging that off but then you say to a toddler this is no big deal.

Its an extremely aggressive thing to do and the creche staff should be supervising this child closely. And, yes, my children never hit, pushed or bit other children while in creche and I would expect creche staff to take care of my children the way I did myself so if a biter is on the loose then someone supervises him properly.

Im not supportive of any behaviour that affects other children but yes, creche life often does not suit little boys who are a lot of work. They would be better off being minded on one to one, preferably by their parents or failing that a childminder who has a garden they can let off stem in. This child sounds very frustrated and angry and he has probably become the bold boy in the creche and is a pain in the ass for low paid staff who are probably planning on how to expel him.

I'm sorry - I stopped reading there :rolleyes:

tretorn

Pushing, biting , throwing, I dont think you would like to spend your day in an environment like that either. I feel so sorry for children who spend almost all their waking hours in creche land, imagine what the stress levels of the gentle timid children are like.

Anyway, back to the OP.

I would take the creches advice and seek professional help immediately. This is not normal behaviour for children and your daughter needs to get a handle on it herself or get a professional to give advice.

I would look for alternative childcare too, your grandchild has probably burnt too many bridges with the creche so a fresh start might be good for him, thats if his behaviour can be improved, if not a new childcre arrangement will be negative too.

lawred2

tretorn wrote: »

Pushing, biting , throwing, I dont think you would like to spend your day in an environment like that either. I feel so sorry for children who spend almost all their waking hours in creche land, imagine what the stress levels of the gentle timid children are like.

Anyway, back to the OP.

I would take the creches advice and seek professional help immediately. This is not normal behaviour for children and your daughter needs to get a handle on it herself or get a professional to give advice.

I would look for alternative childcare too, your grandchild has probably burnt too many bridges with the creche so a fresh start might be good for him, thats if his behaviour can be improved, if not a new childcre arrangement will be negative too.

You're jumping the shark really with this emotive stuff. And it serves little purpose. That's your interpretation of the environment that the OP has introduced. There is no such evidence that the creche is like that. And no one bar you has attempted to paint it as such.

Biting happens at that age. In even the best run creches. Your reaction is way over the top and quite vindictive in tone and content.

neris

tretorn wrote: »

Pushing, biting , throwing, I dont think you would like to spend your day in an environment like that either. I feel so sorry for children who spend almost all their waking hours in creche land, imagine what the stress levels of the gentle timid children are like.

what are you trying to imply there?? You make it sound like theyre caged up and left to fend for themselves for the day. Alot of children whove been attending creche for a period of time enjoy it and see the creche as a 2nd home

JCDUB

tretorn wrote: »

Little boys a lot of time dont do well in creche. The staff prefer little biddable girls and not rowdy boys who need activity. The staff is also entirely female and many young creche staff just dont relate to boys well.

Your daughter might be better off finding a good childminder or if possible taking a few years off work to take care of her child herself.

And, no, it most certainly is not the creches role to take responsibility if there is a problem. It sounds like they are fed up with your grandsons behaviour, biting is actually very serious and other parents are probably complaining. I had my children in a creche when they were young and I would have hit the roof if my child was bitten, what are the creche doing to supervise your grandchild, surely he hasnt bitten more than once.

Be prepared for the creche having a conversation with you about finding alternative daycare for him, it would be good to have a back up plan in place.

Jesus wept. OP do not listen to any of this post, it's completely ill informed.

On point of young female crèche staff not relating to boys, absolute rubbish. If this is the case (which I'm 100% positive it's not, as a crèche with this level of staff engagement wouldn't last 6 months,) staff are not trained properly and/or don't care enough. Time to move crèche.

On recommendation for parent to "take a few years off work," this is laughable, and a completely out of touch suggestion, for many reasons. The main one being the parent obviously needs to work and therefore must place the child in childcare. "Taking a few years off work" is not an option for 99% of parents, and I presume this is the case for the OP, as their child is already in childcare, and wouldn't be if they had other options.

On point of "hitting the roof" if a child was bitten in crèche, get over yourself. It happens up and down the country every day in crèches. It's a fact of children growing up, they play, they fall, they get back up, they grab, they scratch, they bite. Whether intentional or not, it happens. If it is happening often then crèche have a responsibility to prevent it.

On the point of crèche suggesting "finding alternative daycare," this is also rubbish. If they do make this suggestion after what seems like an isolated incident they are clearly not invested in the child's development and are looking for an easy life.

OP advise your daughter to engage with crèche and take on board their advice, while asking them what plan they have in place to monitor and record his behaviours so that there's a record available for professionals if required.

Best of luck

tretorn

Creche Care doesnt suit a lot of little boys, it suits girls who like to sit and colour and therefore make the creche staffs job easier.

Creche Staff are very badly paid and usually working in creches because they havent a lot of other options regarding work, hence points required for childcare courses are very low.

This doesnt sound like isolated incidences, if it was the creche staff could manage this childs behaviour or you would hope they could given the amount the owners of the creches are charging.

We have a huge problem with mental health problems in children and young teenagers and a lot of this is down to children spending long hours in unsuitable day care staffed by badly paid uninterested staff. The truth always hurts and no one cares about children.

At least this creche is taking some action, in some creches staff would say nothing and just sit it out and if other parents shrug their shoulders and say biting in par for the course then creche staff will do nothing. They wouldnt do nothing if it was my child though being bitten though, I would kick up such a fuss.

tretorn

neris wrote: »

what are you trying to imply there?? You make it sound like theyre caged up and left to fend for themselves for the day. Alot of children whove been attending creche for a period of time enjoy it and see the creche as a 2nd home

Dont be silly, you might say this to make yourself feel better.

How would you like to spend your day in a small room with an unhappy person pushing, shoving and maybe biting you.

Were you institutionalised in a creche growing up, how can you say what a child likes, most children would rather spend their day with parents rather than with badly paid strangers who for the most part are doing thisjob becasue they arent qualified to do anything else. The turnover in creches is very high, who would blame creche staff for running for the hills, I wouldnt last five minutes and nor would most people, hence the low points for childcare courses.

lawred2

tretorn wrote: »

Dont be silly, you might say this to make yourself feel better.

How would you like to spend your day in a small room with an unhappy person pushing, shoving and maybe biting you.

Were you institutionalised in a creche growing up, how can you say what a child likes, most children would rather spend their day with parents rather than with badly paid strangers who for the most part are doing thisjob becasue they arent qualified to do anything else. The turnover in creches is very high, who would blame creche staff for running for the hills, I wouldnt last five minutes and nor would most people, hence the low points for childcare courses.

are digging for a response or something?

what do you mean 'unhappy person' - how are you remotely qualified to come to such a conclusion about a 2 year old you know nothing about? Poor lad. I hope that there aren't more parents like you out there only so eager to judge 2 year old children in such a vindictive manner.

querying whether someone was 'institutionalized in a creche'..

you don't seem to be here to offer anything remotely constructive..

iamwhoiam

tretorn wrote: »

Creche Care doesnt suit a lot of little boys, it suits girls who like to sit and colour and therefore make the creche staffs job easier.

Creche Staff are very badly paid and usually working in creches because they havent a lot of other options regarding work, hence points required for childcare courses are very low.

This doesnt sound like isolated incidences, if it was the creche staff could manage this childs behaviour or you would hope they could given the amount the owners of the creches are charging.

We have a huge problem with mental health problems in children and young teenagers and a lot of this is down to children spending long hours in unsuitable day care staffed by badly paid uninterested staff. The truth always hurts and no one cares about children.

At least this creche is taking some action, in some creches staff would say nothing and just sit it out and if other parents shrug their shoulders and say biting in par for the course then creche staff will do nothing. They wouldnt do nothing if it was my child though being bitten though, I would kick up such a fuss.

What utter nonsense

tretorn

Happy children dont push, shove, throw things and bite.

Do you need things spelt out to you.

This child is utterly miserable in this environment as he cant cope with it.

Something needs to be done ASAP as all this is very damaging for him and may contribute to mental health issues in the teenage years and at that stage many problems are much more difficult to tackle.

As I said our children and teenagers mental health difficulties are now at crisis levels and much of this is to do with poor childcare as infants and toddlers. I think at this stage we have the fourth highest rate of teenage suicide in Europe, time to take the heads out of the sand.

tretorn

iamwhoiam wrote: »

What utter nonsense

What do you think is causing mental health problems in our young people.

Apart from blaming Facebook and Instagram have you any theories.

Have you even the tiniest littlest niggling suspicion that creches staffed with badly paid people might be detrimental to a developing child.

iamwhoiam

tretorn wrote: »

What do you think is causing mental health problems in our young people.

Apart from blaming Facebook and Instagram have you any theories.

Have you even the tiniest littlest niggling suspicion that creches staffed with badly paid people might be detrimental to a developing child.

So , any links to studied done on the effects of creche on kids .Any links on research or even a study done by a professional .?

lawred2

iamwhoiam wrote: »

So , any links to studied done on the effects of creche on kids .Any links on research or even a study done by a professional .?

Shur we don't care for experts any more. We're tired of them.

We go with feelings now.

Bacchus

In summary...

OP: Creche has reported some behavioral issues with my grandson... any advice.
.
.
.
tretorn: My dissertation on the correlation between the salaries of creche employees and the state of mental health of the nation's children.

That escalated quickly.

OP, if you're concerned about the behaviour go to your public health nurse or GP. Try to talk to the creche staff too, to see if you can identify any specific triggers for the bahaviour. Also worth checking how long this has been happening for. Your grandson is the same age as our daughter and it's just that age were they can go from zero to meltdown in an instant. We've figured out some of the triggers and try to help her through it as best we can when she does get upset, but we know this phase will pass in time.

gctest50

tretorn wrote: »

The staff prefer little biddable girls and not rowdy boys .

Do they now ? Fascinating


All creche staff in all Ireland or is it an international study you have ?

Apiarist

redcatstar wrote: »

My grandson is 26 months and at creche they have told his parents to bring him for thearpy ....

Well, they cannot tell the parents to bring him to therapy. However, it may be a good idea nonetheless to get the kid tested for ADHD or other behavioural issues by a psychologist.

If it turns out that your grandson is fine, then it could be that this particular creche is not suitable for him. If he has ADHD, then there are specific ways to manage it which staff in the creche should know. Or they can apply for a Special Need Assistant to work with them.

In any case, doing nothing in this case is a bad idea.

redcatstar

Wow , what a read that was , mostly great advice thank you for , you know who you are, I may be the op but I also have worked with children for over 30 years, and in truth I have never met a child who behaved well 100% of the time, nor would I expect it, I would be worried more about that 1 well behaved child than I would of those who try to pull the wool over our eyes or hit ,kick, scream etc.
Now we are talking about a 2 yr old not Suarez the footballer who likes to bite, all children need to feel their way in life, everyone gets angry etc it's an emotion That We All Have. Now back to my grandson lovely adorable lively emotional child that he is, app has been made with phn, creche have been rang and I agree he might need play therapy or speech lanaguage therapy, I am emotionally involved in this that is why I posted this

iamwhoiam

redcatstar wrote: »

Wow , what a read that was , mostly great advice thank you for , you know who you are, I may be the op but I also have worked with children for over 30 years, and in truth I have never met a child who behaved well 100% of the time, nor would I expect it, I would be worried more about that 1 well behaved child than I would of those who try to pull the wool over our eyes or hit ,kick, scream etc.
Now we are talking about a 2 yr old not Suarez the footballer who likes to bite, all children need to feel their way in life, everyone gets angry etc it's an emotion That We All Have. Now back to my grandson lovely adorable lively emotional child that he is, app has been made with phn, creche have been rang and I agree he might need play therapy or speech lanaguage therapy, I am emotionally involved in this that is why I posted this

A suggestion is maybe to get his hearing tested too . Often if they can't hear properly it frustrates them and they show it in bad behaviour

byhookorbycrook

This thread has become unhelpful. Closing it .