Cow kicking foster calf

jd06

Hi all, iv a cow lost a calf last week but I got a foster calf to replace
I put the cow in a head gate with nuts ,as soon as the calf starts sucking she starts kicking and she's getting worse as time goes on
The calf is in the pen with her all day and she doesn't mind her at all

Any tips on what to do
Tia

Lady Haywire

I'd tie a leg back for a start & make life easier for the calf.
Been a while since we fostered a calf here but we used to put sugar or molasses on them so the cow would lick it. Have heard salt works too.
And patience. Lots and lots of patience.

148multi

jd06 wrote: »

Hi all, iv a cow lost a calf last week but I got a foster calf to replace
I put the cow in a head gate with nuts ,as soon as the calf starts sucking she starts kicking and she's getting worse as time goes on
The calf is in the pen with her all day and she doesn't mind her at all

Any tips on what to do
Tia

Would always skin dead calf

Limestone Cowboy

148multi wrote: »

Would always skin dead calf

+1.

jd06

148multi wrote: »

Would always skin dead calf

Ya probably should have done that, but it's too late now.
Thanks

Never wrestle with pigs

Get a set of dairy shackles and put them on her for a few days. All ways puts manners on them.

jd06

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Get a set of dairy shackles and put them on her for a few days. All ways puts manners on them.

What are dairy shackles

patsy_mccabe

jd06 wrote: »

What are dairy shackles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Hbx0bLNVo

Just don't read the comments.

L1985

Take the calf away from her and let it in two or three times a day the first couple of days. Tie her leg as suggested above so the calf gets confident in drinking. She might need to be milked out as well as she could be sore. It usually works after a week but she might have got in the habit of kicking as well so that needs to be broken. After a week leave the calf with her again but put him into her slhubgry. Works for us

Anto_Meath

Ye if you can sprinkle meal on the calf or even some of her own milk and she will lick it off. Often find if you lift one of the front feet then she cant kick. We have an old cow byre and the only time we had to adopt a calf on to a cow we tied the cow in a stall with the calf for a week or so and she was fine with him then, it does take a bit of time and a lot of patience.

_Brian

This has never really felt a worthwhile experience to me, stress on man and beast and huge time sink, likely when other cows calving etc.

Never wrestle with pigs

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Hbx0bLNVo

Just don't read the comments.

Ya that's them. When a cow goes down they sometimes put them on for a few days. It stops her taking big steps and stops her slipping agin. Good job for fostering as they can't kick the calf.

grassroot1

Did you check is her elder ok
I stopped buying calves for cows that lost a calf a few years ago. Best decision ever and your not bringing in a new strain of scour either.
If a cow or heifer has a dead calf she is marked as a cull and a maiden heifer is kept in her place. Its not worth the trouble.

We always get a foster calf if we lose one, for the sake of a bit of work you have money coming because of it which you wouldn’t otherwise when sale time comes. We never have much trouble getting calves fostered, have lost a calf pretty much every year and two last year so got two foster calves.

We would never cull a cow just because a calf was lost, we would have culled a lot of good cows over the years doing that.

Westernrock

Always cull a cow that has lost a calf, some would get a foster calf but still be culled. There’s enough trouble without keeping trouble! Nearly always a reason the calf was lost, bad calver or poor colostrum/ not enough milk etc. At the end of the day the cows only job is to produce and rear a saleable calf, and I never had anyone offer to buy the dead ones.

Dunedin

grassroot1 wrote: »

Did you check is her elder ok
I stopped buying calves for cows that lost a calf a few years ago. Best decision ever and your not bringing in a new strain of scour either.
If a cow or heifer has a dead calf she is marked as a cull and a maiden heifer is kept in her place. Its not worth the trouble.

+10000

Life’s too short for that craic.

Gudstock

Have found that when cows own calf or afterbirth not available that covering the foster calf in the cows dung or urine really can help.

squinn2912

We’d skin the calf too always works.
Be very careful to keep an eye on her for a long while afterwards. Two years ago we had one that took to the drop calf and she quit letting him suck about a month later. Ended up an awful handlin. Prob best job to cull but I’d hate doing it with a young or good cow

Albert Johnson

Izaiah Careful Headboard wrote: »

We always get a foster calf if we lose one, for the sake of a bit of work you have money coming because of it which you wouldn’t otherwise when sale time comes. We never have much trouble getting calves fostered, have lost a calf pretty much every year and two last year so got two foster calves.

We would never cull a cow just because a calf was lost, we would have culled a lot of good cows over the years doing that.

If the above system is working then I'm not going to knock it and more power to you. However if I remember correctly the figures show that only roughly 80% of suckler cows calve down every 12 months and I'd imagine even less actually produce a saleable weanling. There are a few of the above view points that I would argue against.

My understanding of sucklers is that a suckler cow's only means of covering her cost to keep over the year is through producing a weanling. If she fails to produce a saleable calf then she is a burden upon the system and should be culled. Therefore the cost of her keep for the previous 12 months can be met by her sale price. A heifer calf or other suitable replacement can then be kept in her place if desired. In many cases the calf's death may be through calving difficulties or poor colostrum which is related to the cow and is another reason not to keep her again. As suckler farming becomes increasingly a part time farmer's game I struggle to see how adding complexity to the system by attempting to foster calves onto cows is a good use of already limited spare time.

In regards to the comment about all the "good" cows that would be culled by this form of management I would like to point out that the word good has many meanings. A suckler cow that fails to produce a saleable weanling has failed at her one purpose and is therefore not a "good" cow imo. I think it was Arthur Bredin who used to tell a story about a large magnificent pure bred AA cow he encountered in a man's yard one day. She was looking across a gate at the bottom of the haggard and Arthur passed comment upon her during the conversation. Her owner was delighted with such praise and Bredin stated that he'd love to see a calf out of her to see how she bred. The man told him "she'd no calf the last 2 years but she's a great cow", a great ornament indeed but not a commercial success.

Jb1989

Albert Johnson wrote: »

If the above system is working then I'm not going to knock it and more power to you. However if I remember correctly the figures show that only roughly 80% of suckler cows calve down every 12 months and I'd imagine even less actually produce a saleable weanling. There are a few of the above view points that I would argue against.

My understanding of sucklers is that a suckler cow's only means of covering her cost to keep over the year is through producing a weanling. If she fails to produce a saleable calf then she is a burden upon the system and should be culled. Therefore the cost of her keep for the previous 12 months can be met by her sale price. A heifer calf or other suitable replacement can then be kept in her place if desired. In many cases the calf's death may be through calving difficulties or poor colostrum which is related to the cow and is another reason not to keep her again. As suckler farming becomes increasingly a part time farmer's game I struggle to see how adding complexity to the system by attempting to foster calves onto cows is a good use of already limited spare time.

In regards to the comment about all the "good" cows that would be culled by this form of management I would like to point out that the word good has many meanings. A suckler cow that fails to produce a saleable weanling has failed at her one purpose and is therefore not a "good" cow imo. I think it was Arthur Bredin who used to tell a story about a large magnificent pure bred AA cow he encountered in a man's yard one day. She was looking across a gate at the bottom of the haggard and Arthur passed comment upon her during the conversation. Her owner was delighted with such praise and Bredin stated that he'd love to see a calf out of her to see how she bred. The man told him "she'd no calf the last 2 years but she's a great cow", a great ornament indeed but not a commercial success.

Guilty of similar myself until this new year, had to pull the pin and clear out rubbish and ornaments once and for all.

squinn2912

I’d be weighing it up. If I felt it was more my own fault than the cow’s I’d give her a chance. It can be a good way of getting replacement heifers out of the herd. I’ve not bought a drop calf in 3 years now which means there’s been good luck thank God and also anything not lucky wasn’t good enough to bother with. One lost twin calves a few weeks ago and I’m almost glad. She was for the road anyhow.

TITANIUM.

squinn2912 wrote: »

I’d be weighing it up. If I felt it was more my own fault than the cow’s I’d give her a chance. It can be a good way of getting replacement heifers out of the herd. I’ve not bought a drop calf in 3 years now which means there’s been good luck thank God and also anything not lucky wasn’t good enough to bother with. One lost twin calves a few weeks ago and I’m almost glad. She was for the road anyhow.

I'd be in the same camp as yourself, if I felt I let the ball drop in any regard then I'd chance her again. with well bred suckler cattle, complications can and will happen. you got to mitigate those complications as much as you can.

squinn2912

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I'd be in the same camp as yourself, if I felt I let the ball drop in any regard then I'd chance her again. with well bred suckler cattle, complications can and will happen. you got to mitigate those complications as much as you can.

I agree. After putting in a lot of effort to breed good sucklers you like to cut them some slack if circumstances meritbthat. I’m not advocating clinging on pointlessly though. Pick and choose you know your own cows

feartuath

I think the older generation were more likely to give a cow a second chance as my late father would say

He would stand over a cow for an hour morning and evening in the crush watching a foster calf trying to suck.

Nowadays they get the gate straight away.

squinn2912

feartuath wrote: »

I think the older generation were more likely to give a cow a second chance as my late father would say

He would stand over a cow for an hour morning and evening in the crush watching a foster calf trying to suck.

Nowadays they get the gate straight away.

I agree with you. At times I think we’re too business orientated. In the wrong game for that anyhow